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# Evolutionist I can prove to you that what you believe (evolution) is based on illogical reasoning, i

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posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 05:26 PM

In short, you're falling into the "god of the gaps" trap by blindly believing in stuff other people made up...or stuff we have no proof for...and why? Just because you can't seem to accept that there are things we don't know.

posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 05:46 PM

The infinite is not a real thing. You're basically building upon Xeno's paradox. The problem being that there is actually a point where you get to an indivisible increment.

There is no infinity in this universe, we live in a finite universe, nothing more.

Yes you are right. We live in a finite universe. But that finite universe exists within a infinite dimension.

The infinite is real. If it wasn't real, finite wouldn't have existed either. I know why you think the infinite is not real. And i have explained it. "You cant see it or observe it". But you know its there. The theory of expansion should give you the perspective to understand this.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 04:47 AM

Originally posted by spy66
Yes you are right. We live in a finite universe. But that finite universe exists within a infinite dimension.

...um...where is your proof? And what 'infinite dimension'? The X axis? Y axis? Z axis?

The infinite is real.

Prove it.

If it wasn't real, finite wouldn't have existed either.

Yes it would have. The finite isn't dependent on the infinite in any demonstrable way.

I know why you think the infinite is not real. And i have explained it. "You cant see it or observe it". But you know its there.

No, I don't know it's there. I know that it's conceptual, that I can think of the infinite. But I don't know it's there.

The theory of expansion should give you the perspective to understand this.

...yes, our universe is expanding, but it will eventually stop expanding and either stabilize at heat death or contract. So again we arrive at the finite.

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 04:52 AM
but then something will surely happen after that, which will continue to perpetuate the infinite. If the infinite was easily describable, it would be finite.

holy crap I need to go to bed.

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 05:07 AM
Question:
If we evolved from "Neanderthals" why did we lose most of our hair on our bodies that protected us from the sun?
What happened to our strength? Did we de-evole to become skinnier and weaker? (Evolution = improvement...not so?)
Once all the questions the Theory of Evolution creates can be answered it can be accepted as fact.
I am not against the concept of evolution... I just want it to be proved... which it hasn't been so far.

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 06:42 AM

Originally posted by halfmanhalfamazing
If we evolved from "Neanderthals"...

That's a common misconception. We didn't. Current genetic evidence indicates that we coexisted and interbred with them.

...why did we lose most of our hair on our bodies that protected us from the sun?

There are a couple of hypotheses regarding loss of hair. It may have been so that we could better regulate body temperature in a warmer climate, or provided less water resistance and enhanced our ability to swim as we migrated to coastal areas, or even for better social signaling in groups.

What happened to our strength? Did we de-evole to become skinnier and weaker? (Evolution = improvement...not so?)

Another common misconception. Evolution is about fitness relative to the environment, not some idealized notion of "improvement" or being "better". Bigger and stronger isn't always better - muscle mass takes additional nutrient intake to maintain. Sometimes smaller, smarter, and more efficient is the "improvement".

Really? Have you even looked? There's even a well sourced Wikipedia page on hominid transitional species if you take 2 seconds to try and find it.

Once all the questions the Theory of Evolution creates can be answered it can be accepted as fact.

Facts are subordinate to theory in science. A theory is the framework used to explain the facts. Given the mountain of evidence for evolution and the lack of evidence for any other competing theory, evolution wins.

I am not against the concept of evolution... I just want it to be proved... which it hasn't been so far.

Have you looked at the evidence that's out there? Evolution is, simply put, a fact. We can observe it. We can recreate it. We can measure it. We can test it. The theory of evolution is fundamentally sound and debates within the field having nothing to do with whether or not evolution occurs, but rather the specific mechanisms by which it occurs and the relative importance of those mechanisms.

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 08:47 AM

OK your post is out of line. I have lurked and lurked....enough!

Every single answer except for like two have been pathetic. Your all wrong. And most of your EGO's are sooo HUGE it's sick.

You guys all show your ignorance. Not one of you have it right. And there is enough information out on ATS and other places on the INTERNET you should be ashamed and you should all know BETTER!

