Mosque At Ground Zero

I see no reason for controversy. I support religious freedom and if a community in New York wants to build a mosque near ground zero I see no reason to deny those individuals the right to do so.

Originally posted by Snarf
every single one of you opposers has avoided this question - why?

Why is it okay for a mosque to go up at 9/11 ground zero, but a pulled pork restaurant not allowed to go next door?

Please, someone elaborate

I looove your sig.

How about a third line after that dumb line "Terrorists will fly you into a building"....... "Ignorance doesnt fly you anywhere"!

To understand what I mean Youtube: Blueprint for truth and enlighten yourself. And if your too busy chomping doritoes and chugging your big gulp to watch the whole thing then watch the trailer.

And after your done watching that, google: Israel did 911

And although I dont agree with everything on that thread. Somethings are 100% on the button.


This post goes for everyone here that thinks "terrorists" did 9/11.


(its so funny, many people here claim that they know the gov. is lieing to them and they they are able to "call them out" on their lies but then turn around and BLATANTLY display that they have been duped.

O the irony. lol.

Oh and heres another video for you people who are blind to the truth, youtube: BBC Reported Building 7 Collapse 20 Minutes Before It Fell

and ask yourself how is that possible unless they...

later, easy on the doritoes

[edit on 15-7-2010 by Showtime]

Originally posted by felonius

Hateful? Really dont care. I dont pander to bleeding hearts or hippies.

Yes, It's obvious that you really don't care. Bleeding hearts or hippies? Really?

reply to post by Snarf

every single one of you opposers has avoided this question - why?

Why is it okay for a mosque to go up at 9/11 ground zero, but a pulled pork restaurant not allowed to go next door?

Please, someone elaborate

I believe both are acceptable. Hell, if it was a multi-use building, I think that a pulled pork restaurant should be inside!

One, I love irony.

Two, why the hell not?

The building should go up, hey, it's Manhattan, if someone has the cash to put up a mosque near the giant hole that we haven't done anything with in nearly 10 years, well that's their prerogative.

Originally posted by Snarf
every single one of you opposers has avoided this question - why?

Why is it okay for a mosque to go up at 9/11 ground zero, but a pulled pork restaurant not allowed to go next door?

Please, someone elaborate

Why do I need to elaborate on something that you created, that I never said personally, and when you're putting words in my mouth?

Besides, I #ing love pulled pork.

Originally posted by minute2midnight
I have no problem with it, it's just a mosque.

How about a Catholic Church in Mecca? ........

No big deal, you guys wouldn't mind that right?

I excerpted the only part which wouldn't be apples to oranges.

As a matter of fact the Vatican has been negotiating with Saudi Arabia to build a Catholic Church there...nothing so far.

This is where it gets complicated..

Saudi Arabia..

United States recognized the government of King Ibn Saud in 1931. In the 1930s, oil exploration by Standard Oil commenced. There was no US ambassador resident in Saudi Arabia until 1943, but as World War II progressed, the United States began to believe that Saudi oil was of strategic importance. In 1951, under a mutual defense agreement, the U.S. established a permanent U.S. Military Training Mission in the kingdom and agreed to provide training support in the use of weapons and other security-related services to the Saudi armed forces. This agreement formed the basis of what grew into a longstanding security relationship.

Wikipedia

And the US Gov has showed nothing but love for Saudi Arabia ever since.

We have military bases there. We support the current government there...oil and associated military needs trump all.

Many in the middle east claim the Saudi Arabia Gov oppresses human rights and gets away with it because of the unfailing support the US Gov shows them and the security we offer them with Military bases there etc.

This is why currently there are no Christian Churches in Mecca..

The Saudi Arabian Mutaween (Arabic: مطوعين), or Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (i.e., the religious police) prohibits the practice of any religion other than Islam[7]. Conversion of a Muslim to another religion is considered apostasy[8], a crime punishable by death (Capital punishment in Saudi Arabia) if the accused does not recant[9]. The Government does not permit non-Muslim clergy to enter the country for the purpose of conducting religious services[10].

Wikipedia

And ironically this is the government that the US Gov supports and regularly calls our "Closest Ally" in the middle east.

Why? OIL OIL OIL OIL!!!!!!

15 of the 19 Hijackers on 9-11 were from Saudi Arabia...and thus we invade Iraq? How many were from Iraq? Zero. Now they were training in Afghanistan and we asked the Taliban to give them up and they refused, so thus that invasion might have had merit IMO. But Iraq?

