Mosque @ ground Zero to open 09/11/11

reply to post by Aggie Man


Cursed??? really? You believe that a piece of land can become cursed because ..... Or do you believe that the curse caused these 2 events to happen?

1)Muslim extremest chose to crash planes into a building that sat here?
They chose it because of impact on the fears of the nation.
2) A ship was found from roughly 200 years ago...The initial theory is, the ship was put there to use as fill.

A better question is.. You really believe in curses?? Do voodoo dolls fall into the "curse" catagory? Or, are voodoo dolls just fairy tale nonsense?

I often get frightened about people that believe stuff like this... They are driving 3000 lb cars on the same roads as myself and my children.. I also have this over whelming fear that you might reproduce and then be responsible for the up bringing of a young impressionable mind.

reply to post by CaptGizmo


Ya I question the motive here too... So let’s say an extremist Muslin group brought down the towers, what would be a true in your face second act to it, what would be a show of power to their ignorant followers, just what could they do to say America is powerless against anything they wish to do?

I would say build a mosque in the site..... Makes one wonder doesn't it?


[edit on 16-7-2010 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by Mobius1974
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

Cursed??? really? You believe that a piece of land can become cursed because ..... Or do you believe that the curse caused these 2 events to happen?

No, I believe it's cursed, because: it will FOREVER be the "Pi$$ing grounds" for Christians vs. Muslims.

Let the Mosque be built AND WORSHIPED w/o incident and I will retract. However, I fully believe that this will be an endless "battle" over a meaningless piece of real-estate. bomb....bomb....bomb....bomb...bomb...back-and-forth....back-and-forth....back-and-forth...

it's a symbolism of two conflicting ideologies. (not an actual "curse")

[edit on 16-7-2010 by Aggie Man]

reply to post by Aggie Man


Ok, ok that is a much more rational stance... you had me going for a minute... Like a scooby doo curse or something.. ha

Wow... how many threads will we have promoting this?

Well, unfortunately there is a story behind this.

Do you know the details?

Question: Why did they name this $100 million dollar Mosque the Córdoba house?

Answer: It is named after the first mosque built by Muslims in Spain as a triumph for victory over Spain.

A mosque at Ground Zero is something intelligent people can dispute honestly and in good faith. But honesty is essential, and it would be dishonest to dismiss the implications of proposing to name it Cordoba House.

“Cordoba,” in Islamic symbolic terms, means Islamic rule in the West. It does not mean “coexistence,” unless coexistence is interpreted as referring to Islamic rule. Pamela Geller at Atlas Shrugs cites the article (original in Arabic) published by Iraqi-American Khudhayr Taher on 18 May, in which Taher explains the following: We must note that a hostile and provocative name [Cordoba] has been chosen for this mosque…Choosing the name ‘Cordoba House’ for the mosque to be constructed in New York was not coincidental or random and innocent. It bears within it significance and dreams of expansion and invasion [into the territory] of the other, [while] striving to change his religion and to subjugate him…

“Cordoba” is not a name that evokes peaceful coexistence of Islam and the West.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

The Imam, according to the link provided below, wrote a book originally titled What's Right With Islam, later called, What's Right With America, and still later in 2007 retitled for distribution in the Arab countries:

" From The World Trade Center Rubble, Islamic Da'wah, Post 9/11"

From the book, according to this link, "The American political structure is Shariah compliant", and, "For America to score higher on the Islamic or Sharia compliant scale, America would need to do two things: invite the voices of all religions to join the dialog in shaping the nations practical (secular?) life and allow religious communities more leeway to judge among themselves, according to their own laws"

Is that a call to a theocratic America?

lonestartimes.com...

My first question on hearing this a couple of weeks ago was whether Americans are completely ignorant of history.