You have been BRAINWASHED by an education system with an AGENDA.

There is a creator and his signature is found all around us in earth and in the stars and planets. It's actually all too obvious if your looking in the right places. The signature is also found in the fractal pattern you would call a construct of nature. The spiral ... the information field that makes up all things, the Golden Mean etc. The same math found in the information field is apparent in our planets alignments and in the way all the planets move and the places of energy on each planet. It all repeats like a never ending beacon that says "Look at my source that is just like the source of your planet which matches the source and energy field of your body which in turn matches the source and energy of ALL particles. It's all out there now and you all are in here arguing the same old same old.... it's really kind of PATHETIC and you think your educated, deep and so smart ROFL. I'm sorry I know it sounds really arrogant but I just can't help but to actually LAUGH at the IGNORANCE I'm seeing displayed here in this thread.

You guys have not learned a thing but to parrot what "they" wanted you to believe so you could be controlled. Silly people soo sooo mislead you all are truly "The blind leading the blind". And even the "creationist" don't understand that the first chapter of Genesis actually describes a type of evolution. The order is the exact same order of creation events that evolution teaches. These things to do with evolution are all after mankind was introduced to his flesh body. Man has not always had his present form. Man kind was/is a LIGHT BEING. OUR DNA is a photon receptor, a light receptor. Then come along the rebel group of higher intelligent beings that tampered with man and mingled him with animal DNA thus the appearance of evolution.These rebel beings not only tampered with our DNA they also enslaved us and set up a system of pyramidal power and rule obscured with symbols.

Why do you think the universe is populated with aliens that seem to share many traits in one way or the other, whether it be large eyes or a glowing ascended type of appearance. According to evolution this really shouldn't be. Any way these guys have been populating the universe and playing God on different planets evidently. Thus the reason for our creator to manifest as a human being named Yeshua. Yeshua came he said to "set the prisoner free" Who do you think he was talking about? What prisoner? It's so painfully obvious to those of us in the know.

Yes religion sucks. But I dare say it would seem that our creator did truly manifest as a human and he is who he says he is. Why would a creator do this? It would seem that humans are actually a part of him we are each a facet of his personality. And if rebel ET forces more or less took us hostage the universe did the obviously natural thing create a nemesis to combat these rebel beings. But who could do such a thing? These beings are of very high intelligence and seemingly almost magical power? Only one person existed but had yet to manifest in a flesh body to undo the damage done to mankind. GOD HIMSELF!

It's deep unlike the trash you guys are all spouting as if it's fact. What a joke our education system turned out to be. This stuff your guys are arguing to the death about is a "theory" not only that its something they that your 10Th grade high school teacher crammed down your throat as fact. Harsh but so true. Part of it may even be true. But certainly not your origin they missed that one big time and on purpose. So you see your both right and your both wrong... Please if you have not done if already introduce yourself to the creator and acknowledge his existence stop hanging on to old ideas and parroting sarcastic notions about a flying spaghetti monster and the likes. God does exist and if you look for him you will find him.

THERE IS A CREATOR AND ALL THE PLANETS AND STARS AND EVEN YOUR CELLS PROVE IT. The "powers that be" decided a long time ago that you ALL should never find this out because it means that your ARE A GOD. IF YOU FIND OUT THE POWER OF AGREEING TOGETHER WITH YOUR MINDS THEY COULD NOT RETAIN THE POWER OVER YOU! Get it? sigh... most likely many of you still won't believe it the brainwashing is ingrained so deep into your belief structure and paradigm. It's too bad because Gods cool and he's not that fire and brimstone killer the average fundy believes him to be. He's all good. PERIOD.

Any way OK now you can continue to argue about nothing. Have fun.

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 09:54 AM

1) Typing with capslock doesn't make stuff true...especially if you fail at providing any proof for your statements.
2) Who exactly are "they"? The eeeeeeeeevil people who want to educate you and teach you about science facts?
3) You're trolling, right? I mean, "light receptor"...in the same sentence as other weird words that lack any scientific explanation or even observation. What's next? Pink unicorns farting rainbows? Don't believe in pink unicorns? Well, they're special invisible pink unicorns...and the fact that you can see rainbows is proof that they exist...right?

