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Evolutionist I can prove to you that what you believe (evolution) is based on illogical reasoning, i

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posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by hippomchippo
"Scientists can't explain how life came to be. There must have been a god to create the first life form."

Oops, we pretty much have that nailed now.
So now it goes to this.

"The Big Bang theory doesn't explain what caused the Big Bang. There must have been a god to set the universe in motion."

That's a massive leap of logic there Edmc2, I hope you realize that, and until we can use some sort of scientific knowledge or tools to find out what actually happened before the big bang, it's nothing but a assertion, and believing in god on an assertion is really bad thinking.

[edit on 17-7-2010 by hippomchippo]



E= mc2

That's a fantastic way to ignore my post, thanks.


Well we can delve into quantum physics and the theory of relativity but I'm trying to keep things simple.

So do you agree that the universe had a beginning then?

ty,
edmc2

By current scientific understanding, yes.
If you're going to argue the first cause argument, please don't, I've heard it many times before and is very very flawed in its thinking.




posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by Not of this Earth
reply to post by edmc^2
 


you don't belive in fairy tales yet the existance of god is the biggest fairy tale of all


On the contrary, true science and simple logic proves his existence.

ie - pencil vs brain - a maker is require for both to exist.

E = mc2

(Isa 40:26) ““Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing.”

ty,
edmc2

Oh, I see, the "Energy is everything and can't be destroyed etc" argument.
Go ahead and try to prove that the energy is intelligent or has a mind.


I didn't say energy has intelligence - I said that the source of energy has the intelligence. Thus the quote.

ty,

[edit on 17-7-2010 by edmc^2]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by soleprobe
Good job.... but the evolution theory is very similar to the climate change theory... it's roots are political... thus only logic that directs towards that political objective will be used.



see, this is the problem with you people...scientific testing is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of anything political...religion and the belief in god is totally political...why???
because nobody can DISPROVE A BELIEF!!! it's...a... BELIEF!!!



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by edmc^2

I didn't say energy has intelligence - I said that the source of energy has the intelligence. Thus the quote.

ty,

[edit on 17-7-2010 by edmc^2]

And how do you know anything about the source of this energy?
Old books? And also how do you know this source has intelligence?
Infact, how do you even know the energy has a source?

[edit on 17-7-2010 by hippomchippo]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:01 PM
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you guys ever think that this dude might be brilliant he might be play psyche games with you showing people jus how dumb an invisible creator is that is so powerful nothing created it it just appeared for no reason like a fairy with fairy dust!

so if he can suck people that argue for god which i have seen one in here who i have argued with on multiple occasions..but hes in here arguing against this guy after supportingbasically what the guy is saying....it makes me wonder maybe it's his way to get people to see there hypocritcal self!



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


One last post.

Your obviously beyond reasoning and would rather give way to nonsensical theory's just because they support your views.

.... and these things you KNOW to be facts, .... why ???

Because you read it out of some book (bible) Which is only an outdated view from someone thousands of years ago. God didn't write that, men did.

... and you further go on to spout bible passages as if it's some sort of source of absoloute proof ??

It is only a sign of ignorace and blind faith, clinging to a dead religion because you lack the ability to think for yourself, as god truly intended.

The irony lies in that by devoting yourself to this outdated religion you have become the walking dead in which the bible itself spoke of.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


if you want me to belive your theory of creation don't quote me something written be man, quote me something written by god.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


Not another creationist who thinks he/she is smarter than an evolutionist. So your argument is that a higher intelligence which has absolutely no evidence of even existing has created our entire world? I think trying to say, "It's too complex for me to understand, so something smarter than us created it!"

So people like the OP seem to pride themselves on pure ignorance and not knowing anything. It truly is a huge surprise that civilization has survived this long with thoughts like that.

If there were any reason for me to believe in a higher being is that people are still alive after millenniums of thoughts like that being the rule. It truly must be a miracle.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by soleprobe
Good job.... but the evolution theory is very similar to the climate change theory... it's roots are political... thus only logic that directs towards that political objective will be used.



see, this is the problem with you people...scientific testing is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of anything political...religion and the belief in god is totally political...why???
because nobody can DISPROVE A BELIEF!!! it's...a... BELIEF!!!


You mean FAITH? Anyway faith or belief is totally based on this fact:

True Faith and Blind Faith.

Here's the Bible diffinition of faith:

(Heb 11:1-2) “Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld. For by means of this the men of old times had witness borne to them.”

This type of faith/belief is not an ignorant readiness to believe something on weak or insufficient evidence.

On the other hand blind faith/belief is self explenatory - faith founded on unreality - something that does not make sense and illogic.


ty,
edmc2



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by edmc^2
So OZ are you saying that a simpe pencil requires a maker while the super complex universe with all of its stars and galaxies does not require a maker? Just happen to be?

Hmmm, highly illogic and unscientific don't you think?

ty,
edmc2



Why not? Does your super complex God require a maker?



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 



If miracles could not convince many to believe, how will mere words?



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


OK here is my last post on the subject.

I do not have a problem with faith or religion. If your beliefs get you through the day great. We all need that.

BUT If you are going to start a thread on a public form like this and expect a response do not dismiss everyones comments because they do not follow your beliefs



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by soleprobe
 


miracles? hmm you mean pregnancies that required no sex? you mean wanderings in the desert with no food or water? you mean the leap from cro-magnon to modern man?

could you be talking about the very god that noah sacrificed a few animals to like people vere satanists to?