The US Gov supports the Islamic regime of Saudi Arabia...always has....geez, getting our bases out of Saudi Arabia is what Osama Bin Laden demanded.

My answer? Stop being oil junkies, get the hell out of Saudi Arabia, not because Osama wants us too, but because their government sucks and we shouldn't be in bed with them....and get the ef out of the middle east.

All of that is premised on dramatically reducing our dependancy on oil.

Strange that folks don't see that. For me alternative energy isn't about hugging trees, it is about not spending 700B a year and climbing on security efforts to get that oil...not to mention lives lost.

AND ceasing to prop up intolerant Islamic Regimes like Saudi Arabia...what will they do without oil money? Let them figure it out amongst themselves in the middle east. But the status-quo sure as heck does not work...we are propping up one Islamic Regime to combat Islamic Extremists elsewhere...all for OIL.

I fantasize about some sudden innovation that makes Oil obsolete where one day we simply say well that-is-that and pack up and leave the entire Middle-East to its self....until then lets fund as much alternate energy research and initiatives as possible.

So I guess my answer to a Christian Church in Mecca? Talk to your local GOP rep in DC who thinks alternative energy is a joke and would rather continue to prop-up the Islamic regime in Saudi Arabia.

Islam? Great religion.
Islamic extremists? Right up there with folks that bomb abortion clinics and shoot doctors.
Islamic governments? Up their with the European Royalty of old and the Christian Religions where there was no seperation of Church and State.

Why does the middle east still have religious regimes running government? Antiquated isn't it?

Because it is difficult for the people to rebel when the Regime is being funded and supported by US!!!! WE ARE THE REASON THEY HAVE NOT EVOLVED. The money we send them has stunted thier evolution and kept thier "Kings" in power.

Take Oil money out of the equation and there would be a long overdue reckoning in the Middle East between the people and thier governments and the best part would be that we would play no part in it. Evolution!!

Look what has happened in Iran with recent protests when we reduced the flow of Oil money there even a little through embargo's.

Seriously, whatever it costs, we need to stop being oil junkies, it's efing up the world.

Just my 2 cents.

reply to post by Showtime


what is it with you and your obsessive nature with Doritos?

Your insults were so lame, why even bother? Seriously man. You're the one who needs some enlightenment.

Originally posted by randomname
you knock down the twin towers and build a mosque in its place.

But the mosque ISN'T IN IT'S PLACE! It's a few blocks away. If I remember correctly from the map I saw it won't even be visible from ground zero.

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
So basically everyone who is opposed to this is comparing every single Muslim to terrorists and every single one of them who attends this Mosque is celebrating thier vistory in 9/11. Hmmm...kind of retarded

. In your logic...every single German business owner building his business around Jewish people is wrong because..he is a German..so he must be a Nazi....

It sure seems that way doesn't it? Is there a group, culture, religion or country that hasn't done something to someone at one point in time? Therefore no one should be allowed to do anything anywhere because everyone has done something to someone. With that logic it's amazing society's actually come along as far as it has.

reply to post by Snarf


Right.... I said doritoes once so now I am obsessed???

What a "lame" way of thinking.

Its funny how you had nothing to refute the information I gave you and how you continue to go about your silly business as if you actually know whats going on.

-95% of the words wealth is controlled by 5% of the people.
-95% of the worlds people take news as the word of god
-The 5% who dont, they either OWN the news or are clever enough to know its a tool that can be either used to inform OR manipulate.

Thats just for beginners, I can go all the way with undisputed facts but It would most definatley take you out of your comfort-zone as we would be spanning the religious, financial and spiritual worlds so lets not...lol

My aim is not to insult you and if you feel I have been harsh, that is just my nature.

I am brutally honest, maybe in the hope that you may glean something from my info. It is obvious after all.

No hard feelings, just get annoyed when people dont really know what is happening around them.

Good luck to you


[edit on 17-7-2010 by Showtime]

reply to post by Showtime


well, everyone views thier surrounds exactly the way you view your own

your issue seems to be that you're condemning ANYONE who doesn't see things 110% the exact same way you do



Thats just as bad, if not worse, than some yokel watching Faux News or MSNBC and taking it to heart.

Riiiight. Again, you fail to adress the facts presented before you. Instead you opt to tell me that I am the ignorant one because me and you dont share the same beliefs....LOL

And thank god we dont.

Childish really, you believe America was bombed by terrorists because the NEWS feeds it to you and I do my own research and come up with something alot closer to the truth than youll ever get. And then you come to a forum like this to display it in your signature. ROFL

Simply put, a person who continues his faulty line of thought regardless of facts that prove him wrong is either ignorant or plain stupid.

or both.

