Welcome to the Unpossible Future... The AGI Manhattan Project

reply to post by MrSensible


na I'm serious. he would be out of a job.

what about "not needing anything" though? like desires,wants,and habits?
that would only happen if the brian was programable. I wouldn't want to be manipulated through a connection via wireless feed.
just half or almost half cyborg...like in the 37% range•lol (organs)

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Today we're faced with simply being integrated into the system, especially via neuro-invasive nanobots (my greatest fear). We also face the inherent reality where we'll have to integrate into the machine collective to not be annhilated.

It comes down to how much damage can it cause... especially while factoring in the potential tyranny the system building it can cause. Aside from AGI, technology is technology. If tyrants are building gas chamber concentration camps, it's time to cut off the 'progress'.

I don't understand why you say it would be a bad thing. I mean, one of my biggest problems with a lot of the NWO conspiracies is that everyone acts like the people behind it are Sith Overlords or something, just being evil because that's the way the script was written. If there are people behind the scenes, then they are capable of great good as well as great evil.

Which means that AGI is as likely to be the greatest invention mankind has ever devised as it is to be the worst.


[edit on 17-7-2010 by MrSensible]

answered what I wanted to know about self production of the energy within the nanobots.
I think the only question it didn't answer was how to stop them if on the opposite side?
like how an EMP works. what could stop those from functioning correctly?

reply to post by MrSensible


there has to be two sides to keep it fair. he is the knowledgable one with the know how and you are the curious one with the authority to make the rules and regulations. I'm the test dummie looking for a prolonged life span.lol

Originally posted by thatJESTERjustin
reply to post by MrSensible

 

na I'm serious. he would be out of a job.

what about "not needing anything" though? like desires,wants,and habits?
that would only happen if the brian was programable. I wouldn't want to be manipulated through a connection via wireless feed.
just half or almost half cyborg...like in the 37% range•lol (organs)

But, everything you do in your daily life is the result of chemical reactions in your brain. When you eat a chocolate bar, chemicals in your brain make you feel good. When you get punched in the face, nerve endings send signals to your brain which tells you to feel pain. When someone gives you a foot massage, endorphins make you relax.

In the proposed fictional world, we are all connected, supposedly to an AI. Therefore, this AI could make our brains do what it wanted (again, a positive and negative thing). But on the positive side, you could have an orgasm upon request, or get the same feelings/tastes as when you eat a chocolate bar. And if you fell down and scraped your knee, it could block your pain receptors instantly.

I have discovered that in my dreams I can do whatever I want. For instance, I can stop a lion from hurting me, or shove around people the way I want them to go.

Now, someone can do that to me, by simply inserting a chip into my body, and control what I eat and drink, with all the necessary chemicals to MAKE me behave as he wants me to behave.

What is the difference?


Long time ago, the famous poet Pindar, wrote:

What we are and what we are not?
Man is a dream of a shadow.


When Alexander conquered Thebes he ordered all houses to be destroyed - except Pindar's.

That shadow is technology. It is a system of infinite number of particles, objects and all possible interactions. As you can see, it is impossible to bring this system to an end, because all those combinations are infinite - this system actually produces infinity and still it claims, it PROMISES, there will be en end to this striving, that PERFECTION will be achieved - so that we can all rest and enjoy the peace.

That will never happen, but the lure is irresistible!

So, one has to use his intelligence to understand the catch 22 that exists in this quest for immortality. What immortality really is - it is suffering. Eternal suffering, eternal depletion of one's energy in the name of the promise which will never be fulfilled.

You want to live like that - go ahead. But the worst part of it is, since you can't do it yourself, you are FORCED (by the lure of PROMISE) to enforce the others and cause more suffering in the name of some such evasive FINAL SOLUTION.

This is how man becomes no more than fuel for the Idea which is a Promise and consists of Technology which ensures you keep feeding it.

Technology lasts forever, and men suffer and get consumed by it. In the old times it was called Moloch. (From Wikipedia: In modern English usage, "Moloch" can refer derivatively to any person or thing which demands or requires costly sacrifices.)

