How you know God (or a higher power) Exists.

Feel free to dispute, I would greatly appreciate all opinions (mature only please)

I have been thinking in regards to Proving a higher power exists vs Science and such.
SO.. My thought is this...
Nothing new (original) has ever been created since the world/universe has been created. Everything we create or manipulate is using building blocks from the original design and changing it into something "recycled" but new.
There has NEVER been something new created in the existence of.. well existence.

Science proves this. You cannot create anything new you can only use building blocks of previous models of life, molecules, DNA etc etc.
So if God or a higher power does not exist or if intelligent design is not true.. Than how come nothing has ever been created to disprove it.
Even evolution uses building blocks from the original model of cells.

Btw.. I used to be 100% science believer up to about 6 months ago.
Now I can't ever follow that same faith.

Please tell me your thoughts on this. If you can prove me wrong please do, i encourage a good debate.
Thanks for your time. I look forward to your comments.

Words we use all the time like "luck", "coincedence", "good fortune", "fate", "destiny" and on and on are all really proof. Even if some won't attribute these things to a higher power, they make these things their higher power by doing so.

reply to post by Endure


Agreed! For sure, but in essence these things are just words. To explain what they are is near impossible. Its hard to even fathom the size of the universe or our planet or life in general.. And even harder to Fathom how something brand new with an original blue print and no use of any recycled building blocks could ever be created.
Its mind blowing to consider that.

I'm curious as to why you can never go back to that faith even though science is the opposite of faith. Also you can never know for sure whether their is a higher being or if there is what it or they are so it is pointless to even wonder about, I am spiritual but not religious, religion ruins everything.

Originally posted by srbouska
reply to post by Endure

 

Agreed! For sure, but in essence these things are just words. To explain what they are is near impossible. Its hard to even fathom the size of the universe or our planet or life in general.. And even harder to Fathom how something brand new with an original blue print and no use of any recycled building blocks could ever be created.
Its mind blowing to consider that.

Yeah it is, and that is where so many claim "coincedence" lol.

Originally posted by XxRagingxPandaxX
I'm curious as to why you can never go back to that faith even though science is the opposite of faith. Also you can never know for sure whether their is a higher being or if there is what it or they are so it is pointless to even wonder about, I am spiritual but not religious, religion ruins everything.

Interestingly enough, I approached my spirtuality scientifically, which led me to faith. And I agree, when faith is appointed a leadership structure of men, (religion), bad things come soon.

[edit on 15-7-2010 by Endure]

Personally, I feel proof of the existence of the divine is clearly evident in the universe and the world around us, my original belief really stems from a few highly spiritual experiences I've had. (not Christian, more transcendental)

I think one of the reasons that no one will ever be able to "prove" that God doesn't exist is that it is fundamentally impossible to accurately describe and categorize the divine. Since "God", or the divine root, is unmanifest and unimaginable it is impossible to describe it in any rational way. If we try to describe something that is unmanifest we have to use comparative language and relate it to other, more Earthly things, that we can explain and understand, however, if we accept a certain description of "God" then we are no longer describing "God" but a mental concept which we have made manifest. This is a fairly complex concept that most people, both "Religious" and "Atheist", don't really understand.

To me, at least, "God" is everything, all existence, every star, every planet, every person and every blade of grass all the way down to the smallest possible particle. God is all, seemingly separate, as in our apparent separation from each other, yet one and whole as one existence, of which we are an intimate part.

When i said that i cant turn back to the "faith " of science i meant it because faith is believing on something without evidence... science gives evidence of how something works.. but not the sole reason of why. you still have to go of faith even in science.

But the sole question remains, is there or has there ever been anything newly created without using previous models?
I've spent a long time looking this up and even just recently a scientist has "created an organism" *See link* back in May.
But its still synthetic... nothing new.
Any ideas?

www.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by srbouska
When i said that i cant turn back to the "faith " of science i meant it because faith is believing on something without evidence... science gives evidence of how something works.. but not the sole reason of why. you still have to go of faith even in science.

But the sole question remains, is there or has there ever been anything newly created without using previous models?
I've spent a long time looking this up and even just recently a scientist has "created an organism" *See link* back in May.
But its still synthetic... nothing new.
Any ideas?

www.bbc.co.uk...

The answer is no. The word create is a misnomer because everything is already created. All we can do is form things using that creation.

reply to post by srbouska

Explanation: S&F!

Here is how I know...

