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Judge: Law penalizing fake heroes unconstitutional

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posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 01:39 AM
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Judge: Law penalizing fake heroes unconstitutional


www.nbc11news.com

A law that makes it illegal to lie about being a war hero is unconstitutional because it violates free speech, a federal judge ruled Friday as he dismissed a case against a Colorado man who claimed he received two military medals.

Rick Glen Strandlof claimed he was an ex-Marine who was wounded in Iraq and received the Purple Heart and Silver Star, but the military had no record he ever served. He was charged with violating the Stolen Valor Act, which makes it a crime punishable by up to a yea
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 01:39 AM
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Although I agree that the law is unconstitutional, there is nothing that aggravates me more than people falsely claiming to be a Navy Seal, SF commando or war heroe with stories of themselves standing knee deep in hand grenade pins.

Instead of criminally penalizing these arm-chair heroes, there should be a national registry of all who make those claims. With that being said, I think that some of it should be illegal, such as taking it further than trying to get a girl in bed. Not only does it degrade those who have sacrificed so much, but it also gives true heroes a bad image.

What do other members think, should it be illegal or has this judge made the right call?

--airspoon

www.nbc11news.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 17-7-2010 by airspoon]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 01:43 AM
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That judge needs a good butt whoopin by real veterans. How can representing yourself as a decorated war veteran not be against the law? Representing yourself as a judge is probably against the law as is representing yourself as a law enforcement officer.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 01:43 AM
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reply to post by airspoon
 

I think the first amendment implies you cant outlaw bull# artists,however once exposed these people do face consequences for example I will not pay for or watch one of my former favorite actors Brian Dennehy anymore due to his Vietnam Vet claims-he was never there.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 01:59 AM
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reply to post by groingrinder
 


I agree, sort of but people should be protected by the Constitution, unless of course they are defrauding someone. Don't get me wrong, I think these people should be punished, just not criminally and by the government. I still hold the Constitution to be valid. Of course this should be within reason.

Other than possibly getting laid, what good does it really do anyway to make such claims? All of the benefits associated with such a claim, such as VA or VFW can only be claimed with proof, obviously.

So, instead of allowing the government to subvert the Constitution, we should have some national registry of fakes, similar to sex-offenders. That way, if someone is making claims, you can just plug their names into the registry and see them for the phony that they are.

Don't get me wrong, I have no love for someone who would take the [*snip*] way out but I do have respect for liberty and the Constitution. We can't pick and choose which parts of the Constitution we want to abide by. With this being said, I don't think that people should get away with it either. For the most part, you can tell when people are lying about it.

--airspoon



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


So why is it illegal to claim you are a law enforcement officer? Does that not fall under the same Constitution?



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 02:08 AM
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reply to post by groingrinder
 


Well to be honest, I don't agree with that being illegal either, unless of course they defraud someone.

--airspoon



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 02:10 AM
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There is an easy fix for this. Arm them up and send them into combat.

This is the second line of my post.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 02:20 AM
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reply to post by Darkice19
 


No way, we don't want those kinds of losers next to us in battle. The should draft them into the Iraqi/Afghani army.

--airspoon



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 03:12 AM
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Originally posted by airspoon
I think that some of it should be illegal, such as taking it further than trying to get a girl in bed. Not only does it degrade those who have sacrificed so much, but it also gives true heroes a bad image.


It doesn't matter why they are telling the lie. If their lie leads to financial damages, like hiring someone based on the idea they are a war hero and they turn out to be disloyal, then they should be able to be sued. Therefore, I'm not so sure any additional laws are needed for that purpose. So, if you lie and your lie causes consequences, I'd think you could sue under the existing system. I would think that should be enough as taking it beyond that may be simply forcing your morals on someone else.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by Darkice19
There is an easy fix for this. Arm them up and send them into combat.

This is the second line of my post.


While I admit that is the perfect revenge, its technically slavery, and revenge isn't much a virtue.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 03:31 AM
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Okay, so he did violate the Stolen Valor Act, which does say it's illegal. But they challenged the constitutionality of the act and the judge agreed, is that it? So is this going up the courts for further decision?

Also, I think your idea of a registry might be a good one too. But that probably won't fly unless the act is upheld and someone is convicted.