You said: "Thats just as bad, if not worse, than some yokel watching Faux News or MSNBC and taking it to heart."

WOW. ROFL agian. Are you really that dense?! That yokel is you! Why else do you believe "terrorists" bombed the towers other than the NEWS?


Now run along child, you dont want to miss your CNN propoganda do you??

[edit on 19-7-2010 by Showtime]

My problem with this whole issue is who has been weighing in on it, not just here on ATS but throughout the entire debate.

What is easily forgotten here is that people live in Manhattan, and that this is a local issue. Now we are getting people who do not live anywhere near New York City or really have any dog in this fight.

Yes, the United States was attacked on 9-11 and the worst of it was at the World Trade Center in NYC, but the fact that there was an attack on your country 9 years ago does not give everyone in America the right to try to dictate on local issues because of biases that may or may not even be an issue in Lower Manhattan.

I've noticed that in the larger media a lot of people who are complaining that this should not be allowed are the same ones that are saying that the government should just leave them alone. You can't have it both ways pundits.

reply to post by ProjectJimmy


Not that I particularly disagree with what you said, but I just can not ignore the irony of a Brit who routinely chimes in on matters that are by all means local issues chastising others for doing the same.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
reply to post by ProjectJimmy

 

Not that I particularly disagree with what you said, but I just can not ignore the irony of a Brit who routinely chimes in on matters that are by all means local issues chastising others for doing the same.

I offer my opinion, my problem with this are the people from outside of NYC actively trying to stop this. As I've said many many times before there are a lot of things I disagree with the United States upon but I do not try to influence your system beyond doing my job as a journalist.

I never have any problem with people discussing their opinions at all, terribly sorry I did not make that differentiation clear.

Jobs at CI Shariah Index Project (SIP) Program Associate
The Cordoba Initiative is seeking a Program Associate for its Shariah Index Project (SIP). The Cordoba Initiative is a multi-faith, non-governmental organization that improves Muslim World-West relations through cutting-edge and sustainable programs in the following key areas of friction: leadership development, women’s empowerment, policy engagement, media relations, and Islamic law and governance.


Now I read through the web site as put out by the Imman and it reads well, the ideals are noble. However, I was a bit curious and started to go through the different aspects of the site and came across what I put up. Now it raises questions as to why does a Imman, who is an American Citizen, who states he wishes to have good relations between the US and Muslims, building a Mosque blocks away from Ground Zero, why would they need to have a program to deal with Sharia law and islamic law in this country to which has no religious laws or church that would influence politics without getting into trouble. I find that the concept and idea of Sharia to be intolerant and after seeing this, can only conclude that it is not as the Imman would suggest to be a bridge, but a means to the end, seeking to start the process of having Sharia in communites in New York, and force changes that no one would like or desire to deal with. If the Imman had choosen not to build a mosque on that sight, this would probably have gone unnoticed. It is my belief that the mosque will be the target of violence and demonstrations if it gets built, causing more tensions between the communities.

WTC Construction progress update :

1WTC's skeleton for bottom like 5 floors has eclipsed the sidewalk and has now begun it's vertical climb.
2WTC (200 Greenwich St), 3WTC (175 Greenwich St), 5WTC (130 Greenwich St) construction has yet to commence as a ship from the 1700's has been unearthed.
4WTC (150 Greenwich St) construction has started and by now can be seen above street level.
6WTC (National 02/26/1993 & 09/11/01 Memorial Monument) construction has already started and is slated to be the first piece completed outside of 7WTC.
7WTC is open for business. 8WTC (WTC PATH Station) is under construction and the complex itself should be open for business starting 2015-2017 (pending things aren't still stalled like they are now, Silverstien's trying to pull his weight and it's delaying everything but that's for another thread entirely).

What I would like to see built at ground zero is exactly what was there before - the World Trade Centre etc.

I would not like to see anything Muslim for the simple reason that if you went to a Muslim country and tried to build your own building, eg anything American, you would not be allowed.

So, no no no.

Originally posted by catwhoknows
What I would like to see built at ground zero is exactly what was there before - the World Trade Centre etc.

I would not like to see anything Muslim for the simple reason that if you went to a Muslim country and tried to build your own building, eg anything American, you would not be allowed.

So, no no no.

If you listen to MSM they would have you convinced that the Mosque itself is to be built at The WTC which it is not.