It was/is called The Beast, too.

The only way to beat it is to understand what it really is, and thus avoid being lured by its promises.

Speaking brutally, Technology is a cannibal par excellence. And the whole system that is being built now, as it has been built for the last 5.000 + years, is cannibalistic.

Those who don't understand the nature of this system, willfully sacrifice their and other people's lives because they hope they can enrich themselves by doing so.

Good luck.

So this technology brings the promise of a very prolonged life, but doesn't it also bring the promise of turning the masses into nothing more than drones?

What is the point of prolonging life if there is no quality of life? Would we end up growing humans in techno farms similar to the Matrix movies?

What of one on one relationships? If we were in a artificial collective we would have minds of machines? The extremism of democracy in full force.

What would become of intimacy Individualism and personal choice when the mob rules?

A society filled with worker bees and a few queens with no regard to happiness and love sounds like a living nightmare, and many say we are so distracted now this would bring this distraction to a whole new level.

Is a combining of our biological selves with our technology our natural evolution?


Freedom is a state of mind,a mind is a state of being, stay the &*$@ out of my mind and my being!!!!

Originally posted by DangerDeath


That shadow is technology. It is a system of infinite number of particles, objects and all possible interactions. As you can see, it is impossible to bring this system to an end, because all those combinations are infinite - this system actually produces infinity and still it claims, it PROMISES, there will be en end to this striving, that PERFECTION will be achieved - so that we can all rest and enjoy the peace.

That will never happen, but the lure is irresistible!

So, one has to use his intelligence to understand the catch 22 that exists in this quest for immortality. What immortality really is - it is suffering. Eternal suffering, eternal depletion of one's energy in the name of the promise which will never be fulfilled.

You want to live like that - go ahead. But the worst part of it is, since you can't do it yourself, you are FORCED (by the lure of PROMISE) to enforce the others and cause more suffering in the name of some such evasive FINAL SOLUTION.

This is how man becomes no more than fuel for the Idea which is a Promise and consists of Technology which ensures you keep feeding it.

In this statement, I believe you could replace the world "Technology" with the word "Religion" and it would still work the same way.

So then, perhaps we would just be trading an ancient evil for a new-age one >_>. The Church of Technology, anyone? lol

reply to post by LDragonFire



You say "worker bees" and "queens", but what I mean to say is that in the perfect scenario, there would be only worker bees. Everyone on the same level. No tiers. And rather than the AI being some sort of dictator, it could merely be a hub by which we are all connected.

Is this not the scenario that humanity has been striving for since the beginning? Universal one-ness (sans AI hub, of course)?

[edit on 17-7-2010 by MrSensible]

@LDragonFire

What of one on one relationships? If we were in a artificial collective we would have minds of machines? The extremism of democracy in full force.

Is a combining of our biological selves with our technology our natural evolution?

Fair question, but nature has provided us with an answer. Ants have achieved this kind of immortality. Ants, as an Idea, survive for hundreds of millions of years. But that is all - individual ants don't survive. It is the same mechanism - biological or technological, there is no difference but in particular means. The functionality of ant's system is the same as projected functionality of any pyramidal system created by men.


In institutions, there is no such thing as "personal relationship". Institutions don't recognize personality. They only recognize "functions". Society is a system of distribution of responsibility. The system reserves responsibility to itself, and institutional responsibility is measured with functionality. Dysfunctional units are removed, repaired, reconditioned...

In society, those who want to develop their own personality are marginalized. But in some societies this is not allowed.

Democracy, as a political system, depletes the base of its energy (political will, if you want). Once this energy is captured by the superior structures, it can only go back in form of "allowances" (usually called salary).

The energy goes right into a "dream", a "promise". The idea of democracy uses the life force of "subjects", pardon me - "citizens" and from then on they are totally helpless, because their responsibility is now in hands of their "representatives", who in many cases do whatever they want and can change and adjust laws to their own private (not personal) benefit. This also fits into definition of the system, because they reserve the energy into the top of the pyramid. This energy is mostly used for maintenance of the system.

