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Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

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posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 07:01 PM
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Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse


www.guardian.co.uk

It was meant to be the document that put a lid on the clerical sex abuse scandals that have swept the Roman Catholic world

the Vatican stoked the anger of liberal Catholics and women's groups by including a provision in its revised decree that made the "attempted ordination" of women one of the gravest crimes in ecclesiastical law.

The change put the "offence" on a par with the sex abuse of minors.

Why any self-respecting woman would want to remain part of an organisation that regards their
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 07:01 PM
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If you understand what consecration means and and then think about how not allowing women to be part of this group of people in any way possible as per the catholic church you must ask yourself.

Because of consecration's meaning, basically either the roman catholic church either considers themselves god or considers women as low lifes, or perhaps both.

If you look at the position and influence that a pope yields that makes this question a little eaiser to answer, if in fact this is a correct question to begin with.

Thoughts ATSers?

www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


For a more balanced view of what this document is about:


BREAKING NEWS -- ‘Most serious crimes’
New Vatican norms published today tougher on pervert priests, include child porn, abuses of confessional secrecy, heresy, schism and attempts to ordain women.

In 2001 the Holy Father John Paul II promulgated a very important document, the Motu Proprio "Sacramentorum sanctitatis tutela," which gave the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith responsibility to deal with and judge a series of particularly serious crimes within the ambit of canon law. This responsibility had previously been attributed also to other dicasteries, or was not completely clear.

The Motu Proprio (the "law" in the strict sense) was accompanied by a series of practical and procedural Norms, known as "Normae de gravioribus delictis." Over the nine years since then, experience has naturally suggested that these Norms be integrated and updated, so as to streamline and simplify the procedures and make them more effective, and to take account of new problems. This has been achieved principally by the Pope attributing new "faculties" to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith; faculties which, however, were not organically integrated into the initial Norms. This has now come about, within the context of a systematic revision of those Norms.

The serious crimes to which the regulations referred concerned vital aspects of Church life: the Sacraments of the Eucharist and of Penance, but also sexual abuse committed by a priest against a minor under the age of eighteen.

The vast public echo this latter kind of crime has had over recent years has attracted great attention and generated intense debate on the norms and procedures applied by the Church to judge and punish such acts.

It is right, then, that there should be complete clarity concerning the regulations currently in force in this field, and that these regulations be presented organically so as to facilitate the work of the people who deal with these matters.

Read more: California Catholic Daily


Here is the introductory and explanitory letter and an outline of the document: Zenit

Here is the document itself: Norms Addressing "Gravioribus Delictis"

Edit to add:

The Guardian article is an excellent example of a non sequitur, a classic example of fallacious logic:


Non sequitur – a conclusion that has no apparent connection to the premises or reasons.


This Latin phrase means “it does not follow” and refers to a conclusion that has no apparent connection to the reasons. Non sequiturs occur when writers omit a step in an otherwise logical chain of sequential reasoning, assuming that readers agree with the highly contestable claims of others. Two events may occur sequentially, but one may not necessarily be the cause of the other. This fallacy is part of the false cause fallacy, except that this fallacy occurs specifically due to the sequence of two unrelated events.

Source



Just because female ordinations are discussed in the same document as the sex abuse scandals doesn't mean the Vatican has put these issues "on par" with each other. It means that these crimes are to be dealt with directly by the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith instead of through the local bishop.

Also saying that because the Church is against female ordination that it sees women as inferior is just plain silly. Try telling that to all the Protestants who think Catholics worshop Mary.


Either we worshop the "goddess Mary" or we hate women and want to enslave them. C'mon folks, if you're gonna bash the Church, at least try to keep your stories strait.





[edit on 7/15/10 by FortAnthem]



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Because of consecration's meaning, basically either the roman catholic church either considers themselves god or considers women as low lifes, or perhaps both.


I believe you are right on both counts.

I challenge ANY Catholic.. Especially His UNHoliness The Dope.. I mean Pope to show me in the Bible where it says a woman cannot be an ordained minister.

Hey Popey.. you wanna talk smack.. back it up.

The problem here is that most Catholics are not encouraged to read the bible much less really know and live by what it says. They are expected to leave the interruption up to the Priests and follow their every word.. like Sheep.. this is the main reason so many people get disillusioned with that rouge faction that calls itself a part of Christianity. There is no truth in it.. people recognize that.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


So far the Catholic church has been completely fine with the sexual abuse of minors so does this mean lots of women can be priests now?
If they truly considered sexual abuse of children to be a serious matter the pope would hand himself over to the local police.

This would usually annoy me but the Catholic church has just become something I can roast marshmellows on. They try rebuild their rep over their rape victims.. by calling all women inherently evil?

Yet again. Smart.


[edit on 15-7-2010 by riley]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 08:17 AM
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Women worldwide should take out some kind of collective law suit against the vatican IMO.
To call a woman as bad as a child abuser just because she wants a job which only men are allowed to do is plain crazy,not to mention discrimination/misogonistic.

I thought only the taliban traet women like dirt-apparently I was wrong...



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 08:26 AM
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That any woman in her right mind would belong to and support an organization that takes the stance on women this church does is beyond me. But conditioning from birth is a pretty huge thing to overcome. Can't even go there. I think they have some serious issues with, among other things, on the one hand worshiping a woman and on the other hand dismissing women.

Edit to add that just because the two items happened to show up in the same list or report doesn't necessarily make them equally heinous either.

[edit on 7/17/2010 by ~Lucidity]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 08:42 AM
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Apparently, a big dose of misogyny is easier to swallow when administered by a man in a dress.

One must take one's medicine to maintain spiritual health.



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