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personal fears about the possible collapse...

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posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 09:28 PM
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I don’t think you need to worry too much. Most people will die waiting for some one to come and help them. Remember all the people in Katrina waiting for the government to come to the rescue? Most people in the inner cities will starve or be killed fighting with the other starving before leaving. By then most will be to week to make it far.
The ones you need to watch out for are the guys in football pads with Mohawk hair cuts.




posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by rubbertramp
 


The Gila is huge (and gorgeous) as are those other areas. I am thinking they would be good areas. The reason being, WTSHTF it most likely will be a slower process than something happening in an instant. That part of the country I believe will start to depopulate as the infrastructure fails. No more electricity for the AC will scare most folks away before times get get really rough. There is little natural water to speak of in the desert cities so, again, most folks will head elsewhere or die.

Maybe portions of the populations will head to the hills but will not know what to do once they get there and will soon expire. If you have your areas planned out and a survival strategy you are willing to embrace you should make it past the initial die off with little effort.

I believe past this point is when it may get a little more difficult. Sure there are a lot less people around but those that are, survived for a reason. They were either highly skilled, well planned, lucky, or very ruthless. They present a whole new dimension of challenges.

But hey, where else would one want to spend the apocalypse other than the Gila or the Bob Marshall? To me, Chicago, Seattle, Houston, etc are already the coming of the end.



posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 09:42 PM
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Durring the great depression many people lived off the land and did OK, however we are far removed from the early years of the great depression .. ANd wildlife was very hard to cum by because of all the people hunting for food.. Today we are a totally different society, many people don't hunt or know how to hunt.. many people have no skills besides what they went to "school" for for there employment.. and as the previous poster, many will just wait for help..

SUre you will find some that leave the cities and come to the rural areas, however i doubt they will last long. City folk don't have the skills to survive in a dire situation..

The people that will flourish are the "jacks of all trades" and the ones trained in survival , and also the ruthless criminal type.. they will survive on the ignorance of the sheeple.. but thats no different than today really. Today the ruthless are just kinder and gentler. and thay n=have names like bankers and governments.



posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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City folk don't have the skills to survive in a dire situation..


had to hit on this. the next step for them will be aquiring
my stuff!



posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 10:05 PM
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If this meltdown comes, it will affect All Americans. I think when I read real quick scarinos, the writers are probabbly jumping to conclusion on just how fast a meltdown will occur. I hava given much thought on what I would do.
The main thing is to secure your family. Secure your property. Continue to work as you normally do, but at the same time as we realize the meltdown is occuring, then we must take different weekly directions to our livelyhood.
We will need to start securing water, medicines, friendship bonds, ammo,
local civil understandings, and then graduate to another level as needed.
A family must have water. Store as many gallons of water as possible. be able to boil water in future needs.
A family needs medicines. Aspirin, Tylenol, matholate, idodine, tape, scissors, etc.
Friendship bonds is probabbly the most important. To the degree needed, might have to set up 24 hours watches to secure your roads, land, streets. Then if it really gets bad, you must decide at what time you can trust others and at what time you must take deadly control of your or your firendship bonds situations to insure safety of your family.
Must have weapons for protection. If you are buying weapons, buy those calibers that are easy to find ammo for. Shot guns with buck shot are good. 45, 38, 357, 9mm, and 22; are easisly avaiable.
The last is to understand your local Civil Law enforcement authorities.
If meltdown occurs, anarchy will happen, local law enfrocements officers will be short handed, they may even leave the force to go home and protect their own family. Need to know how you may help them keep civility in your area. Also, if it gets bad, they may have to turn their heads sometimes and not see what is happening. They will need the help!
Hopefully this will not occur. We may in Nov 2010 get a conservative congress back. If so, they must take immediate drastic actions to stop the runnaway spending. That is our only hope.
Also, remember during the 1930's the world did not come to an end. The big difference though is that they had morals, hard work ethics, religion, and laws.



posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by E-ville
 


That's true. Most city folk won't go into the woods because "there's nothing out there" or "there's snakes and bugs". Many of them will survive like city rats, squabbling over food and water. Hence the violence will ensue. Keeping the mob at bay won't be as difficult here since most people out here are hunters and farmers anyhow. They don't take too kindly to strangers inside their fences. I live more than 30 miles from a real city (and they aren't really major cities). I got a view of the Appalachian Trail on 2 sides. Got food and supplies, and also packed a BO pack just in case. Got a .357 and .44 mag to keep me safe (in case the 30/06 fails).
I'm a good ways away from AZ though



posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 10:15 PM
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I think there will be places to go for all types of people. If your willing to work hard in the fields to grow food; find a farming community that needs the help. If you want to rape and pillage the interstates will be your turf. If you are prepared and are already there you know what to do; drop trees and bridges to make impassable points and post sentry's to let the good in and kill the bad.



posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by chilipep7
 





We may in Nov 2010 get a conservative congress back. If so, they must take immediate drastic actions to stop the runnaway spending. That is our only hope.



in way i wish i could believe this. they are all the same. obama expanded on bush policies, the next will expand on obama's.
i worry more about the end of m.e. war, the danger being bringing troops home is a threat. to really lock down the country in any sort of martial law way, it'll take a lot of man power.



posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 10:31 PM
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Let's just be blunt. You have every right to be concerned and yes you will probably have to shoot someone. If you have food and shelter and someone passing through wants it then what are you going to do? If an event happens to where people have to evacuate back to the woods then you are going to have all sorts of personalities coming your way. Your forest is not going to matter to the scared and hungry. Have you ever heard that it's a dog eat dog world? That will be true with a lot of folks. You need to get a group up who thinks like you do and plan to gather somewhere in case of emergency. Strength in numbers. You will have to plan for a person to food ratio also. You can't have more people in your group than food procurement. Everyone in the group has to have a trade to benefit the whole. A farmer, a hunter, a nurse or doctor, maybe even a dentist.

Read "One Second After" by William Forstchen. It's about a EMP event happening in America. It's not a happy book but it gives you an idea of what could happen if such an event happened.



posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 10:56 PM
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I hate the whole idea of dying in a world where you don't know who your friends or your enemies are.
You're absolutely right, everywhere within a 50 mile radius of every city will be overrun by people escaping from them.
Bottom line - in the end we will have to trust somebody or perish.



posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by chilipep7
 


Outstanding post, sir!!


I'm in total agreement with you.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 12:53 AM
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My tips if your worried about economic collapse.. in order of importance

1. get out of populated areas, and or have a plan to get uout before every one else want to get out, have a place to go that is remote..preferably with friends or family, forming a "clan" of sorts

2. Buy food and supplies now, rice and beans are great long term storage of nutrients, canned good come second.. a years worth or more.. then worry about salt and pepper etc..

3. protection, that means a gun and other weapons, and lots of ammo, even a .22 is a great tool for hunting small game and protection , However learn hot to use it and be accurate with it.

4. other survival items, solar panels batteries anything that can allow you to survive easier.

5. after you have a place to go , protection and food to eat then convert any extra fiat cash into commodities.. silver (small OZ rounds is what I'd recommend) gold, copper anything thats material and always holds value.

6. luxury survival items.. I have gone as far as getting a large travel trailer that would allow very comfortable living even if the economy completely tanked.. In-case I lost the house , cars ect.. I have accumulated over a few years, a large travel trail and truck to haul it and extra older yet very sound cars.. all paid for free and clear.. if the economy really tanks.. I have no worries, I have everything I need to carry on a normal lifestyle with 0 payments or liens.. If stuff gets bad, I default on my debts (car, home, etc.) and have bad credit but have a backup for everything I'd loose on a smaller scale.. I also have property to live on thats free and clear.. I have even went as far as making this travel trailer completely off grid powered via solar power etc.. Literally, If I had to, I could live all year long on next to nothing and have most abilities I have now.. with only minor inconvenience..

I'm a preparedness person , and i may take these things to extreams, however.. I don't worry about the collapse.. it doesn't bother me because I know I'm pretty well set..

Step 7
I'm now at the point in preparing that I'm looking at how I can maximize potential in the event it all goes bad... I'm looking at the collapse as a time when I can be very well off.. I can help others and yet benefit from the advantage I have from being ready.

This ties in to the original post.. yes it would be a rough period after a collapse, however after a year things would begin to find there place, people would figure out ways to barter fairly etc.. thats the key. if you can stockpile now and defend your self and live through the first year .. you'll be in a good position after things settle down a bit..

The biggest threat i see in a economic collapse situation isnt food or shelter or any of those other things , those are pretty simple to prepair for.. the hardest factor to prepair for is the human factor.. desperate people very quickly return to primal animal instincts... this is why i made number 1 on this list number 1 .. the less people you have to deal with the better.. until things settle down that is after that being humans are very social, social order will set in again..



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 02:08 AM
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reply to post by rubbertramp
 


If you follow what intelligent people like Gerald Celente suggest will happen (and I do) then I fear the associated occurences more than the collapse itself.

The entire bail-out scenario was designed to delay the inevitable. It's a staged collapse, designed to be spread out over a period of years, not over a weekend.
But that doesn't stop me from worrying about what will happen at the flashpoints.

