Howdy RS

IF the trucker stated that Edward used conventional equipment would I believe him?

Yes I would have believed him

Hans: Why? So whatever he said you’d believe him. I see you have a much higher regards for the truthfulness of humans than I

but instead he said he saw the impossible happen; a 60 ton rock moved onto his truck without any type of equipment around. A rock so big that a 600 horsepower crane can only lift one end and drag it around (this was on another video).

Hans: Yes that was his claim-why should we believe him?

Why would someone give testimony on camera, and lie about a simple moving of freight? The trucker had no reason to lie and stated what he saw.

Hans: It is very common for people to make claims that have no basis in fact. No reason to not lie? What if he wanted to support the idea that Ed had magic powers? You may wish to look at the literature on fakery amongst religious people.

My long list is not of hearsay as you have stated.

Hans: My apologies not all of it was hearsay some were first hand claims

As to Childress making stuff up in Tibetan, very doubtful.

Hans: Based on what evidence?

Childress put the notes of the Tibetans moving the rocks through the air in his book, it was a copy of the original sent to him by a military man who watched the whole thing happen in front of him, so it was a copy of a written first hand account

Hans: A second hand account is not evidence. In law a statement or claim has weight if given under oath. In science a statement or claim has no weight unless backed by evidence. Example below

I claim that I can pick up a 203mm artillery shell and throw it hard enough that goes into orbit. I can put that in a video. Another person can make another video and state that he saw me do it. Question did I do it?

Nope not at all.

I realize that belief in such things is very important to many people but the belief is just that – a belief. Don’t expect others to be so accepting of wild claims without evidence....Did I mention I can put an 8” artillery shell into orbit by throwing it? By your demonstrated criteria you must accept that as reality. Whereas it is not real.

Tesla and Keeley are others that made great discoveries that are interesting that have not been rediscovered. To state that Nikola Tesla lied about his discoveries would be a great disgrace

Hans: He made many claims how do you know which ones were real and which ones where not? It is a greater disgrace to be gullible than basis acceptance of a claim on evidence.

, so why pick on Edward Leedskalnin, when his Coral Castle stands as a great testimony that things that are still unknown to the rest of the world can be done.

Hans: No it is testimony to his ability to do good work with conventional means while perplexing people with stories. I’m sure he is laughing now at how his stories have been taken as truth or he like many others have deceived themselves into believing they have special gifts.

There are many people in the world discovering his discoveries on electricity and magnetism, just go to YouTube and watch all of the people remaking his experiments.

Hans: Yep and no one can duplicate his alleged magical results. Claims are not reality. The bottom line on Ed is that someone will need to create a magical way to do what he/others claims he did. Until then it remains just an empty possibility.

Originally posted by Hanslune
Hans: Yes that was his claim-why should we believe him?

You shouldn't. Belief is for the lazy and the ignorant. What you should do is look into matters for yourself. None of the wanna-be debunkers in this thread seem to know a single thing about Leedskalnin's amazing accomplishments, and are just spouting generic debunking lines they've heard other people use like parrots.

Leedskalnin has left us many clues as to how he actually did it, like his theories on magnetic current. If his work can be so easily dismissed, them please explain to me how his Perpetual Motion Holder works according to the conventional scientific understanding.

The reason that Coral Castle persists as a mysterious location is precisely because of the eye-witness accounts of its creation and enigmatic creator.
If Leedskalnin used conventional means to build Coral Castle, there would be no reason to be secretive about it, especially to the degree to which he took that secrecy. Add to this his curious books challenging conventional electrical and magnetic theory, and a bevy of unexplainable contraptions and equipments. The reason this is a persistent story is not because people have invented complexities about something simple, it is precisely because there exists a legitimate unsolved mystery.

Recent attempts to repair damaged parts of Coral Castle have been imperfect even with all the equipment and engineering knowledge of the present day.

However Ed built his Castle was not conventional. Debunking is an important part of critical thinking and analysis, but there are many debunkers who are simply skeptics for the sake of skepticism, and I don't believe they serve any constructive purpose. The same can be said for unquestioning believers in fantastical thinking.

Howdy Cusp

You shouldn't. Belief is for the lazy and the ignorant. What you should do is look into matters for yourself. None of the wanna-be debunkers in this thread seem to know a single thing about Leedskalnin's amazing accomplishments, and are just spouting generic debunking lines they've heard other people use like parrots.

Hans: Really I don’t know anything about coral castle. May I ask how many times you’ve been there....oh hint I use to live in Florida. Oh and are you not just repeating what you've been told to believe by youtubes and websites? Or have you conducted an exhaustive, multi-discipline investigation on the site?

However you didn’t answer the question, why should we believe him? Why do you dismiss pictures of him with tripods and pulleys?

Leedskalnin has left us many clues as to how he actually did it, like his theories on magnetic current.

Hans: Okay do they work? The answer is no as far as I know do you have evidence that his theories did work?

If his work can be so easily dismissed, them please explain to me how his Perpetual Motion Holder works according to the conventional scientific understanding.

Hans: Please demonstrate that it does what alternatives claim it does – can it lift non-magnetic rocks?

The only proof that will prove that Ed used magical means is to recreate those and as of now some sixty years later no one has but one can look at clear pictures of him using tripods to lift rocks. Makes you think eh?

[edit on 21/7/10 by Hanslune]

Howdy RS

You want to debunk Edward Leedskalnin, Nikola Tesla? And the truck driver and others who were first hand witnesses? Why? Don't you trust people that have proven themselves at doing what they have done and shown others what they have done.

Hans: I explained it to you above did you not comprehend? If everyone is honest why do we have courts? Ed debunked himself with the photographs he allowed to be taken of him moving blocks.