Cordoba was, of course, the seat of the caliphate established in what is now modern Spain after the Islamic invasion from North Africa in the 8th century A.D. The medieval occupation of Spain – “al-Andalus” – is considered by Islamic theorists to have been an inevitable step in the manifest destiny of Islam, and its eventual reversal through the lengthy European “Reconquista” a tragic but temporary triumph of the infidels. The great mosque at Cordoba was built on the foundation of a Christian cathedral, and when Europeans retook Cordoba in the 13th century they turned the magnificent mosque back into a cathedral.

But there is also no question that the mosque at Cordoba represents a history of conquest and reconquest that, from the perspective of Islamists, is at an unfinished stage as of today. The caliphate of Cordoba was the geographic high point of Umayyad Muslim rule – that is, of the original caliphate that succeeded Mohammed – on European territory. It represents a glory that Islamists intend to restore. Its eventual loss to the Europeans represents, equally, an evil reversal, imposed by infidels, that requires redress.

“Cordoba,” in Islamic symbolic terms, means Islamic rule in the West. It does not mean “coexistence,” unless coexistence is interpreted as referring to Islamic rule. Pamela Geller at Atlas Shrugs cites the article (original in Arabic) published by Iraqi-American Khudhayr Taher on 18 May, in which Taher explains the following: We must note that a hostile and provocative name [Cordoba] has been chosen for this mosque…Choosing the name ‘Cordoba House’ for the mosque to be constructed in New York was not coincidental or random and innocent. It bears within it significance and dreams of expansion and invasion [into the territory] of the other, [while] striving to change his religion and to subjugate him…

It used to not even be a stretch for reasonably well educated Westerners to recognize the place of Spain and Cordoba in the history of the West and Islam. Many of today’s younger adults, however, have learned nothing about the Mediterranean before 1492 except that the Muslim period in Spain was a flowering of science, art, and culture. There was a great deal to admire in the accomplishments of the Muslim Cordobans, but they did, in fact, invade and conquer Spain, sell its inhabitants into slavery, provide a base for slaver raids into other parts of Europe, and rule by the sword in much of the caliphate.

“Cordoba” is not a name that evokes peaceful coexistence of Islam and the West.

A mosque at Ground Zero is something intelligent people can dispute honestly and in good faith. But honesty is essential, and it would be dishonest to dismiss the implications of proposing to name it Cordoba House.

www.liveleak.com...

Look I'm muslim, and I dont know their intentions behind this, but i think they do have every right to do so, and most people on here didnt seem to read the post that says that the mosque is going to be built a few blocks from ground zero NOT THE ACTUAL SITE, however i do think that if this is actually gonna happen they should choose another opening date, for one because we pray on Fridays not Sundays, and also because its just plain ignorant to choose that date.

Also to the ignorant posters that say that the mosque should only be built if a church/synagogue gets built in Baghdad or southern Lebanon, you guys seem to ignore the fact that more or less 50% of the Lebanon population are christian. And that not all Middle Eastern countries are Muslim countries.

reply to post by Mobius1974


This is similar to the people who got together and created the "draw pictures of Muhammad day". Except the people who live near NY seem to believe the freedom of speech needs to get thrown out the window when it is them getting offended. This mosque opening on 9/11 isn't worth destroying the freedom of expression over as offensive as it is.

reply to post by zroth


I'll tell you why it turned into a hatred of an entire barbaric religious system. Here it is follow me on this........People hate the Muslims becuase in 4 hours they killed just under 3,000 people in an act of pure hatred. Then our Muslim neighbors celebrated it openly in the streets of our cities. Maybe thats a glimpse into why people distrust Muslims over any other religious group. And dont start thinking I'm some racist idiot but this is an actual quote from a Muslim I knew before we graduated and he moved back to Jordan "inside every Muslim is an extremist". Obviously not every Muslim is bad but those words wore spoken by a kid who I grew up with in Paterson NJ so really who can you trust.

reply to post by Hatcookie

This thread right here on ats would seem to contradict you...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"wow latest tally on last page has:

407 people Do Not belive in the Official story

while only

20 people believe in the Official Story "

Quote taken from Nola213

There are other poll threads like it here as well, as well as many mainstream polls that were landslides AGAINST the official story.