V1. And on the new moon of the third month he went forth from the ark, and built an altar on that mountain. 8 2. And he made atonement for the earth, 9 and took a kid and made atonement by its blood for
all the guilt of the earth; for everything that had been on it had been destroyed, save those that were in the ark with Noah. 3. And he placed the fat thereof on the altar, and he took an ox, and a goat, and a sheep and kids, and salt, and a turtle-dove, and the young of a dove, and placed a burnt sacrifice on the altar, and poured thereon an offering mingled with oil, and sprinkled wine and strewed frankincense over everything, and caused a goodly savour to arise, acceptable before the Lord. 1 4. And the Lord smelt the goodly savour, 2 and He made a covenant with him that there should not be any more a flood to destroy the earth; 3 that all the days of the earth seed-time and harvest should never cease; cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night should not change their order, nor cease for ever.

www.sacred-texts.com...



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by edmc^2
 


Not another creationist who thinks he/she is smarter than an evolutionist. So your argument is that a higher intelligence which has absolutely no evidence of even existing has created our entire world? I think trying to say, "It's too complex for me to understand, so something smarter than us created it!"

So people like the OP seem to pride themselves on pure ignorance and not knowing anything. It truly is a huge surprise that civilization has survived this long with thoughts like that.

If there were any reason for me to believe in a higher being is that people are still alive after millenniums of thoughts like that being the rule. It truly must be a miracle.



Misoir - do you believe that Einstein, Sir Isaac Newton, Gallilleo, Dr. Stephen Hawkings and other great men of science posses higher intellegince than us? Yet most of them say that there's intelligece when the universe was put together. Why is that?

For instance, Albert Einstein was convinced that the universe had a beginning, and he expressed his desire

“to know how God created the world.” Yet Einstein did not admit to belief in a personal God; he spoke of a cosmic “religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man’s image.”

“It is enough for me to . . . reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe, which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifest in nature.”


And just so you know, I'm not as smart as you or any of the posters here - but I know this. Truth is truth no matter who has it.

So my simple test is just a test of the truth.

That is if a pencil requires a maker, why not a more complex 'thing'?

ty,
edmc2



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by soleprobe
 


not miracles my friend aliens
not kiddin neither



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:28 PM
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I don't feel compelled to answer the OP's arguments. You can find them in any introduction to philosophical analysis textbook used in Freshman classes around the world. It's old stuff.

What is interesting about the theory of Evolution is its OWN evolution since 1859. Darwin, who was NOT a political animal, but a scientist who did not care for politics, has a wealth of detail in "Origin of Species." (How many here besides myself have actually read it?) He uses contemporary examples showing evolution in action, such as the white moth evolving to a black moth because of coal dust pollution in the English countryside turning the bark of white trees black, thus favoring the survival of black moths from predators because they couldn't be seen. Changing conditions enabled survival of the fittest.

But a serious "flaw" in Evolution in 1859 and in 1871/2 when he published "The Descent of Man" was that no one knew how evolution worked. We could see the results, but we did not understand the mechanism behind it. Also, in the 19th century there were few, if any, fossils of early hominims that could show how Homo sapiens evolved. In other words, Darwin had a theory, but he didn't have much evidence other than the end results.

Then the 20th century came along and several things happened. First, we started finding lots of fossils. This has continued for 100 years with every new find filling in another piece of the puzzle. Yes, it's ever changing as we find newer bones; that's as it should be. But the fact is after a century of searching anthropologists have it pretty well nailed back to Homo erectus. It gets thinner and thinner the further back you go, of course, but the point is that nothing in the fossil record contradicts evolution. Everything found supports it; and Homo erectus was NOT Homo sapiens. He was a little smaller, not quite as intelligent, but could probably easily beat you on the soccer field. We have hundreds of specimens including some complete skeletons, such as Turkana Boy.

The other big thing that happened was the discovery of the mechanism in the form of DNA. If there was ever a "missing link," this was it. And the interesting thing was that these discoveries came about by studying genetics. These guys weren't into paleontology. So here we have two completely different fields and it all comes together. We now understand the science of genetics well enough that we can use gene therapy. We've mapped the human genome and are beginning to discover which genes cause which traits. Incredible.

So the point is that in the last 150 years science has confirmed evolution from may different angles.

And the sad thing is, this "creator" argument is simply unnecessary. It is not a logical fallacy to say that the Creator used the mechanism of DNA to create. You can have your God and evolution, too, and there is no real contradiction.

Of couse, OP won't go along with that. He's a man with a cause (see sig below), but I didn't write this for him, but to the reat of you whom I thought might be interested. I won't be back on this thread. It really isn't worth it. Cheers.

[edit on 7/17/2010 by schuyler]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by Not of this Earth
reply to post by edmc^2
 


OK here is my last post on the subject.

I do not have a problem with faith or religion. If your beliefs get you through the day great. We all need that.

BUT If you are going to start a thread on a public form like this and expect a response do not dismiss everyones comments because they do not follow your beliefs


I'm not dismissng it but looking for a logical, common sense answer.

So far the best I got, is - "inanimate objects" are man-made while "nature" is naturally occuring. No explenation why nature is naturally occuring - where did it come from if it's naturally occuring?

ty,
edmc2



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by soleprobe
reply to post by edmc^2
 



If miracles could not convince many to believe, how will mere words?


miracles are events that have not yet been explained...2,000 years ago, a T.V. would have been a miracle image, 2,000 years ago, a plane would have been gods in air chariots



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by metalholic
reply to post by soleprobe
 


not miracles my friend aliens
not kiddin neither


you have a passion for these aliens, eh?



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


Couple of questions...if god created everything and everything needs a creator(in your logic) then who created God and so on?

Does this also mean that God is not perfect..and that he/she/it is also pretty much an experiment by another creator?





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