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NEWS: China is Sending Nuclear Technology to Iran and NK

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posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 06:06 AM
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China is sending nuclear technology to Iran and is allowing North Korea to use Chinese air, rail and seaports to send missiles and other weapons.
 

China Helping Iran, North Korea on Weapons-Panel



The U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, established by Congress in 2000, tends to be skeptical of Beijing, and its conclusions are often controversial.

"China's assistance to weapons of mass destruction-related programs in countries of concern continues, despite repeated promises to end such activities and the repeated imposition of U.S. sanctions," the commission concluded.

Unlike the 1990s, "Chinese transfers have evolved from sales of complete missile systems to exports of largely dual-use nuclear, chemical, and missile components and technologies; qualitatively, these transfers are equally worrisome," it said.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


It seems the Chinese government is still aiding countries that have been named as the axis of evil and have been known to make threats against the US and other countries.

Related News

Iran in the News

Iran and China on the news making threats

[edit on 16-6-2004 by Muaddib]

[edit on 6-16-2004 by Valhall]

[edit on 20-7-2004 by Banshee]




posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 08:54 AM
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Its my opinion that China seems to have replace the USSR as America's main rival. During the Cold War it was always the USSR that supported countries threatened by America but now China has taken on the role. Anyone else agree?



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 08:57 AM
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Yes, this is similar in that respect eddie. Doesn't seem promising though does it?



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 11:17 AM
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Yes I agree, China seems to have taken the USSR's place. This is worrisome for the US. I wonder what exactly the US will do in this situation... And now that China is backing Iran and it looks like Iran might be up to something funny, things could start heating up...


df1

posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 12:41 PM
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The chinese are a very patient people that take a long term view of everything. The chinese will crush the west. Maybe not this year, maybe not in 10 years, but in time. They are the chessmasters that use all of the clock to determine the best move everytime, while the leaders of the western countries are playing the grand game like it is a game checkers which must be finished in 15 minutes.

Have no doubt that the US will respond boldly in a completely irrational manner.
.



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 12:54 PM
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The Chinese aren't the only ones selling nuclear components to Iran. As well as recently selling them and North Korea TCP's for chemical weapons, in 2002 the U.K also illegally sold Iran Beryllium (a component needed for nuclear bombs).
Check this link posted by Seekerof in another thread: BBC UK Sells Bomb Material to Iran




[edit on 16-6-2004 by kegs]



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 10:05 PM
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What makes you think that the Russians have stopped helping terrorists?

This link is a good example of the evidence that points that this old country is still alive and kicking.....btw if communism is dead in Russia how come Putin is geting tough on freedom of speech in Russia and they are still having anti-american propaganda over there?

Not to mention that both Russia and China have adamantly said that a new cold war would start if the US ever adopted a missile defense system, such system exists in both countries and Russia udgraded theirs in 2003.... Why would these countries not want the US to have missile defense systems?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

" WASHINGTON — The tenor of Russian-American relations has gone from elation to guarded optimism, and most recently, to wariness and doubt that high expectations for democracy and friendship can ever be fulfilled, sources on both sides are suggesting.
..........................
They also cited Russian President Vladimir Putin’s recent crackdown on free speech and a consolidation of state power reminiscent of past authoritarian regimes. "

Excerpted from.
www.foxnews.com...

You can find many other links with pretty much the same info, and even more so coming from Russian defectors.


[edit on 16-6-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 10:45 PM
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I wasn't very good in history but it seems that the Chinese have kept to themselves pretty well. They probably look at us as the agressor much like we used to view the Soviets. We are pretty much doing what the Soviets used to do. Take over small nations and put in your type of government whether the people wanted it or not and use those countries to establish bases and further expand the program of imperialism.



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 11:22 PM
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The Chinese have not been attacked like we were in 9/11. Also the Chinese are not so innocent as they have said they will go to war over Taiwan even thou most Taiwanese people do not want to be a part of China.

We were attacked by a group of people who want the west and the US in general destroyed or under the banner of Islamic extremism... There are countries like Iraq and dictators like Saddam who have been, and still are, helping such terrorists.

The US is going to let other Iraqi people have power in Iraq. I hardly call that a dictatorship. I have also posted links to what the UN sanctions did before the war on terror in Iraq. More people have died because of these sanctions, mainly 500,000 children under the age of 5, than the people in the war. And many countries have been in a scandal over the oil for food program in which they pretty much sold other things to Saddam wihch were not nutrients at all.