[url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread394966/pg17#pid5645705]Can anyone define what God is? (post to

Well well a higher power ....the question seems how would i know a higher power exists....very interesting....well for me it is an easy one....I know a higher power exists as i am a continuous abductee ....for me to state that alone could make me nuts...in which case i just might be as just cause i have been abducted many times in my life the question for me would be why does that make the abductors a higher power...just cause i might be able to go out and capture mice and then decide their fate does that make me a higher power....just cause we go out in the wild capture living creatures and do a disection on them does that make us the higher power....so the question may be what constitutes a higher power....just cause one has control over another being wether it be through force or intelligence or through fear or slavery....what makes something a higher power.....are we a higher power than an ant....i believe a higher power is just something that comes from within which gives us the strength to over come the uknown so as we might progress into the future....everyday i get up in the morning and i take a breath...i am ALIVE,,,,,,,,

"The answer is no. The word create is a misnomer because everything is already created. All we can do is form things using that creation."

Exactly, even science has to come down to that same fact...
Personaly ( and i know this is a topic for another forum) that science will get to a point where they will not be able to go any further past that same point without faith.
Thank you

Intelligent design is, for me at least, the only reasonable explanation. All you have to do is take a look at the technology that is found in nature to realize that nature, whatever it is, is the most intelligent mechanism ever.

For example, flight has only been around for a hundred years; the technology to create flight is very complicated and precise-nature created it a long time ago, and we only learned how to fly by copying birds!

There are of course endless examples of the amazing power of nature's technology, and to me it seems just silly to think it's all just genes and DNA that came from a lightning bolt hitting some primordial soup.

reply to post by srbouska


i know for sure because i was in a horrible car accident and walked away without a scratch.

that alone doesnt prove it.. but the 20 minutes before the impact, until the impact occured wss enough for me to believe.

something tried guiding me down roads and paths i had never taken before. and if i had payed attention the accident wouldnt have happened. my normal route lead to my accident. i dont know why i wasnt hurt.

then, besides that, a few years later i was upset and began arguing with god, or my subconscious like my thread subconscious god suggests, and i told god i was dun, i had enough. if he didnt show me a sign i wasnt taking part in this any more.

at that moment, after the thought "show me a sign" and before i finished saying it allowed, the largest moth i have ever seen, the size similar to the one caught in the first computer, appeared out of no where and landed on
my chest.

i was convinced

Great thread!

I have always tripped out about how humans cannot imagine a new singularity, or absolute.
For example, if i imagine a pink elephant from mars, that creature does not exist...but the color pink, the animal elephant, and the planet mars does exist.
We as humans can only imagine things that already exist in their respective absolute forms.
Try imagining a new color that doesn't exist without pulling from existing colors....it's impossible.

God is the ultimate absolute or singularity that a human can imagine. If He did not exist, we would not be able to imagine His existence.

My Dad was brought up going to church and what not, but my Mom wasnt so I always got both sides. And I can see how they both believe what they do. The way I see it is, there is a God, his son did come here, and gave us a guideline, but Man twisted his word, since I believe that, I really dont believe in the bible much. I see that there has to be a God, I see what he/she created in simple, yet complex things, like the Human Body, its just an insane system if you think about eveything that is going on in it. Even the universe just seems to complex for it all to of "Just happened"

reply to post by Myendica


Well stated, i apologize that you had to go through the accident to learn but we all learn in our own ways.

I think that nature has the most complex mechanisms ever and i personally think that everyone is either a believer of God or a higher power or a user of it as we use the best form of flattery... replication

The mathematical evidence for a transcendental intelligence has been presented at the website:

smphillips.8m.com...

It may take several months to assimilate all the material and results, but the conclusion that God exists is inescapable because it is the only plausible way of explaining the amazing properties of and correlations between various sacred geometries and their connection to scientific facts and discoveries.

reply to post by srbouska

Now I can't ever follow that same faith.

Science reaches conclusions based on evidence, observation, and testable predictions. It does not require faith.

And how exactly does the fact that matter and energy cannot be entirely annihilated prove God's existence? All it proves is exactly what it states, matter and energy cannot be destroyed. That really has very little to do with abiogenesis, the origin of life, or evolution - the process by which life became more diverse.

Science is still trying to figure out how conditions on early Earth gradually led to the rise of the first single-celled organisms but simply because we haven't yet found an answer doesn't mean we give up and substitute a supernatural explanation. It means we admit we don't know yet and continue looking for evidence.

Here's a great picture I saw in a youtube video (all credit to Aronra) that illustrates the point:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d664364ee707.jpg[/atsimg]

I don't see why the fact that everything we know consists of the same building blocks (molecules) proves the existence of a higher power. We can't even be 100% sure that we know of all building blocks in the universe.

As for disproving a negative hypothesis, that's not really how it works. So just because no one can disprove with 100% certainty that there is no god, you chose to believe there is one? It's like accepting a criminal is guilty before looking into the case. Innocent until proven guilty!

For now, there is no scientific proof of god's existence, so for now, it makes sense to assume there is no god.



[edit on 15-7-2010 by MrXYZ]