I didn't know much about the act, so I found this summary. Pretty interesting stuff. Makes a lot of sense. Thanks.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 03:34 AM
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reply to post by truthquest
 



It doesn't matter why they are telling the lie. If their lie leads to financial damages, like hiring someone based on the idea they are a war hero and they turn out to be disloyal, then they should be able to be sued. Therefore, I'm not so sure any additional laws are needed for that purpose. So, if you lie and your lie causes consequences, I'd think you could sue under the existing system. I would think that should be enough as taking it beyond that may be simply forcing your morals on someone else.


If you are hiring someone based upon their war experiences, without any proof of such experiences, then it is your own fault. Also, I said that if they defraud someone, then they should be held criminally liable. However, we can't circumvent the Constitution just because something seems horrible.

--airspoon



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 03:35 AM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


I don't really think it matters man.

I used to drive SF and Navy Seals around in my Cab all the freaking time.

If some guy comes up to you and tells you he is a Navy seal he is full of it period.

A true Navy seal will either tell you he is going to slit your throat or tell you he works as one of the guys who puts the closed captions on the TV LOL. Either or depending on how drunk they are at the time.

SF are usually very, very quiet or just ramble on about killing Muslims to scar you.

I always had a big beard to look scary while driving cab and the SF guys would always act totally wired and try to scar me. After their rambling on they would ask me if I was muslim I would look at them and say in my best Muslim accent "YESS! how you know! Listen I hear how much you gentlemen like very much killing muslims sooooooo I was wondering if you would kill my wife......she talk to much and develop a terrible Amerikan attitude...If you kill her and the children I give you $2 dollar discount on meter...what you say...YES??".

After a bit of complete silence....

"OK, OK..I give you free ride...OK?"

Of course the quiet SF guys would start laughing knowing better.

The Brits in training on the US side are total dumb asses tho.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 03:42 AM
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reply to post by Izarith
 


Nah man, I went through a school in the Army with SEALs. It's a school that is part of their training and they have to go through it before joining a team (same with all SF from every branch). They are just regular guys, like you and me, though they just happened to sign up for and get into a SEAL team.

I do however agree that most people who claim to be a SEAL, are lying. As far as SF or CIA operators, everyone who tells you that, is lying through their [*snip*]. The very nature of their existence (DELTA for SF) is secret and so won't be bragging about it, even while drunk.

--airspoon

[edit on 17-7-2010 by airspoon]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 04:05 AM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


I remember this guy from a few months back, he was let into the army national guard and said he was a marine previously.
If this is the same guy I'm thinking of anyway.
If so they should have tried this [CHOICE WORD] in a military court as he claimed to be a soldier.
But oh well lived a little learn a little, paste his face across the net for all to see.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 04:06 AM
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I am a vietman vet.

What is the judge going to say about my free speech rights when i out the SOB.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 04:20 AM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


Don't get me wrong I love Seals they are really cool guys, but trust me there are a few that while drunk will very comely and politely tell you they are going to slit your throat. It did not happen to me. It actually happened for the very same reason of this OP in a dinner I was eating at. The cook was talking about his time in Iraq and the Seal for some reason felt he was not telling the truth.....Not pretty.

But aside from that Seals know it's super cool to be a seal to everyone else and they have this thing about pretending not to be a Navy Seal.

They are down right way to close when it comes to their team, it's very intimate, not sexual tho..despite the jokes.

But I can spot an SF guy a mile away, their either very quiet or total idiots It might be a Ranger Delta thing I don't know but your right they don't talk about it. You can tell by their mussel structure, the training they go through actual brakes down what they were and builds them to spec.

Spooks are even easier to spot. Especially on their first day at point loma. Spooks get so excited about their new training that if you catch them fresh they just have to tell you in some way.

Cab Driving puts the fly in fly on the wall.


Edit to add: to be clear i'm making a distinction between Seals and SF. Seals are really laid back.

[edit on 17-7-2010 by Izarith]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 07:19 AM
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Who did he actually tell this lie to? I think that makes some difference. Did he make the statement under oath? Did he make the statement to get a job? Did he make the statement to avoid a ticket? Did he claim it on some internet forum? Or did he make it to impress some bimbo?

Superfly Commando Sri Oracle



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 07:26 AM
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Lying is free speech..? eeep I guess it is.
..and they want to give umpteen years in the clink to a couple of kids who hacked their grades in cali...

I agree with Oracle - who did he Yak off to and why?
If he gained from it wouldn't that be some type of fraud?

In any event lying about bravery is a too common thing.
Wannabees they call em.





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