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 11:24 PM
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The thing is the people in Iraq don't want us in there anymore than the people of Taiwan want the Chinese in there. The Chinese are going to impose their form of government just like we are imposing ours on Iraq. Why should the people of Iraq want us there. I am sure the elders remember all too well what happened the last time we tried to "help". We gave them Saddam.



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 11:38 PM
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How exactly did we give them Saddam?

The people that do not want us there are mostly Islamic extremists, also note that any moderate in a radical site in Iraq would be executed just by being moderate...

If i remember it was the back then president of Iraq al-Bakr who gave the presidency, well the vice-presidency, to Saddam. From then on he did his work....

November 1969 President al-Bakr, Saddam's kinsman, appoints Saddam Deputy Chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council (RCC) and Vice-President. He controls the internal security and intelligence organs and is the driving force behind the regime.

# November 1968 Nasir al-Hani, former Foreign Minister and co-plotter of the 17 July, 1968 coup is abducted from his home under the pretext that President Bakr wanted to consult with him. A few days later his body is discovered dumped in a ditch.

# January 1969 17 alleged "spies" (including 13 Jews) are hanged in Liberation Square.

# August 8, 1969 Kurdish village of Dakan in Mosul governorate is site of a massacre performed by the army.


Excerpted from.
www.iraqfoundation.org...

[edit on 17-6-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 07:03 AM
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Forgive me for the legnth of this post, but I have alot to say about it.

Let me start by saying: This is surprising to people?

Hell, we and our allies do the very same thing. We just don't do it with countries we can gain something from being at odds with (like Iran and North Korea for instance). If it benefited us and they weren't considered adversaries, we'd be doing the same thing. The whole notion that we're innocent and these other countries are "gathering threats" (not that they aren't...) isn't something new. That stuff goes on, and has gone on, and will go on, for ages. It's just that normaly nobody makes it a high profile issue, because nobody wants to start a war. But then war (in very specific cases, and in specific locations or regions) becomes preferable to (or more profitable than) the alternative, the spin begins, and the PR machine starts puting emphasis on things that go on normaly all the time without our awareness. It's all smoke and mirrors, and it's all done in far less intricate or intellectualy challenging ways than most people think. People believe what they're told.

That's why we could afford to leave Iraq alone for 12 years, and then suddenly they became an "immiment threat." The same goes for North Korea. They (atleast potentialy) have had one or two nukes for years. It's just that we need a good reason to reposition our forces in the Asia-Pacific theater, to deal with today's threats (as opposed to the threats of the "Cold War," which was yet another example of these games that go on for so long). The difference with North Korea, of course, is that they actualy have nuclear weapons (unlike Iraq...and unlike Iran...SO FAR), and their leader is paranoid enough to use them under the right circumstances.

1) Iraq, a country with pathetic military forces compared to our own, with no WMD that could be used in an attack against the U.S. What have we done? We've conquered them in three weeks, even against the will of most of the international community, under the pretext of preventing attacks against America with nonexistant WMD (atleast none that could be used against us as readily as North Korean nukes could). I'm not saying Iraq never had any WMD, just that North Korea poses a more immediate threat.

2) North Korea's regime on the other hand, is unstable, has nukes and would use them if pushed too far, and has millions of soldiers forward deployed and poised to kill thousands south of the DMZ at a moment's notice if need be, and last but not least, has missiles that could potentialy reach the continental U.S. and could definitely hit Japan. What have we done in this far more dire case? Moved our troops south, out of the immediate line of fire, and negotiated with them endlessly, and thusfar fruitlessly, for the most part, while playing down the crisis in the media, focusing instead on Iraq and the war on terror.

See what I'm getting at? It isn't that the threats they say exist don't exist. It's just that they pick and choose which ones to place emphasis on, or to take action against, as it suits them. The rest of the time, they de-emphasize them, and the majority of joe-public doesn't know there's a threat at all. It's the paradox of geopolitics and military intervention. The status quo is a perpetual and general state of threat that ALWAYS exists, but usualy there isn't a major conflict because ultimately peace is more profitable for everyone concerned. But when that changes, we make it an issue in a big hurry. It's mind boggling.