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 10:15 AM

Oh please. OK you want me to just take this post over and explain the workings of the universe to you/ That would be a bit rude would it not? We could start with the energy points on our planet matching all the other planets and it being based on tetrahedral geometry. Which is found and has been written about for eons. Of course it's nonsense. The bones in your hands match the same mathematics principal. The underlying information field dictates the shape based on this sacred geometry found everywhere in nature and in your design. Why do these things match? All nonsense right?

I really don't want to waste my time I just had an outburst and posted sorry about that(I'll go back to lurksville now). If your truly interested in why hyper-dimensional physics proves an unseen world that science has claimed doesn't exist and how it connects us with all things and creation itself I'll continue trying to answers your line of questions..otherwise..I'm kinda feeling a tad under the weather and feel weak as a kitten at the moment.Thanks for understanding.

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 10:18 AM

Oh please. OK you want me to just take this post over and explain the workings of the universe to you/ That would be a bit rude would it not? We could start with the energy points on our planet matching all the other planets and it being based on tetrahedral geometry. Which is found and has been written about for eons. Of course it's nonsense. The bones in your hands match the same mathematics principal. The underlying information field dictates the shape based on this sacred geometry found everywhere in nature and in your design. Why do these things match? All nonsense right?

I really don't want to waste my time I just had an outburst and posted sorry about that(I'll go back to lurksville now). If your truly interested in why hyper-dimensional physics proves an unseen world that science has claimed doesn't exist and how it connects us with all things and creation itself I'll continue trying to answers your line of questions..otherwise..I'm kinda feeling a tad under the weather and feel weak as a kitten at the moment.Thanks for understanding.

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 10:33 AM

Originally posted by firegoggles

Oh please. OK you want me to just take this post over and explain the workings of the universe to you/ That would be a bit rude would it not? We could start with the energy points on our planet matching all the other planets and it being based on tetrahedral geometry. Which is found and has been written about for eons. Of course it's nonsense. The bones in your hands match the same mathematics principal. The underlying information field dictates the shape based on this sacred geometry found everywhere in nature and in your design. Why do these things match? All nonsense right?

I really don't want to waste my time I just had an outburst and posted sorry about that(I'll go back to lurksville now). If your truly interested in why hyper-dimensional physics proves an unseen world that science has claimed doesn't exist and how it connects us with all things and creation itself I'll continue trying to answers your line of questions..otherwise..I'm kinda feeling a tad under the weather and feel weak as a kitten at the moment.Thanks for understanding.

Well, I don't think providing proof for your random statements would be rude...it would be the logical thing to do.

Tetrahedral molecular geometry only applies for HALF of the periodic table, and there's plenty of exceptions. If you really knew what it is, instead of copying it from some random site, you would have known that. So no, it doesn't apply to "everything" as you claim. What's more, tetrahedral geometry doesn't concern itself with bone geometry at all. So no, "all those things" don't match...and yeah, it's nonsense

As for hyper-dimensional physics...that's just pseudo-science word made up by Hoagland. It's not based on science, just pure wish belief and stuff a man made up to sell more books and make \$\$\$.

His main claim is that...

...vast amounts of energy originating from dimensions we cannot perceive are available at latitudes 19.5° both south and north on the Sun and every planet in the solar system.

But guess what, no one (incl. himself) were ever able to demonstrate this claim. Like most of his claims, he never provides evidence...just like some people on these forums.

I've read his books (most of them). They're entertaining, but from a scientific standpoint complete hogwash. Anyone who ever had basic astronomy or physics can point out the hundreds of flaws in his books...and those that don't have the knowledge could easily look stuff up and see that his theories are hogwash. Entertaining hogwash, but still total hogwash.

Lastly, I don't know what this has to do with evolution. Evolution is a scientific theory that in over 150yrs hasn't been debunked, we use it daily in modern science/medicine/gene-technology, and it's got thousands of pieces of evidence to back it up. What you posted has ZERO evidence and is just fairy tales by someone who wants to make \$\$\$ selling books.
edit on 15-11-2010 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 10:45 AM

Random site? I think not. No proof? Wrong again. Each planet does in fact release the energy at each location at 19.5 degrees. That's not the half of it there is proof of a grid that is a sacred geometric shape.