Show me ONE poll that shows at least 50% of people believe the official story. And dont make it up yourself.

That is one poorly constructed poll, my friend. It does not answer the question whether people believe the OS. People can believe the OS and still believe that they are not telling us the whole truth.

Rarely do you get the whole truth from the gov in instances like this. That is because of national security issues, and does NOT mean they are guilty of complicity.

No pollster of any merit would pay any attention to that 'poll'.

Originally posted by FrancoUn-American
reply to post by zroth

 

...Then our Muslim neighbors celebrated it openly in the streets of our cities.....

Really? In general, or your neighbors? I must have missed this part. Do you have that on film? My Muslim neighbors were scared to death they'd be rounded up into internment camps.

I recall some dancing Israelis and a white van. I recall some "news" media showing Muslims dancing overseas and made the film look like a hoard, but that was later debunked if I recall correctly. But, nope. No dancing Muslims.

Has no one here even attempted to validate that 9/11/2011 is in any way a valid date for either the groundbreaking or the opening? No. Didn't think so.

[edit on 7/17/2010 by ~Lucidity]

If this is true and confirmed, it'll cause needless aggravation within the NYC community.

You can say whatever you want but opening a mosque at Ground Zero on 9/11 cannot possibly be defended because their religion has been blamed for the atrocity and opening a mosque on that particular day smacks of point scoring.

Can't they just open on the 12th?

Expect a riot.

reply to post by Mobius1974


forgiveness has to start somewhere

it wasn't all of the Islamic religion conspiring against America to bring those towers down...it was an extremist group with roots in Afghanistan and i often wonder if the attack wouldn't have been far more horrific if it weren't for Charlie Wilson and his efforts toward leveling the playing field between the Afghans and their Soviet invaders.

but that's beside the point.

the truth is that America remains America and that means that there are all cultures and religions living together within our borders, not excluding Muslims of all levels of intensity in regard to religion. and every single citizen of the United States whose religion is Islam is just as much an American citizen as any person who died on 9/11.

the people who attacked the WTC were not Americans and did not want to be. they had one objective on our shores and they accomplished that objective. they are dead now, too.

to blame everyone who shares the same culture or religion of origin for the crimes of a few is definitely UN-American and is against everything this country was founded upon.

during WWII, many Japanese-Americans, who were citizens of the U.S., were kept in camps until the end of the war. that wasn't right then and it is a shameful thing to have treated American citizens as if they were the enemy just because they were Japanese, too.

the mosque is perhaps a hand offered in forgiveness with an open heart from Americans to Americans.

Freedom of Religion is one of the core principles of this country and it isn't selective but rather applies to all men who are created equal with the same human rights to pursue their choices under a government that was ideally designed to ensure that the American dream is not a blanket but a fantastically colorful and diverse quilt of individuality.

forgiveness is for the one who forgives, not the forgiven. when it is resisted and/or denies, bitterness rises up in its place and plants seeds of destruction no different than those that grew into the tragedy of 9/11.

peace be upon us all.

Originally posted by airspoon

I think that it is good that a Mosque is going to be built there. I guess it's better than a peep-show or adult book store. It's certainly better than a bank or a prison.

--airspoon

Agreed.

but its not just better than a peep show... its better than the WTC!

WTC was home of endless insider trading scandals, black budgets, faux news,

I challenge anyone to go through the wikipedia lists of tenants at WTC1,2,7 one by one and google search the names of the tenants with the words "scandal" "fraud" "black budget" "insider trading" "corrupt" "unethical" "Bribery" "tax fraud", and "document falsification"; etc.

simple examples, google:

solomon smith barney scandal
fuji bank scandal
dod black budget wtc
morgan stanley fraud
Thacher Proffitt & Wood, insider trading
Oppenheimer Funds fraud
sun microsystems insider trading
waterfront commision unethical corrupt
xerox accounting fraud
"marsh usa" secret commission
"lehman brothers" insider trading
"Zim American Israeli" corrupt
"american international group" fraud
"Fiduciary Trust Company" fraud



IT IS ENDLESS. In MY RESEARCH I have found that virtually every tenant at WTC complex was/is DIRTY.