As for China itself, the fact is that regardless of your view of the situation, there isn't a whole hell of a lot the U.S. can do with regard to them, apart from "containment." We can negotiate with them and placate them. We might be able to keep them from becoming involved in a North Korean conflict, for instance, by getting them to calculate that they'd be better off not getting involved (in the long run) than they would spending thousands of soldiers trying to push us back like the last time. We could convince them that North Korea was a dying regime, and that it wouldn't be worth their effort to salvage. We might be able to indefinitely put off a conflict over Taiwan by stalling and telling them what they want to hear.

But in the end, if China chose to invade Taiwan, or to side with North Korea in a conflict on the Korean peninsula, what can we really do about it? We have no sufficiently accurate predictive model for what would happen, and even the best case scenarios for North Korea alone involve thousands dead in the opening weeks of conflict, even without Chinese intervention. We'd probably win, but losses would be huge (on both sides).

And heaven forbid full scale war ever breaks out between continental China and the continental U.S. If it did, while I think the U.S. would ultimately prevail (but not easily...this wouldn't be an Iraq or Afghanistan, it would be a struggle on the order of somewhere between the Korean war and WW2 I think), the losses on both sides would be the most catostrophic since the last world war.

As I always say on this topic: let's hope this NEVER comes to pass. And if it does, I'm not religious, but heaven help us all (on both sides).

[edit on 17-6-2004 by AceWombat04]

[edit on 17-6-2004 by AceWombat04]



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 06:53 PM
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Once more, even the UN in June 11 2004 has said that Saddam had WMD and it seems that those who are loyal to him have been shipping more WMD components to other parts. I posted this in another thread but here is the link..

" UN inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before war and after"
Excerpted from.
www.worldtribune.com...



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 08:14 PM
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We are in agreement. They had WMD. Of that I have no doubt.

It's just that they had the (more or less) same WMD for years prior to their becoming an 'imminent threat' in the public eye suddenly, and North Korea poses a much starker and more imminent threat to the U.S. and it's allies. North Korea is also closer to having the means to deliver them at long range (indeed they may have it as we speak) than Iraq ever was.

I assumed most of Iraq's WMD were sent to Syria and elsewhere since before the war started, anyway. That just demonstrates that they weren't ready and able to deploy them against us as we were led to believe. North Korea, however, probably is. Yet, the exact opposite hyperbole is being used in the DPRK's case. It receives consistent downplayment, and we're doing everything but starting a serious confrontation. Why? Because unlike Iraq, North Korea really is an 'imminent threat,' and not a very profitable one (especialy in an election year).



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 09:52 PM
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WE SHOULD GIVE TAIWAN SOME NUKES....



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 01:38 AM
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Please wise up, American people. You are all deceived by US hawks, LOL!

Please think the present global and US situation. First of all, the Iraqi administration will been given to Iraqi people soon and US want to retreat from Iraqi quagmire, so the US need to set up a new enemy for themselves, and China is a perfect candidate for US considering China’s potential because US dislikes another super power nation to emerge in front of US no matter who this country is. Secondly, with the coming up of US president’s election, the Bush’s government must establish an image of “Devil Communist empire” to attract the votes of US right wingers and want to win the election. Now that you are all fooled by Bush, I think his tactics do the trick! LOL

The U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission mainly consists of the right wingers, so I don’t surprised at their comments, but what is their evidence? Logically, by no means has China been sending nuclear technology to NK, because this goes against China’s policy and national interests. The Korea peninsula without WMD including the nukes meets China’s interests, just like US dislike his neighbors, Canada and Mexican, to possess their own nukes! As for Iran, why is China sending nuclear technology to it? For oil or opposing US?neither of them, there are no reasons for it. The relationship between China and Iran is not so good that China willing to do so at the cost of destroying our relationship with other countries, such as Middle East nations, Russia, as well as Pakistan that is our best friend in the world.

No doubt the US right wingers will continue to deface and destroy China. If there are yet another provoking and sensational news from some organization of US, don’t surprise, and this is their work, but their skills so lower! LOL. Remember the report of the US Pentagon about China the other day? It said China’s military force is a threat for US and suggested Taiwan to attack China’s major Cities and even the Dam of Chinese three Gorge, which is most in capacity in the world. However, even the nukes can not destroy this dam, LOL. How Taiwan should destroy it? This US suggestion only bring Taiwanese into devastation, perhaps US!

