'Suicide' Billboard Along NJ Highway Sparks Uproar

Reply to post by OTTOKARMA

Are you purposely ignoring what I am saying or is it your not understanding what is written.

I have as much right to judge that as you do to judge me for that. My judgement though has nothing to do with stopping others. If they want to more power to them, but I feel it is selfish and wrong.

I have experienced both cases, how about you?

Raist


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

To direct the sentiments of this thread toward conspiracy...

If government is against euthanasia (as it has shown itself to be,
eg; Kervorkian vs Government) then this issue actually becomes
ANTI-CONSPIRACY.

My reasoning:

Government stands the most to gain from the death of non-productive
members of society who are considering euthanasia.

Terminally ill or psychologically ill people are a very expensive segment
of our population.

They contribute nothing to society and drain the resources available
to others. Most of these patients are elderly and as such drain SSI funds
and insurance company funds....

My point is...Governments and Insurance companies "should" be the loudest
proponents of assisted suicide....but they are not

This is a moral issue...not a conspiracy

edit to add: IMO, It is your life, do with it as you please.

(I actually didn't edit...I just like the easy segue "edit to add" offers

I watched my grandfather die a long, painful, embarrassing death due to parkinson's disease.

Not only was a once WWII veteran incapicitated, it drained all the money he worked hard and couldnn't leave my grandmother because it took a year for him to die.

And left her broke.

Yes, I 100% agree with this.

Ohhh double post. Haven't done that in a while.

[edit on 16-7-2010 by nixie_nox]

reply to post by darkelf


To suffer is to be human, to steal from Buddhist wisdom. A life without suffering is not life.

That may sound sadistic yes, but I have hopes that they can keep pain away in the final hours.

I watched my Grandmother die for 10 years, losing her mind and sanity. Did she suffer? Yes. Would I want them to die, no. Dignity seems to be some kind of important aspect at the end of life I do not understand. My grandmother lived for a little over 90 years. She died not knowing much and senile. But she had not lost any dignity in my eyes.

Maybe I'm a fool. But inhuman is acting in such a way as to make death readily available. I really can't say I have an answer, but that does not mean F it all, let them die. It means I don't have an answer.

[edit on 16-7-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 16-7-2010 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by nixie_nox
I watched my grandfather die a long, painful, embarrassing death due to parkinson's disease.

Not only was a once WWII veteran incapicitated, it drained all the money he worked hard and couldnn't leave my grandmother because it took a year for him to die.

And left her broke.

Yes, I 100% agree with this.

Drained all the money is the definitive item to attend to. Lifelong caregiver, nurse, administrator, special educator. I have seen pain.
Plus all my family is passed. Not to mention all the friends. Why me? IDK.
I could give you a hundred examples, but you can look them up.
I do not want to be suffering in pain, away from everything I love, locked in a hospital while the janitor, cook, patient care provider, nurse, critical care nurse, doctor, specialist, surgeon, hospital security, administration, clerical staff, owners, and investors suck the state and my estate through a straw, while I suffer.
I hope to wander into the wilderness. I want my whitened bones found in a riverbed, empty eye sockets gazing at the stars. This is not a logical scenario, some foo will call the ambulance and put me in the loving hands of the system. Grabby hands.
Give me a choice and let me drink the hemlock, I will take it.
Yes I believe in God. God knows me so well, and loves me so dear, God knows and I will trust my God to understand.
Love to you.

reply to post by CestLaVie


Well if you believe in God, how do you know it was all to make you who you are? How do you know you understand it right? There's thousands of questions for it.

Suicide isn't painless when you leave everyone in pain

reply to post by Gorman91

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by darkelf

 

To suffer is to be human, to steal from Buddhist wisdom. A life without suffering is not life.

Suffering is a lesson to be used after the suffering is over. If there is no life expected after the suffering, what is the point. I've suffered much and grown stronger for it. Letting someone suffer for no reason is sadistic.

That may sound sadistic yes, but I have hopes that they can keep pain away in the final hours.

You're right it is sadistic, and no they often won't or can't keep the pain away in the final months, weeks or hours.

