Are some people born evil?

I remember discussing this in my English class 3 years ago, we argued if some people are born evil, it's in there DNA, we also argued people getting influenced by TV and other things, and this determines there mindset.

What do you think?

reply to post by Haydn_17


I think there is proof that people are born evil.

Just hang out with any woman long enough and you will soon realize they were all born evil.

Its just ashame we poor men are addicted to them and their curviness.

There probably is a genetic predisposition in some individuals for "evil" but i'd guess it is an exception rather than the norm.
I've never seen any info on that idea. Might be worth looking into.

I would say some people have a natural disposition towards acting outside of what is normally considered acceptable behavior.

I wish it could be attributed to just a chemical imbalance or a psychological problem, but in reality sometimes bad people are just bad for no good reason.

- Fry

Yes.

They're called primary psychopaths and make up about 1/100 of births.





[edit on 15-7-2010 by unityemissions]

Explanation: S&F!

Are we talking about an individuals natural inherent Temperament [wiki]???

In psychology, temperament refers to those aspects of an individual's personality, such as introversion or extroversion, that are often regarded as innate rather than learned. A great many classificatory schemes for temperament have been developed; none, though, has achieved general consensus in academia.

More recently, scientists seeking evidence of a biological basis of personality have further examined the relationship between temperament and character (defined in this context as the learnt aspects of personality). However, biological correlations have proven hard to confirm.

Accepting That Good Parents May Plant Bad Seeds (by RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.) [heraldtribune.com]

But that left open a fundamental question: If the young man did not suffer from any demonstrable psychiatric disorder, just what was his problem?

My answer may sound heretical, coming from a psychiatrist. After all, our bent is to see misbehavior as psychopathology that needs treatment; there is no such thing as a bad person, just a sick one.

But maybe this young man was just not a nice person.

For years, mental health professionals were trained to see children as mere products of their environment who were intrinsically good until influenced otherwise; where there is chronic bad behavior, there must be a bad parent behind it.

But while I do not mean to let bad parents off the hook — sadly, there are all too many of them, from malignant to merely apathetic — the fact remains that perfectly decent parents can produce toxic children.

Please see article for full story OK!

Personal Disclosure: I live a FANTASTIC life in Australia and a life that is better than that of kings and emperors of old and YET I was born very very dissatisfied, arrogant and pissed off to no freaking end, so yes people can be born evil and or nasty... and like me they CAN learn to curb it!

Edited spelling fail! [emprors=emperors] soz sigh

[edit on 15-7-2010 by OmegaLogos]

Have any of you ever watched the series "Most Evil"? A very experinced Forensic Psychiatrist deeply analyzes dozens of serial killers and murderers from childhood through their deeds and gives them a ranking from 1 to 22, including all of the most infamous. In one of these shows another investigative Psychiatrist/Neurologist opines that three things seem very consistently common in these people before they do such evil deeds. Abuse of any kind as a child, a head injury, and any kind of mental illness. These people begin as Sociopaths, then they turn totally into themselves and end up as Psychopaths. These stories are ridiculously consistent. The head injury can be anything, even a difficult birth with inadequate oxygen. The physical, emotional, and psychological abuse some parents unleash on their children is just horrible. When they become mentally ill over time, the fuse is waiting to be lit. You ought to check the show out.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Sociopathy is mostly environmental, and secondary psychopathy is probably a somewhat equal mix of genetics propensity, and environmental circumstances, but primary psychopathy is entirely genetic and 100% incapable of reform via growing a conscience.

Not every person is a member of humanity. Some are beasts in disguise and must be noticed of this so that what little remaining humanity exists throughout civilization doesn't die out in the relatively near future.

reply to post by Haydn_17

Are some people born evil?

Nope.

All people are born evil.

Naturally it all hangs on the definition of the term. IMHO the root of evil is the attitude that 'I' am somehow more important than others. Look at any child's innate tendencies and you'll see it in its most primitive form. By the time the child gets to be a toddler it's screaming at you...

Definitely just look at the Jamie Bulger case, John Venables and Robert Thompson were incredibly evil children, without the horrible environment to blame. A reasonably good standard of living and home life produced these two nightmares.

reply to post by Haydn_17


it depends on your definition of born.

ive never seen a newborn come out wielding a knife and trying to hurt people.

but newborns are born into an ideology or an evil household.

if you take a newborn and put them in the wild, it would most likely be "evil", when you return..?

but i dont think a newborn has any clue.

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by OmegaLogos

 

Sociopathy is mostly environmental, and secondary psychopathy is probably a somewhat equal mix of genetics propensity, and environmental circumstances, but primary psychopathy is entirely genetic and 100% incapable of reform via growing a conscience.

Not every person is a member of humanity. Some are beasts in disguise and must be noticed of this so that what little remaining humanity exists throughout civilization doesn't die out in the relatively near future.

I have to disagree. There is a reason the DSM IV now terms it as APD. It is just too difficult for a clinician to measure traits such as a "lack of conscience". Furthermore, the subject must be over 18.

Are people born evil? People are animals, and behave as such. Animalistic behaviour is curbed by society. Some people have trouble living by the rules of society, due to many environmental, and psychiatric reasons. Those reasons may be organic in nature (an abnormality in the brain), or they may be caused by trauma, which can go as far back as childhood.

Originally posted by Snow.In.Summer

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by OmegaLogos

 

Sociopathy is mostly environmental, and secondary psychopathy is probably a somewhat equal mix of genetics propensity, and environmental circumstances, but primary psychopathy is entirely genetic and 100% incapable of reform via growing a conscience.