BTW, don’t tell me you don’t find anything to support your arguments just as in Iraq about the WMD, or found some components sold by China that can also be used in cars, refrigerators, and televisions etc.


[edit on 18-6-2004 by devmim]

[edit on 18-6-2004 by devmim]

[edit on 18-6-2004 by devmim]

[edit on 18-6-2004 by devmim]

[edit on 18-6-2004 by devmim]



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 11:55 PM
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devmim, you should give links to this supposed article where the US tells Taiwan to destroy the three gorge damn in China..... Where is the link? Links, we need links...

You think that making laughing faces and not presenting any links with "actual information" as to what you are saying is going to make anyone think you are right? Guess again....

As for the US trying to paint communism as evil...there is no need, those who have lived to see what communism does know that communism=evil.

Have you ever heard of an American official defecting to China? No, but there are several Chinese officials defecting to the US. I wonder why....

Also btw, i want to see a link with a statement of the US making a "direct threat to China", something like, "War with China is inevitable and we must make sure we have the upper hand...", which we had a chinese official stating in 1999. Now in response to your asinine comment about the US making China look evil here are a few links to refresh your memory.

" December 1999 statement of Gen. Chi Haotian, defense minister and vice-chairman of the Communist Party's Central Military Commission:

"Seen from the changes in the world situation and the hegemonic strategy of the United States to create monopolarity . . . war is inevitable. We cannot avoid it. The issue is that the Chinese armed forces must control the initiative in this war military bloc headed by U.S. hegemonists. . . . We must be prepared to fight for one year, two years, three years or even longer." So far as I know there has been no repudiation of the statement by Gen. Chi, who for his role in the 1989 slaughter of defenseless.
"

Excerpted from.
www.taiwandc.org...

"Since the late 1980s, Beijing has come to see the United States not as a strategic partner but as the chief obstacle to its own strategic ambitions. It has, therefore, worked to reduce American influence in Asia, to prevent Japan and the United States from creating a "contain China" front, to build up a military with force projection capability, and to expand its presence in the South China and East China Seas so that it controls the region's essential sea-lanes. China's sheer size and inherent strength, its conception of itself as a center of global civilization, and its eagerness to redeem centuries of humiliating weakness are propelling it toward Asian hegemony. Its goal is to ensure that no country in the region -- whether Japan seeking oil exploration rights in the East China Sea, Taiwan inviting the Dalai Lama for an official visit, or Thailand allowing American naval vessels to dock in its ports -- will act without taking China's interests into prime consideration.

TACTICALLY TACTFUL
..........................................................................................................................
Influential Chinese planners like General Mi Zhenyu, vice-commandant of the Academy of Military Sciences in Beijing, on the other hand, will see it as the next step in bringing China's strength and influence up to par with the United States. "For a relatively long time it will be absolutely necessary that we quietly nurse our sense of vengeance," Mi wrote last year. "We must conceal our abilities and bide our time." "

Excerpted from.
www.foreignpolicy2000.org...

The below is a paper which I cannot copy here because i do not have permission from the Canadian Department of National Defence, but below is the link. The paper was written by/par Major H.A. Hynes, a student at the Canadian Forces College. Althou it does say that it is an scholastic document, and thus it contains facts and opinions, that it does not necessarily states the policy or opinion of any agency, or the Canadian government. It is still a good read.

www.fas.org...

The Chinese government have seen democratic presidents as friends, since most, if not all, democratic presidents have been selling the US to the Chinese communist government, and also to the Russians.

" "We like your president. I will give you 300,000 U.S. dollars. You can give it to the president and the Democratic Party. We hope he will be reelected."

— Former Democratic donor Johnny Chung, recounting his instructions from the Chinese military intelligence chief, Gen. Ji Shengde. (Los Angeles Times, May 7, 1999) "


Excerpted from.
www.opensecrets.org...


It was president Jimmy Carter who made a treaty to give away the Panama canal, which was built by the taxes and blood that Americans paid, and it was finally Clinton...another democrat... who made official the transfer on December 14 of 1999. Clinton was obviously in a hurry to make this transfer before the official December 31 transfer...