I watched my Grandmother die for 10 years, losing her mind and sanity. Did she suffer? Yes. Would I want them to die, no. Dignity seems to be some kind of important aspect at the end of life I do not understand. My grandmother lived for a little over 90 years. She died not knowing much and senile. But she had not lost any dignity in my eyes.

I'm sorry for your loss. But dignity is not in how you see others, it is in how we see ourselves. How do you think you would feel to have you children or anyone else care for you when you are helpless as an infant. Would you be ok with being spoon feed and diapered. Then left in your soiled diapers until someone just happens to check in on you. That was the reality of hospice for my parents. My parents did not lose dignity in my eyes. They lost it in their own eyes.

Maybe I'm a fool. But inhuman is acting in such a way as to make death readily available. I really can't say I have an answer, but that does not mean F it all, let them die. It means I don't have an answer.

You're not a fool, but I think you may be naive. I don't understand why we can't make death available to those who are terminal. It shouldn't be mandatory but they should have a choice. When I had cancer, I never once thought about suicide as an option because I had a good chance for survival. But if I were terminal, I'd want that choice. Right now, the only choice I have is to have a living will with a no heroic measures and a DNR clause.

reply to post by darkelf


I'd get to cherish a little bit more time with friends. Say my peace. Do my business. The bucket list, as it is called. And how we see ourselves is always flawed. That is why there are countless people suffering for no reason because they want to look good, not be too fat, no to be too skinny, have this, have that, etc etc. And then now comes dignity. Call me a free lancer through life but I could hardly care what condition I've been in life so long as I was still alive. I've been fat, skinny, and now I'm in between. I've had problems with twitches and OCD and had brain scans for it, and beat the need to touch things an even number of times and repeat sentences by my own desire to stop. I've had asthma and 1/4th lung capacity, and I've been healthy and had full lung capacity. I've seen a lot in a short life time. It could just as easily be argued "why should I fight twitches if they will always find a way back when you're under stress?" I'd be so much happier if I just followed my OCD rules and was a twitchy quirky drooling fool. It would be so much easier. Why fight it if I know I will die still having the mental need to repeat a sentence and touch something 4 x each? Why Suffer? Same thing for Asthma. Why fight asthma? I will never heal from it. I will always have lower lung strength and my lungs will always be pathetic against problems. Why should I bother? It's constant struggle and suffering. If I do not feel the intense burning of intense exercise It will return. If I don't abuse my heart at 180 or 190 heart rate, the asthma will return and I will not be able to breathe. So why should I suffer?

The list goes on and on for the argument. I can certainly see why it would be easier.

So why bother living a life you know will always be suffering?

The hell do I know. I'll steal a logo here. Just do it.

That is what I am getting at. Start off small, and eventually it will all come down. Why live a life of needless suffering? Well the. Why live at all?

For me, it is a fact that I will live a life of suffering I will never see end, and I will always have it to the day I die.

So I don't have an answer. But to begin by saying allow death is to repeat the mistakes of the past.

Eugenics and extremes of not caring about life all started with the acceptance of people just dieing or choosing death to better themselves and others.

That is what I fear for. The future of such acceptance based on the dozens of historic examples of what happens a generation or two later.

So maybe I have no dignity in myself. Or maybe I'me above the influence of dignity. Either way, if for no other reason, seeing my grandmother suffer made me embolden in the fight for my own life. The pointless miserable struggle of life that we all eventually lose. Why fight at all? I don't know. Just do it.

I actually own the book "Final Exit" which basically teaches people different methods to kill themselves. I have read that book many times and included with the instructions are many touching personal stories. The issue of suicide goes deep, however I can clearly see the different points of view.

reply to post by Gorman91


Gorman you missed my point. I am disabled. I can't sit upright for more than a few hours. I am in constant pain. For me, that is not a reson to end life. I may suffer much more before I leave this earth.

The point is when the doctors say you only have a few months left because we can do nothing more to keep you alive, I want to go out on my own terms. Hopefully, I have another ten years or so before that happens. And I plan to enjoy life as much as possible until then. It's a matter of quality of life not quantity of life.

reply to post by darkelf


Quality is in the head though. I've seen a clear distinction between cultures on such matters. This American fail culture of the modern era is hated by the world and honestly I'm beginning to see why. We think ther slightest transgress against whatever the self wants is evil. There's plenty good in it, but there's plenty fail in this belief. if you're disabled I am sorry for you. But I've been physically incapable of walking in the past during asthma attacks, and during twitch fits. I lived with it. Eventually I defeated it. But if I got lazy, It would return. And eventually I will be disabled at a certain age, and that's life I suppose. Make it the best. You control the quality, not your health.