I have seen in my life too many examples where people most willingly work and sacrifice themselves to be payed by PROMISES, while when they are paid with money, they are very dissatisfied and tend to quit. You will see how this is true, if Rahm Emmanuel and his friend bring to reality their plans for mandatory voluntary summer camps and actions. People will be motivated by patriotism and subservience to the system, and be happy to receive allowances, so they can drink their beer in their cantina. And "being together" under the same idea will make them very happy.

reply to post by MrSensible

In this statement, I believe you could replace the world "Technology" with the word "Religion" and it would still work the same way.

So then, perhaps we would just be trading an ancient evil for a new-age one >_>. The Church of Technology, anyone? lol

Yes.
Only, religion is a special case because it is a political tool, part of the bigger system.
The idea of religion basically introduces powerful gods which are then placed under CONTROL of the church or state authorities, by "observing rules and rituals".

The main function of religion is to create a special system of interpretation which is an apology of the existing system of distribution of responsibility (power). It also criminalizes any other system of interpretation and prevents people from "asking questions" because religious system of interpretation offers answers to all "relevant" questions.

In practice, this means that the system has eliminated critical thinking, or analytical thinking, which inevitably destroys the confidence in the system and weakens it.

The same role in society plays the science. Science, being a different system of interpretation of reality, was at first suppressed by church in medieval and later times (since church was an integral part of the state). But somewhere about the time Galileo was pardoned, it seems that authorities (which are of course not always united) arrived at some kind of compromise.

What science offered to the system was knowledge of technology, which was discarded many times in history, but finally, when the world become smaller in the Age of Reconnaissance, the authorities (especially in Spain, which was a totalitarian Christian state - what an absurd!) realized that only guns would ensure their supremacy worldwide.

Since then, science is promoted as the most righteous source of interpretation and apology for the existing political system. Along with it, social and political sciences were developed, which enabled "progress" and "evolution" of political system. Technological advances allowed growth of living standard and in accordance to that, subjects needed to be granted wider "rights", in most cases, just a promise to share political power with the top officials.

The story is a bit complicated, but what we have now is pretty clear for anyone who cares to observe it. All kinds of corruption exist in modern society and people are in most cases involved in it and thus disabled from taking any action, since it would mean a material loss. Citizenry is practically paralyzed.

People simply don't have enough knowledge to understand what the hell is going on. Religion and science took care of that.

Originally posted by MrSensible
reply to post by LDragonFire

 

You say "worker bees" and "queens", but what I mean to say is that in the perfect scenario, there would be only worker bees. Everyone on the same level. No tiers. And rather than the AI being some sort of dictator, it could merely be a hub by which we are all connected.

Is this not the scenario that humanity has been striving for since the beginning? Universal one-ness (sans AI hub, of course)?

[edit on 17-7-2010 by MrSensible]

In case of ants, we are led to believe that their "queens" are in charge, but in truth the system is in charge. System itself stands IN PLACE of personality.

Queens are only birth machines.

reply to post by thatJESTERjustin


Bible thumper? I haven't been to church in decades! I do my own studies and connect with the universe.

Why do you think some aliens are so interested in us. They want to see how this parasite (our souls) have attached themselves to this biological creature (us). Without our souls we would be on the level of bonobos or chimps.

There will be a choice as the Mayan's predicted. Half of mankind will choose the tech in the pursuit of biological immortality, while the others will choose spiritual evolution.

Compare this to Avatar. The humans thought they were so much more advanced than the blue people, but in reality they weren't. Just in their evolution they chose tech, while the blue people chose spiritual evolution which allowed them to truly connect with their planet.

I think i'd rather be able to communicate with my world and environment than run around in armor with guns blowing things up. What about you?

Thanks for connecting the dots...

S+F, just about the most informative post I have seen on ATS. Respect. 90+% of ATS 'new posters' should take note on how to present a case.