Vortex math is the mathematics explanation and it works very nicely in explaining the dynamics of this spiral of life. so again your mistaken there is plenty of proof that it's all in fact very real. I have drawings in my garage of an object designed on this principle are you going to tell me it's not real too? We even have buildings here on earth based on the same type of math. Are they not real? Where are you getting your information from anyway?

Oh and what it has to do with evolution? Everything it proves an intelligent pattern that should not be present. It proves that there is an unseen and intelligent field that dictates all things living and non living in a pattern that is repeated over and over in all things around us.It's underlying information field that was designed to produce humanoids and that we are not machines we are spirit beings that have been placed in machines. It proves that our environment and belief structure determine even the outcome of our genes it completely turns modern science on it's head. That's what it has to do with evolution. Of course with your strict view of "if science channel doesn't teach and Carl Seagan didn't say it it must not be" I'm sure its difficult for you to break through and start doing unbiased research and really get a grasp on how not only incredible what I'm trying to convey to you is.
edit on 11/15/2010 by firegoggles because: Couple additions.

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 10:52 AM

Originally posted by firegoggles

Random site? I think not. No proof? Wrong again. Each planet does in fact release the energy at each location at 19.5 degrees.

Vortex math is the mathmatic explanation so again your mistaken there is plenty of proof that it's all in fact very real. I have drawings in my garage of an object designed on this principle are you going to tell me it's not real too? We even have buildings here on earth based on the same type of math. Are they not real? Where are you getting your information from anyway?

Oh, so energy is in fact released? Cool, please provide me with a source for that. And no, not Hoagland, because he never actually provided proof...he just stated it was the case. That's not science, that's like a religion, just stating random stuff without ever providing evidence. And yeah, RANDOM SITE...at least until you prove me wrong by providing the link and source for your statements. Kinda ironic that you answer with "random site, I don't think so!"...and then fail horribly at posting a link

And since you have drawings, I'm sure you can upload some pics that will prove it all.

Prove what though? The existence of mathematical principles??? How on earth does that prove anything you stated? Light beings, really?

So far you are doing the same thing Hoagland does: State stuff without providing the least bit of evidence or backup.

If you want to have a serious scientific discussion, I suggest you provide at least some evidence for your claims...until then, everything you state is totally random hogwash.

Why Hoagland is a scammer and sharlatan!!

edit on 15-11-2010 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 11:01 AM

Originally posted by firegoggles

Random site? I think not. No proof? Wrong again. Each planet does in fact release the energy at each location at 19.5 degrees.

Vortex math is the mathmatic explanation so again your mistaken there is plenty of proof that it's all in fact very real. I have drawings in my garage of an object designed on this principle are you going to tell me it's not real too? We even have buildings here on earth based on the same type of math. Are they not real? Where are you getting your information from anyway?

Vortex math? Is that the same thing as Torison field physics or Spin physics?

I've read a little bit about that stuff.... I think there may be something to it but I'm no Physicist. Sacred geometry comes into play here with the 5 platonic solids directly correlating to the energy release you mentioned.

The way I understand it is this; Torsion waves stream into and out of spherical bodies at both the macro and quantum levels. There are no particles, only spherical waveforms.

Of course it could just be a bunch of hooey but I don't know anything for certain.

G**gle; Spin Physics, Torsion Wave/Fields, Spherical waveforms, Kozyrev, Platonic Solids, Sacred geometry, etc....

Kozyrev, Aether, Time and...

~Peace

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 11:05 AM

There's no way to know if time can actually stop at a certain point. It is a dimension in a similar way that length and depth are.

Originally posted by halfmanhalfamazing
Question:
If we evolved from "Neanderthals" why did we lose most of our hair on our bodies that protected us from the sun?

We did not evolve from Neanderthal man, we are cousins.
And they weren't much hairier than we are.

What happened to our strength? Did we de-evole to become skinnier and weaker? (Evolution = improvement...not so?)