" Hutchison Whampoa, a front company for China's People's Liberation Army (PLA), has already acquired leases giving it control of the ports of Cristobal and Balboa at each end of the Canal. Hutchison Whampoa is also in the process of taking over Rodman Naval Station and other military facilities being abandoned by the United States. Whampoa pays Panama $22.2 million a year and makes large investments in the country's infrastructure. This company, headed by Li Kashing, is closely tied with the China Ocean Shipping Co. (COSCO), which is controlled by the military industrial complex of the Chinese government. COSCO is the same company that almost succeeded in gaining control of the abandoned naval station at Long Beach, Calif. The canal is a vital component of American trade and defense capabilities. With the Chinese gaining a foothold in our backyard, we are extremely susceptible to their ballistic missiles. "

Excerpted from.
www.worldnetdaily.com...

Or if you prefer Devnim I could do what you do, just laugh my butt off and without posting any links to back up my statements, ask for everyone not to fall for what you are saying and the lies the Chinese government is feeding to the media... Oh btw...is there freedom of speech in China? or freedom of the press?..........


[edit on 19-6-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 01:00 AM
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The UN is censuring Iran for not cooperating and for covering up the fact that they have been trying to hide their nuclear weapons program.
 

Iran Rebuked in IAEA's Harsh Resolution; Diplomats Say Photos May Show New Nuclear Cover-Up


VIENNA, Austria (AP) - The U.N. nuclear watchdog agency censured Iran for past cover-ups in a resolution adopted Friday, and warned Tehran to be more forthcoming if it wants an investigation of suspect activities to end.

The resolution submitted by three European powers - France, Germany and Britain - was a product of days of diplomatic maneuvering at a meeting of the 35-member board of governors of the International Atomic Energy Agency. It did not hand down sanctions against the country.

The document, passed by consensus, "deplores" that "Iran's cooperation has not been as full, timely and proactive as it should have been. It notes "with concern that after almost two years," since Iran's undeclared program came to light that "a number of questions remain outstanding."

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


The UN has been making these statements after they have seen satellite pictures of the secret dismatlement and burying of at least one facility at Lavizan Shian, previously disclosed as a possible weapons of mass destruction location.

[edit on 19-6-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
devmim, you should give links to this supposed article where the US tells Taiwan to destroy the three gorge damn in China..... Where is the link? ? or freedom of the press?..........


[edit on 19-6-2004 by Muaddib]





Hi Muaddib, I have thought you are informed because this news is well known for everybody, so I thought it is unnecessary for me to give the link.
Now that I overestimated you, now I give the link.

It is very easy for me to give you a link in Chinese, but you dont know Chinese language. Furthermore, It is very difficult for me to give you an original link in English because I have never read US newspapers or articles of US web. Therefore, I can only make a compromise in this link, which is not the original.

The relevant links are as follows, please:

www.threegorgesprobe.org...

www.threegorgesprobe.org...

www.threegorgesprobe.org...

www.threegorgesprobe.org...

www.threegorgesprobe.org...

[edit on 19-6-2004 by devmim]



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 06:06 PM
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I don't see any pentagon report in there. I just see the view of people who seem to be loyal to the Chinese government and some Chinese officials saying such report exist. You gave links from the same source. The whole thing started from a Chinese newspaper, which would be completly biased against the West... Once more, is there such thing as freedom of the press in China?......



2004-06-09 16:05:14

Taipei, June 9 (CNA) Vice Defense Minister Tsai Ming-hsien said Wednesday that the U.S. Department of Defense has never suggested that Taiwan should aim missiles at mainland China's Three Gorges dam as a way to deter any possible mainland invasion.

Tsai made the remarks at a meeting of the Legislative Yuan's Defense Committee, where opposition Kuomintang (KMT) Legislator Chiang Chi-wen asked about Tsai's view on a U.S. media report that the Pentagon has suggested that Taiwan consider aiming missiles at certain large mainland infrastructure projects, such as the Three Gorges dam, with a view to deterring any possible mainland attack.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Excerpted from.
PENTAGON REPORT DOES NOT SUGGEST THREE GORGES DAM TARGETED: MND

Once more, do not make any claims that people are not informed when your own sources are completly biased coming from a communist country where there is no freedom of the press, thank you very much....but no thanks. I do not trust the media in such matters when the state in your country completly controls the media.


[edit on 19-6-2004 by Muaddib]




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