Where does our energy go when we die?

TheBandit795,

Thanks and good link to an NDE site...

Originally posted by TheBandit795

Originally posted by radardog


Not true. Some people like getting hurt. You're just imposing your values and what you hold dear onto everyone else. There is a specific group of people that like pain: Masochist

It's nothing about values, but about the mental build up of people...
Are babies born masochists??? Are people born masochists? Or is it a result of the conditions and the enviroment they were reared up in?

So my point is, masochism is second nature, not first nature... So it still applies...

How do you know they aren't? Could it be you were raised not to like pain? You are simply special pleading with respect to different frames of mind.

However, let's suppose for a moment that they were just raised that way. What does that change? Nothing: They STILL like pain. And using the golden rule, "In everything do to others as you would have them do to you" there is no mention WHY you want them to do this to you, just that they do.

In everything do to others as you would have them do to you

In otherwords, for the golden rule, "why" is not of issue. "is" is of what is at stake. What "is" it that I want done to me?

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by illimey

If Jesus = God = myth, then humanity = hopeless.

We are utterly miserable and may as well lie down and die.

Existence is pointless.

Our energy can do what it damn well likes after we die, cause whatever happens, there is no reason to care.

Hey now, wait a minute.

Just because Jesus is not God hardly means that existence is pointless.

You create your own "reason for being" from your service to others.

Let me try and force my tired brain to explain the logic of my statement that "If Jesus = God = myth, then humanity = hopeless."



Well I'm sitting here with a brain blanker than a footballer's math paper.



Please forgive me. I will have to continue this discussion after I've got some sleep.

illimey.....out.

illimey

Is no reason to be angry when we can all share our point of views I enjoy debating and I am old enough to stop calling names to make my point, I guess it comes from working with teenagers you have to be very patient and listens to all sides and point of views. and never ever try to convince somebody that do not want to listens, but instead just plant the seed of doubt. If somebody wants the truth they will step out of their believes and research on options. Is as simple as that.

God does not decide who goes to heaven or hell. You choose. Again this is classic diversion tactics to remove personal accountability and lay the blame for bad at God's feet.

Technically Jonna is right and mass can be converted into energy. For all practical purposes my explanation applies, since we're not talking about extreme conditions and the extreme time length at which proton decay can make a difference.

To get a more balanced view, I suggest you read this article about NDEs as well. It gives some more mundane explanations for NDEs.

quote: Originally posted by illimey

If Jesus = God = myth, then humanity = hopeless.

We are utterly miserable and may as well lie down and die.

Existence is pointless.

thats rather a pathetic comment isnt it , is your life built up so much around god that without his existance then you may as well be dead ?

lol , how sad

dont worry tho mate , there are prob millions of people like you across the planet , its probably the reason why they hide the none existance of god to people

mass suicide

[edit on 16-6-2004 by acidhead]

Amantine, the skepdic article does not take the NDE's in consideration in which the braindead person was able to view objects, people talking and hear them also in different rooms than the body was at the same time. Those are called "Veridical NDE's".

www.near-death.com...

www.near-death.com...

(just use ctrl-f "veridical")


[edit on 16-6-2004 by TheBandit795]

How can a brain dead person be brought back to life? I quote (source):

When someone is brain dead, it means there is no blood flow or oxygen to their brain and that their brain is no longer functioning in any capacity and never will again.

I also found no case of a verifiable perception in NDEs in PubMed. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, I haven't done enough research to conclude that. The fact the person was able to regain consciousness seems to indicate that his or her brain was still functioning to some degree. This can explain people hearing things said by doctors.

All in all, the cases with perception of the patients surroundings in the hospital in NDEs are anecdotal and more research should be done before we can draw any conclusion.

My opinion is that souls probably don't exist. If they can influence us, they can influence matter and therefore we should be able to measure them. The fact that we haven't measured them can be explained in three different ways: souls don't exist, souls can influence only living matter (this is a bit problematic, because physically and chemically there is not much difference between dead and alive matter) or our measuring instruments aren't sensitive enough. It is my opinion that our measuring instruments are probably sensitive enough (although there is no know we can test this) and that only leaves the first option.

This is my opinion in light of current evidence. New evidence or theories might change my opinion.

I also found no case of a verifiable perception in NDEs in PubMed. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, I haven't done enough research to conclude that. The fact the person was able to regain consciousness seems to indicate that his or her brain was still functioning to some degree. This can explain people hearing things said by doctors.