Example.
A major American Bank collapses (this is almost a certainty IMO). The Govt. cannot afford to bail it out (as I understand it, if they do try it it's likely financial support from China will collapse, and the credit rating will have to be lowered drastically all around the world, making the $ truly and obviously defunct).
They might announce that they are backing all deposits (but in theory they are simply assuring a sequence of numbers stays on a database, they don't have any cash to give you).
The only option the Govt. has is to close all public financial outlets across the country.

If they don't take this step, the likely scenario is that this will cause many millions of people around the country to try to withdraw their cash. We all know this is impossible due to fractional reserve banking.
So, even if the banks do stay open long enough to give the first 10% of crazed customers their money, there will be potentially millions of extremely angry people on the streets.
Not only will that cause problems for that one bank, it'll pass to other banks, creating a successive "run".

In theory, the Govt. would close all banking systems (including the Casino of Wall St to prevent a complete and utter meltdown) and distribute the numbers held by that defunct bank to other banks. But they can only do this if they have warning.
There is no reason to believe that a major bank would be very helpful in complying with government and providing such a warning. In addition, we all know how outside forces might influence this situation for their own gain.

However this plays out, there would be millions of people in the USA wondering just how safe their money is.
If all the banks suddenly become unavailable to those who use them, chaos would ensue.

How this would play out in the UK is what concerns me. I have almost no doubt that this will start in the USA. You guys really do seem to be ahead of the rest of us in the collapse, if only by a few weeks.

Because of the manner in which high street banks now have a seat at the international casino, any closure of US trading on a national scale would likely cause ripples of similar action around the world.

Interestingly, Mr Celente has been forecasting for several months now that America will know once and for all that the $ is dead before the end of this year. And I have to say that I think he's probably right.

If a major bank collapse is looming, knowing how the US Govt. is in bed with regulators and senior banking bods, it's likely that they'll simply delay any collapse until after November (that's when you're playing your little election game isn't it?)
So i'll be ensuring that I'm taking out enough cash to last me a few weeks at a time. I'll also be stocking up on supplies - just in case.

Personally, I believe it'd have to get pretty bad for me to consider leaving my home. And I don't see that happening due to a bank collapse. I don't live in a major city. If I lived in Central London I might think differently.
And living in New York or LA while this is going on will be much more dangerous than living in a small town in Ohio.

It's also interesting how you mention helping others.
The fact is, if it ever comes to a point where hundreds or thousands of people are invading your region looking for the very basics of Human survival, all bets are off. That's the point at which you stop being a socially responsible citizen toward strangers and start recognising that your own survival depends on your ability to protect what little you have for yourself and those you love.
Screw everyone else! If they don't have the foresight to prepare, it's natural selection and nothing more.

By all means be a good citizen while the climate is right, and toward those who have similar ambitions and a true grasp of the reality of the situation, but none of us should be considering how we could possibly help a handful of people in a crowd of crazies who had no clue of what was coming.

On a side note, I have been thinking recently of where the next crack would appear. For a while I have been trying to get my head around the Credit Card market.
It seems in 2008/9 Americans were paying off their credit cards like never before. But a new article shows that credit card companies have almost doubled their efforts in snaring new (and old) customers through propositioning by mail.



Credit-card issuers mailed 84.8 million offers of plastic to U.S. subprime borrowers in the first six months of this year, up from 43.7 million a year earlier, estimates research firm Synovate.


Full Article Here

Now, to me that suggests they are becoming desperate for new debters. Others might think that they are simply trying to take advantage of people who find themselves in a desperate situation. But to me it shows they are prepared to take on incredible risk. Why would we think they haven't been so irresponsible in the past?
That could be why they are so desperate for new customers, and going after only the extremely desperate.

Now, back into the collapse itself.
I don't expect we'll see a complete breakdown of services such as water and power, unless there is an event to cause it.
That's not so far-fetched as America loses dominance, and loses its ability to pay China. That could open a whole new can of worms that doesn't bear thinking about. Still a while off in the distance though IMO.
But you'll still have regional governance to take care of the supplies of services. And if they can't meet that, you'll have regional groups of citizens forming to sieze power (Militia?) to ensure the people get what they need.

All any of us need to do really is ensure we have enough to last a few days, and keep an eye on which way the wind is blowing.
The things that could sneak up on us are:
Bank collapse leading to civil unrest which will lead to you not wanting to leave your house and not being able to get food and supplies even if you did - because of looting.
Union and public protests turning violent, resulting in the same.
A well-timed false flag attack.
A natural disaster.