If I can see with my own eyes that miracles have been done, then I won't stand in the way of progress. Edward did miracles, but he used a science that we are still ignorant about.

Hans: Incorrect you been TOLD he did that and you have accepted it without seeing evidence to support it. Simple blind belief and refusal to see the evidence that he used conventional engineering techniques.

Let's see any person that is 5 feet tall and weighs approximately 100 pounds move 3 million pounds of rock and put all of the rock into a castle like Leadskalnin did, and in the same amount of time all by himself/herself

What is your source for 3,000,000? Many sources say 1,000 tons. You may wish to read a basic text on mechanical engineering. As Ed said himself he used leverage.

and they can use heavy equipment of any type to do it with, but they have to do it all by himself/herself.

Hans: Yes and he had 31 years and why isn’t a tripod with lifting shackles equipment? You make it sound like he did it with his bear hands! LOL

Furthermore, we don't want to see any of the rock broken or destroyed

Hans: Quite a claim but let’s accept it for a moment why wouldn’t he just replace anything he broke? Why do you consider that amazing? Most stone masons who break something simply reshape the piece into a smaller component and use it elsewhere. His quarry exist do a volume measurement. There are number of smaller unique pieces I suspect those are from broken pieces.

No one person can do the same thing today with any type of equipment, in the same amount of time that Edward rebuilt his Coral Castle in. The first thing I would want to see them work on would be his revolving gate that weighs 9 tons that a little girl could swing open and shut with a push of a finger that an engineering firm stated had to be built with lasers to be so precise in order to spin like it used to.

Hans: How do you know that, you’re simply make unsupportive statements? You’re making an argument from personal incredulity, since you cannot understand it, and couldn’t do it – he must by default have used magic. The gate use a truck ball bearing to allow it to swing, something I suspect the Egyptians didn’t have nor lasers LOL

To build Coral Castle all by himself twice is a fantastic feat of engineering

Hans: Ah we agree


A challenge to the believers please state for me which of the magical method you believe ED used to build Coral Castle? Did he use:

Anti-gravity
Magnetic something
Vibration/sounds
Atomic shifting
Telekinesis
Other

Please let me know which one it was and why it couldn't be one of the others?

[edit on 21/7/10 by Hanslune]

Originally posted by Hanslune

If his work can be so easily dismissed, them please explain to me how his Perpetual Motion Holder works according to the conventional scientific understanding.

Hans: Please demonstrate that it does what alternatives claim it does – can it lift non-magnetic rocks?

The only proof that will prove that Ed used magical means is to recreate those and as of now some sixty years later no one has but one can look at clear pictures of him using tripods to lift rocks. Makes you think eh?

[edit on 21/7/10 by Hanslune]

You obviously have no idea what the PPM is do you? It was never claimed that it could lift non magnetic rocks.
It's just a modified electro magnet that can continue to hold a piece of metal after you remove the power source.
I've made one before, they are simple to make. It suggests there may be something to his ideas on magnetic current. Unless someone can explain why it works using conventional physics, which I would really love to hear.

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
Its not a great unsolved mystery. A photo of him exists showing one of his structures with a rather complex pulley system and A frame, with his hand on it, there is nothing to suggest that he could not move these objects with simple tools using good old physics. He was raised in a stone mason family, so moving blocks, cutting and quarrying was his expertise since he was a young boy....My family are stone masons, and I have no trouble believing that they can pretty much work out how to move any size rock if they need to, and have seen them do large boulders or slabs with one or two people, rope, levers and fulcrums......

The Magnetism theory is bunk, no one gets it to work today, let alone then.

[edit on 15-7-2010 by zazzafrazz]

Actually, he himself claimed he knew the "secrects of the pyramids". He would only work at night. There was one 'neighbour' witness who saw hime 'floating with rocks as if they were weightless'.

And another interesting fact, the 'black box' dissappeared after he died.

Also, there was not only the issue of how he could move those heavy stones with only a tripod (btw, the stones are way too heavy for that, that was proven in a documentary), but there was also a very special stone. A stone with very long hole in it, that functioned as the backbone of a spinning-door. How do you explain that?

Since he 'claimed' only to use his hands, the tripod and the black box.

Why would he even claim he 'knew the secrets of the pyramids' and write books about magnets?

Regardless of whether you believe the Coral Castle was constructed using coventional physics, or some unknown science, one thing keeps nagging at me while reading this thread.

The following are facts:

1) The pickup truck Edward Leedskalnin used to transport blocks of coral was an unknown year "Republic Model Pickup." See Wikipedia; See National register of Historic Places 2009-03-13.

2) Republic built pickup trucks in the early 1900's, and their heaviest flat-bed trucks, tractors, and pickups had chasses capable of supporting 4, 6, and even 8 ton loads. See Wikipedia; See Republic Truck Pamphlets 1913-1927.

3) The average stones at the Coral Castle weigh 15 tons. The largest stone weighs over 30 tons. See National Register of Historic Places 2008-14-12.

A stone weighing 15 tons would crush the chasse of the pickup truck allegedly used to transport the rocks, leaving one to speculate that

a) Either the truck was used for smaller stones, and we do not know how the 15 ton-30 ton stones were moved 40 miles from quarry to site (as the pickup truck is always referenced as the moving vehicle); or

b) The stones did not have a mass weighing 15 tons to 3o tons upon transport.

Now, as I said before, I do not advocate one methodology or another, but the FACTS raise significant questions regarding how the stones were transported, regardless of whether you believe the "little green men" theories or believe it was simple fulcrums and pivots.

Respectfully,

Kyre