There are other journals where they do get published in...

The Survivalist Interpretation of Recent Studies Into the Near-Death Experience;The Journal of Religion and Psychical Research 26, 1, 27-31. January 2003.

www.lightlink.com...

=====================================================


Journal of Near Death Studies Vol. 11 No. 4, Summer 1993 (Further Evidence For Veridical Perception During Near-Death Experiences by Kenneth Ring, Ph.D. & Madelaine Lawrence, R.N., Ph.D.)

======================================================

van Lommel, P. et al. (2001) Near Death Experience In Survivors of Cardiac Arrest: A Prospective Study in the Netherlands, The Lancet, 358, 2039-2042.(ctrl-f "During the pilot phase")

www.thelancet.com...

=====================================================

All in all, the cases with perception of the patients surroundings in the hospital in NDEs are anecdotal and more research should be done before we can draw any conclusion.

I agree 100% with this, there should be much more done in this field.


Btw... Here is an interesting discussion with lots of links about whether science supports NDE's or not...

www.near-death.com...

Indeed...I believe that "ghosts" or "spirits" or perhaps even "angels" are pure, non-evil, good energy. And evil spirits, ghosts, or demons, are pure evil energy.

Yet, what determines if you become a "evil" or "good" spirit? Perhaps what you do on Earth, and in your life, prepares you for the next "level" or "plane" of existance? Perhaps, because energy cannot be fully destroyed, passes on.

Say you help out an elderly person here, on Earth, a little bit more of "pure, good" energy passes on into the stars or the next plane. The same would go for bad deeds as well.

Perhaps, perhaps. But we will never know until we die...

-wD

The Lancet contains some interesting articles. I'll take a look at those.

reply to post by Paul_Richard

It is mind boggling to me that you know what happens to our "energy" when we die. It is your opinion or what you would like to believe. No one knows. No one ever came back to tell us. The person who asked the question should know better - perhaps he/she just wanted various opinions. That's exactly what he will get ... nothing but opinions/philosophies/religious responses. And here's mine: this is a human experience. When we die, that human experience is over. The person I am now no longer exists. None of us knows what happens beyond that point.

I believe we become pure energy. I believe that is our "transformed bodies". We become, literally, beings of light.

Energy conservation - we just convert over.

our 'energy' becomes diluted in the vast cosmos...
as there is no longer a brain which senses/interpets/ then responds to stimuli.


a 'soul' ~ and all that goes with it, faith/religion, et al ~ is nothing more than concepts, attempting to give sense to the unfathomable.

Originally posted by St Udio
our 'energy' becomes diluted in the vast cosmos...
as there is no longer a brain which senses/interpets/ then responds to stimuli.


a 'soul' ~ and all that goes with it, faith/religion, et al ~ is nothing more than concepts, attempting to give sense to the unfathomable.

You forgot to add: ' In my humble opinion'

reply to post by marg6043


cool i thought i was crazy, i see these dreams or visions and remember them very clearly, unlike a normal dream that makes sense out of what might have been events of your day, or no sense or those annoying re-accuring dreams. before i would sleep i would close my eyes very tight and find interesting motions, sometimes light, even a pulling feeling on my body like i want to leave and just be pure energy and intelligence, beyond our known world. i still have the dream of falling into space, i think most of us have that dream, its like your energy is stuck and you can't move or run from things, then you fall trying to get away and every time we will wake up trying to hold our body out of falling and there is no light just dark. this is very intense stuff, mine goes way beyond the simple responses i have given in this response. i believe our energy, soul does go somewhere, we just can't take our worn out body. there is energy everywhere in space be sure that we do go somewhere that we don't need this body anymore.

reply to post by Paul_Richard

thats so lame, God Got nothing To do With the energy. Read Einstein explanation about Energy. Energy can neither be created or destroyed, it just transform into another form of energy. Pure Since

let me tell you someting

religion+god=kill for peace humanity=sience

i have got a question
when you turn into a energy do you remenber anyting?

reply to post by Freenrgy2


I hear what you are saying. I think personally that we are dead as dead can be when our body gives out. I don't believe there is a afterlife at all. I do however believe that our energy turns into something else. So while this physical existence may end, we become something else. This is of course all just personal theory. Nothing factual about any of it.