These are all events that could be managed by us individually through just using our common sense and being prepared. We should be prepared in the way of energy, food, water and security anyway. So nothing has really changed in the immediate preparations for an event.

In the long term, people should be preparing for the austerity measures to come by installing solar panels, installing water purification systems, lowering their use of energy through adjusting lifestyle, reducing dependency on fuel, ripping up the lawn and replacing it with a garden that will produce food, keeping chickens... Whatever they can do to cover self sustainability.
On the security and protection issues, installing an intruder alarm, buying a gun, joining community projects and arranging produce swaps, forming local militias in the event of having to secure your street or town... they are aspects that will help any individual or family if (or when) things really fall apart regionally, nationally or globally.

Wow, didn't know I had so much to say on it.
Good thread!



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 02:34 AM
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The number one item in my bugout bag will be curry powder and salt. Why you ask??

To flavour my fellow man with of course.
There will be so much food lying around on every corner, it will be those who are prepared to cure and flavour another man that will never run out of nutrition. LOL



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by rubbertramp
my fear is my chosen safe spots being over run with fleeing people.
for instance, say pheonix has it's water supply disrupted. there is a very good chance that once all the water is gone the entire city will empty out.
where will they go, you ask?
into my woods, that's where.
millions of hungry, thirsty unprepared humans, invading americas forests.


Although there will be some, there won't be as many as you think.

Indoorians will stay near food and water out of fear. There are no shops in the woods, or taps to turn on.

The majority will fall on their knees and just beg someone to save them. The idea of saving themselves won't even enter most of their minds.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 


i agree with basically everything you said. gerald does make some very good points, along with others like peter shiff. i think that's the guys name i'm thinking of.
i still think the worst of the commercial forfeitures has not yet played out. when most of the smaller ma and pa type stores are history, and all that's left is walmart, this will further decline any manufacturing we have left.




I don't expect we'll see a complete breakdown of services such as water and power, unless there is an event to cause it.


this is something i think about often. what is next. i think the gov. has played out pushing fear of explosions, plane crashes 9/11 style etc......
i think one like scenario may be something like poisoning a big cities water supply, blaming al q.
another scenario could be fire. a terrorist/ cia agent with a 5 gallon can of gas and a lighter could do an incredible amount of damage in these dry years.
don't want to give anybody any ideas though.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by E-ville
convert any extra fiat cash into commodities.. silver (small OZ rounds is what I'd recommend) gold, copper


There again with the rocks. Can you tell me what the hell good these rocks are going to do you when there is no more economy? People, survivalists or not, are not going to want pretty rocks, they are going to want food, water, medical goods, etc.

This is twice now in this thread to ask that question, a question I have been asking of people for a couple of years, that say to stock these rocks ...... I still have yet to get an answer.


Originally posted by NuclearPaul
Indoorians will stay near food and water out of fear.


"Indoorians" LOLOL, I'll have to remember that one!



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by rubbertramp
reply to post by Misfit
 


i've stashed a bit, few coins but mostly scrap jewelry, truth be though, i don't trust gold.
i think most is kept off the market in order to artificially inflate the price,.
same concept as de beers does with diamonds.
any time the hording elite ptb want to they can flood the market and drop the price way down. did i say way down.


misfit, i posted this on the first page, in case you missed it, honestly think it's the truth.

i'm stocking .223, 22 long and short, 45 asp, 308 nato rounds and a few others.

[edit on 15-7-2010 by rubbertramp]



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by rubbertramp
 

Thank you, but that still doesn't answer my question, maybe I am not saying it right.

If we have a worst case economic breakdown, which many are expecting, there is no more "market" to dictate what is valuable. Gold, silver, etc, will just be pretty rocks. When it comes to survival of the fittest, and people rioting for food, and escaping to the hills, WHO is going to want rocks, when they are starving and dehydrated?



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by Misfit
 


ok, that is a bit different than i thought.
i'd have to say, the well prepared and the wealthy.
an economic collapse will undoubtedly hit the poor, first and hardest.
the poor will be looking for food and water and other supplies. if you were well prepared, and had these items already you may look for something in trade, of say a water filter. if there was nothing the poor guy could offer that you may need, but a gold chain, it would be considered.
even in a meltdown, the believers have faith that things will get back to normal.
during the depression, and especially the dust bowl era, wealthy people went into the dustbowls with food and supplies, trading them to the hungry for whatever they could offer. if it was silver or gold, they took it, stashed it away for better days, and once we pulled out of the depression the price came back up.
the poor tend to look short term, the wealthy tend to look long term.
i'm still not sure if i'm hitting on your exact question.



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