I understand the desire, I just don't want the state to allow it. If you're going to kill yourself, its going to happen. But I don't think its really logical for the state to say its ok when the last time they did a generation later doctors began taking the liberty themselves.

I can understand full well the desire to die. In such a case, perhaps the best situation is simply a forced comma and let them die when its their time. Even that's pushing it for me because of past events like such. I don't favor some kind of killer pill or something and it still seems illogical.

if you have a few weeks left to die, enjoy them. Don't pop a pill and die.

[edit on 16-7-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 16-7-2010 by Gorman91]

if you have a few weeks left to die, enjoy them. Don't pop a pill and die.

Depends if you can enjoy those few weeks.

If I'm going to spend the rest of my life in pain (days, weeks, months, or years), I'd want to die. What's the point of living in pain?



[edit on 16-7-2010 by greyartist]

[edit on 16-7-2010 by greyartist]

reply to post by greyartist


I do. I'm pretty swell. I'm pretty sure most people on the Earth live a life of suffering, and yet they are some of the happiest people on Earth. You make the best of what you have. What I've noticed in America is the inability to know how to do this and it is troubling.

[edit on 16-7-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Raist



How about me ?

Ok lets start

My mother suffered almost 7 years ina bed with a terrible disease, #ting herself in bed, a long agony, she died , her hand cramped ,her face painted with the mask of agony

my father ended with a long cancer ,asking me to end his days

My girlfriend shot herself 12 years ago after being diagnosed with leucemia

any questions ?


[edit on 16-7-2010 by OTTOKARMA]

I do. I'm pretty swell. I'm pretty sure most people on the Earth live a life of suffering, and yet they are some of the happiest people on Earth. You make the best of what you have. What I've noticed in America is the inability to know how to do this and it is troubling.

Well I'm from the UK, but not that that matters really. I do agree with you that people can live happily no matter what, but for me personally, I could never live a full year in pure agony knowing I was going to die. I just can't justify that. That's my right. Sure, life is precious, but not with agony.

The weird thing is I look at people like Stephen Hawkin and think WHY GO ON? but again, I think how much we'd have lost if he chose to end it. I just think we should have the right to choose what we do with our own lives without all the legal bull#... eg. anyone who accompanies me to a suicide centre will be prosecuted?! That's idiotic no?

reply to post by Raist


selfish?? really?? ones own life is not their own then?? freedom over ones own body?

come on, once we no longer fear death, the NWO will officially have an empty hand, no more cards to play... suicide is the joker card!

in closing, I too would be heart broken if someone I knew committed suicide...UNLESS they were suffering, then I would want to help them somehow..i shot a dog once that was suffering after being mauled...

oops!! I shoulda spent $10k at the vet huh? humaine that way huh sheeple

This is a very emotionally charged subject and we are seeing it from different perspectives. I understand where you are coming from becase that was how I used to believe. I changed my opinion when I watched my parents die. My dad died peacefully in his sleep from a massive heart attack. My mom was not as lucky. She suffered terribly in her last month of life and we prayed with and for her that it would end quickly. No one should have to suffer like that. I still have a good life even with my disabilities. But I don't want my family and friends to have to go through the pain and frustration that I went through watching my mom suffer the way she did. It was the longest month of my life.

reply to post by nixie_nox


it hurts so bad doesn't it??? I truly mourn for your loss as I feel exactly what you feel... the anger/hurt for me would primarily be for the "dr's" and health management (i.e. business) system..sickening that a bunch of spoiled rich kids become doctors, so they can ensure their families have everything, at the expense of a brave man!!! most doctors are spineless little cowards, never been punched in the face, most never served their country.. most doctors are generational families with long doctor lineages.. pill pushers!!! little higher than drug dealers.....

trauma doctors ARE THE EXCEPTION!!!