Not every person is a member of humanity. Some are beasts in disguise and must be noticed of this so that what little remaining humanity exists throughout civilization doesn't die out in the relatively near future.

I have to disagree. There is a reason the DSM IV now terms it as APD. It is just too difficult for a clinician to measure traits such as a "lack of conscience". Furthermore, the subject must be over 18.

A lack of conscience is not difficult to measure by those who know what to look for. Conscience is the ability to use insight for building an internal ethical code of right conduct as a human being. People who lack insight don't develop a moral compass. These are the APD, but it's a spectrum. The fact that the DSM now seems to deny this spectrum is quite telling of who's in control of these organizations. We're being demoralized into thinking right is wrong, and wrong is right.

Originally posted by Snow.In.Summer
Are people born evil? People are animals, and behave as such. Animalistic behaviour is curbed by society. Some people have trouble living by the rules of society, due to many environmental, and psychiatric reasons. Those reasons may be organic in nature (an abnormality in the brain), or they may be caused by trauma, which can go as far back as childhood.

People are animals, but human beings are social creatures. Not all people are human being, imo. It's not merely society which curbs animalistic behavior, for those without the ability to develop a conscience will remain animalistic with intent regardless of being surrounded by societal norms/ethics.

I don't think people are born evil, but rather some people are more susceptible. I'm currently studying to be a psychologist and yes there are people who are sociopaths (not the correct term but its one everyone knows) , but not every sociopath is evil. They may not feel emotions the same way but I have seen sociopaths who are not evil.

I have a family member who is a borderline sociopath who suffers from a few other neurological disorders, ADD and OCD to name two . He nearly killed his own cousin but after a few years and more exposure to social norms he became relatively more normal. Kleptomania is another neurological disorder that some people think of as being born evil. My question is this if you cannot help yourself and steal does that make you evil? My answer is no. I truly cannot believe that there is a person out there born evil.

Also what is your definition of evil? I'm pretty sure it'll differ from mine and I'm sure every single person on ATS has a different view on evil.

Xiamara

[edit on 15-7-2010 by Xiamara]

Originally posted by unityemissions

A lack of conscience is not difficult to measure by those who know what to look for. Conscience is the ability to use insight for building an internal ethical code of right conduct as a human being. People who lack insight don't develop a moral compass. These are the APD, but it's a spectrum. The fact that the DSM now seems to deny this spectrum is quite telling of who's in control of these organizations. We're being demoralized into thinking right is wrong, and wrong is right.

"Insight" is a vague term to use, particularly in context with "conscience". It's as vague as the term "empathy". I'm afraid that I see people behave with a lack of empathy, and in a self-serving manner, every day. I agree with the current DSM definition and diagnosis for APD. A clinician is also a person, and can be influenced by their own agenda, whether they know it or not. It's better to stick with what can actually be measured.

I see that you disagree, which is fair enough. I personally have a discomfort with what I am reading as a very strong definition of "right" and "wrong", on your behalf. Those are contextual terms, to me.

Originally posted by unityemissions
People are animals, but human beings are social creatures. Not all people are human being, imo. It's not merely society which curbs animalistic behavior, for those without the ability to develop a conscience will remain animalistic with intent regardless of being surrounded by societal norms/ethics.

I am not sure what you mean by not all people are human beings! I assume you are using the term "human being" as a metaphor for the positive, as opposed to the metaphor "animal" for the negative. If that is the case, I personally don't think that humans are less "evil" than animals. We are simply more intelligent, and technologically savvy, which gives us the capacity for more "good" and "evil".

In this sense, I am terming "good" as behaviour which benefits the self and other humans, and "evil", as behaviour that harms the self and others, although this is also contextual, and open for debate.

We all have both good and evil inside us, for some the evil is just a little closer to the surface. Since you mentioned English class I'll use a book to give an example, Lord of the Flies. The message of the book is that the beast is inside all of us. This beast is what Freud called the id. It is the most powerful force in the body and its only purpose is to help it's host to survive no matter what they must do or how savage they must become.

reply to post by unityemissions

Explanation: When I 1st ever hurt anything willfully I really really had no idea of the consequences... but I learned fast and soon I was able to exquisitely apply undue and unwarranted pressure i.e. duress upon any of my chosen targets for my own pleasure and end's and the why of this is an existential reality that the laws of the universe are quite descriptive and if I say use them to rub xyz out then indeed xyz is rubbed out and I have NEVER forgoten this, BUT... I also quickly learned about KARMA and that when it hits it is ALWAYS unexpectedly and due to it's "unexpected" nature, I tended to overlook it and therefor saw it as more akin to the perscriptive laws of mankind [whatever the demographics] when mankind is actually a force of nature and therefor human laws when acted upon ARE DESCRIPTIVE! Disobey them at [y]our own peril!

Personal Disclosure: Mirror neurons gave me the capacity to exploit my fellow human beings and is perversely also my weakest link!

Mirror Neurons [wiki]

I dont think people are born evil, I think that people are born with the ability to be manipulated into evil easier than some.
We are just clay to be molded by our gods and our science.. some of us just have a thicker skin to evil

I think most people do not know right from wrong. I would say 90% of people are wannabee murderers, and care not for any one, as long as they can murder someone in effect in life, be it literally or by bullying and torture.

Evil is a choice. Some people are born with mental/behavior problems and some are abused as kids. But only a small percentage of them choose to be serial killers. Nobody is born evil. Society has more influence on a person than genetics.

Someone brought up John Venables and Robert Thompson. I don't think that's a good example. One of them showed signs of what seemed to be satanic ritual abuse in drawings. I doubt the public knows the whole story so I would not be so quick to judge and say these kids were born evil.