WTC DID NOT REPRESENT ME AS AN AMERICAN!

I'm glad its gone. Glad to see people there praying for forgiveness.

A mosque is fine with me; I would have preferred an organic blueberry farm... but you can't be picky; besides the fruit would probably be toxic.

I prefer freedom of religion over freedom of corruption any day.

Sri Oracle

I'm going to stop editing now to add items to my list... you get the point.


[edit on 17-7-2010 by Sri Oracle]

reply to post by mishigas



I mis-spoke and I stand corrected. What I ment is that most people don't believe the official story, not literally that it was an "inside job". Thanks for helping me clarify that, I guess I hear that term so much, I put it down without thinking about it.

But like I stated in my last post, that was not the only thread like that on ATS, I merely used it as an example. If you would be so kind as to look through the thread I linked to, you will see many examples of mainstream polls if that better suits your fancy.



"People can believe the OS and still believe that they are not telling us the whole truth."



I agree with you to a point, but that is a really broad statement that could mean many things to many different individuals. Some of the truth they are not telling you could change the entire OS. To me it's either you believe the official story, or you have doubts about it and therefore you dont believe the official story. I don't think you can have it both ways, but thats just my opinion.





[edit on 7/17/2010 by Hatcookie]

[edit on 7/17/2010 by Hatcookie]

Given the chance, would any of you try and delay the opening of this mosque on ground zero? Not destroy the building but halt the buildings' construction... I was just thinking of a sitting protest on the construction site...Say you did live in New York, would you?

Maybe they should build a mosque, cathederal, and temple at the site. Each group could claim it's sacred holy ground. The Mormons could also claim that the site is actually the location where Moroni buried the plates and Joseph Smith dug them up, so build a Mormon temple too.
The Neo-Temple Mount Moriah of Moroni; sure why not? Better that kind of thing than another JP Morgan Rothschild Rockefeller Center.

Originally posted by Mobius1974
reply to post by The_Zomar

 

Please no truthers... this was meant to be an intelligent conversation!
...2nd line

[edit on 16-7-2010 by Mobius1974]

By that statement I take it you believe the official version of the facts? That a plane hit the pentagon and evaporated with no CCTV footage on one of the most secure buildings in the world? That when a steel structure building has never come down before due to Fire or Impact that it was normal for 3 to come down on the same day? That... Nevermind... A picture speaks a THOUSAND words...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/56e603bf841c.gif[/atsimg]

reply to post by Sri Oracle


here here!

i never did look into those things but i suspected it and i felt it in my gut.
so i knew that there are many things at work and Karma never calls in sick.

not that anyone deserved to die that way but we all come to life knowing we must exit when we are done. sometimes we volunteer to help teach ourselves and our comrades an important lesson. the important lessons are the hard ones to get a grasp of and usually it requires tragedy to get our attention in order to think about things we'd never contemplate or care about, otherwise.

honesty
integrity
mercy
forgiveness
tolerance
courage

we are at least learning those things from the lesson of 9/11.
those are just the ones i recognize.

reply to post by infolurker


If you did more than google the name ... you would know IT DOES NOT signify a victory over spain.. Nor does it mean anything sinister.. I would have jumped all over thet, if that was true.

It was a Mosque that was captured then recaptured..... That is the extent of conspiracy in the name!

reply to post by lifttheveil


That is one heck of a assumption... No I dont believe the official story...
I believe we were and are being lied to...

The fact that you took that one sentence and twisted it, just to give you a chance to raise your hand and yell "guess what I know"

I was trying to keep members like yourself from overwhelming the thread with lengthy posts about the issue.

Go find another thread to impress people with how much you know about "The truth of 9/11"