Evolution doesn't mean 'improvement', it means 'change over time'.
The seeming advantage of weakness can easily be seen if you compare the diet of a bodybuilder with that of an average person. You have to eat a lot more to maintain the physique. More efficiency.

Which one?

Once all the questions the Theory of Evolution creates can be answered it can be accepted as fact.
I am not against the concept of evolution... I just want it to be proved... which it hasn't been so far.

It's actually one of the most well-proven scientific theories around.

To look into the evidence for evolution, I'd recommend Talk Origins, they have a massive repository of evidence for evolution, including references to speciation and the fossil record.

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 11:08 AM

You want a link? It sounds like your the one in the habit of running and grabbing some link of the Internet to try and prove your brainwashed knee jerk system invoked dribble.

We are more or less having a conversation and I dont need to grab a random link to prove what I'm saying to be true. It's really obvious. For instance...I don't need a link to point out the volcano of Hawaii or I don't need a web site link to point out the eye of Jupiter or the hexagonal shape found at the pole here is a pic just because I know your most likely raised on the bottle of T.V. so an image should comfort your insistent need for some media confirmation.

External source pic being used from infinitylabs.net

I can go on like this for a long while. Lets start with this. With our present model and understanding of the planets this should not be possible correct?

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 11:11 AM

Vortex math is yet another pseudo-science

That's why if you google it, the first few results are all from:

- www.lifeforcegenie.com
- www.markrodin.com (the "creator" of VM)
- www.godlikeproductions.com
- www.ats.com (lol)

From Mark Rodin's site:

Mathematics as we know it today is only a tool to symbolize quantities. Vortex-Based Mathematics (VBM) is completely different because it is a dynamic math that shows the relationships and thus the qualities of numbers rather than the quantities.

Marko studied all the world's great religions. He decided to take The Most Great Name of Bahaullah (prophet of the Bahai Faith) which is Abha and convert it into numbers. He did this in an effort to discover the true precise mystical intonation of The Most Great Name of God.

Soooooooooooo...yeah, scientifically it's total hogwash, just like astrology and believing in pink unicorns. His "institute" isn't accredited anywhere, it's not based on science, it's a religious outlet that pretends to be science.

And even IF it wasn't hogwash, it still wouldn't prove any of the statements (light beings, etc.) firegoggles posted

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 11:13 AM
This Youtube video series by Don Exodus provides overwhelming evidence that evolution is fact.

Irrefutable Proof of Evolution- Part 1 (mtDNA, ERVs, Fusion)

Proof of Evolution - Part 2 (Summation)

Proof of Evolution - Part 3 (Atavisms and Fossils)

Proof of Evolution - Part 4 Embryology

Honestly, I can't understand why some think that a belief in evolution and divine creation are mutually exclusive. They don't have to be at all.

~peace

Can't get the 2nd video to embed... sorry 'bout that....

edit on 15-11-2010 by Blarneystoner because: tried to fix video embedding...

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 11:18 AM

Well... you may be right but there are plenty of examples of empirical and anecdotal evidence that may suggest otherwise. I can't discount or confirm due to my lack of expertise in the field of Physics but I am also aware that if these theories are valid then it would be imperative that the Scientific communities to kill ‘em dead!

And besides... I'm not familiar with Mark Rodin.. I just asked if his work was related to the Russian scientist Kozyrev's work.
edit on 15-11-2010 by Blarneystoner because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 11:18 AM

So basically what you're saying is that you are gonna continue making random statements without providing proof?

Comparing outrageous statements about "light beings" with the Haleakala (volcano in Hawaii) is laughable.

As for the hexagon, that's on Saturn, not Jupiter...and there's several explanations for it. And even if we don't know the true reason with 100% certainty, making random statements about it without providing any evidence (like you do) is 100% useless and NOT science.

You're clearly not willing (able?) to back up your claims, else you would have already done so.

Posting a pic of Saturn's hexagon clearly can't be considered proof for light beings or the rest of your hypothesis (yes, hypothesis...scientifically speaking it's not a theory since you fail at providing evidence).

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