Briefly,
In the 1st vid, that Richard Seed is clearly insane. Imagine, a God who can't get a hard-on? Surely, his mental head-state (and receding hairline) is where you arrive after a lifetime of coc aine abuse?
What he and his criminal lunatic associates don't realise is that they are being set-up as an example for the rest of us as an example of how NOT to behave by REAL Gods (but not the Universal source).
Generally speaking, all my life, I have rarely liked old people, as all they are usually about is ego and money. Richard Steed is a shining example of this and has again reminded me what a nice world it shall be, when these jokers are finally gone.
Die, you pathetic, ego-manical old man!... do us all a favour, *$*! off!

Then in the 4th vid we have Stanley Williams from HP. Another lunatic who I'm sure thinks that every animal and plant (and possibly even the rocks) should be micro-chipped (just so that we know whats going on!).
You know, there is an old truism... SNIDES and GRASSES wear MOUSTACHES!!!!!!
Add a ponytail (funny enough, he has one), and my post will be removed if I call him by his correct title.
He's merely another reason to dislike old people. I mean, what kind of world do they wish to leave their great-grandchildren? The word 'Selfish' seems such a ridiculous understatement.

I don't know where Humanity is headed but I do know (from personal RV and other communications) that we don't actually need to panic. Humanity will survive. And though most of the people alive now will not die of old age, that's not such a bad thing. Remember, it's not the QUANTITY of life (MR. RICHARD SEED AND FRIENDS!!!), it's the QUALITY of life.
So come on, let's party, go travelling, be nice to people, learn as much as you can, and last but not least, learn to chill out.

I'll let you all in on a secret. the NWO is dead in the water. What will in fact happen, is that this global system of control (information/resource distribution) currently being setup by mad, old men in order to enslave us (to satisfy their own dysfunctional penile erection ego's), shall be taken from their hands once they have the last pieces in place.
Humanity needed a global perspective. In case you still haven't got it, we are in fact one family. Nations are for History books. Some of the Human Race is maturing. Those who are not ready, will not die of old age.


Love and peas to you all, as ever...

x x x x x x

[edit on 17-7-2010 by Yellow Teapot]

NASA is technically committing high treason with this project. They're almost quite literally building the Venus Project, being sold on Global Warming hype fearmongering, as I predicted.

NASA building Zeitgeist global government "Planetary Skin" "global nervous system"

[edit on 17-7-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

That video is really about technological insanity.

The IMMERSED researchers are going to make Sahara green again and All Earth a better place...

Wait...
Haiti... apart from simulating quick response... drug-lord hunt
Wait...
Katrina... everybody knows this one...
Wait...
GoM leak... the scope of this catastrophe yet to be assessed... huge
Wait...
Melamine... chem and bio agents in food... very much out of hand...
Wait...
Wag the Dog... ongoing UAV assassinations...
Wait...
Codex Alimentarium... you are what we allow you to eat...
etc...

Originally posted by Metron
reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

 

Awesome post! I am a proponent for transhumanism, but not for the nefarious reasons and results that the M.I.C. is after.
Unfortunately, the elites who have the power and money will benefit from this new paradigm. This is very dangerous.
Radical life-extension is right around the corner, but it will be for a certain group who has the means. Immortality thru transhumanism will be for the elite.
Thank you for posting all this information. I will have to sit down for a couple of hours and research all your links and references.

Metron

Thanks. While I don't agree with much of transhumanism, I realize a certain bit of futility with it, but above all else the elites are doing it right now ASAP, and to do anything about it we're going to have to all band together to stop them. Then societies will have to decide for themselves what to do about it.

So please appeal to your fellow transhumanists that we must rise up to TPTB as the clock is grinding down on us.

I want no part of the singularity.

I have no crystal ball to look into the future. It may turn out alright.

It may not, and this is why I hope to be gone before then.

The economic war being waged against us:

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I'm referring to this theory , to men who are involved with , and to all the fear mongers of this planet!