ATS visiting the Tea Party!

reply to post by whaaa

"If the TPM is successful and incumbents are voted out, Obama is a lame duck, and people are voted into office that embrace the TPM platform"

"What then???"

All I get are blank stares and silence.

Great Question, and I'm sorry you only get blank stares. And I am also a little concerned, because I have a feeling that a large portion of the TPM might be guilty of this. "Lets Get Em" but now we got em, so now what?

Here is what they should be saying:

1. This is only a mid-term election. Obama won't technically be a lame duck, he just won't have a 'yesman' Congress anymore. If the TPM is successful, a lot of the replacements will be independents, and critical thinkers, and they will be open to a lot of Obama's good ideas. You remember....the ideas from the Campaign trail that evaporated after the election.

2. This grassroots movement is only going to grow! There is another election in 2012. That is a lot of time to recruit newer better candidates. Maybe even establish the TPM as a real political party. Maybe recruit some coommon folks to run for offices that would never have thought of it.

3. If the TPM is successful, then after the election we have to start attacking some of the problem areas in the laws. Immigration is at the top of the list. We have to start repealing some laws, like the Patriot Act and mandatory drug sentencing. We have to start acting on all the resentment that created the need for the TPM.

4. We have to beat the pavement. The candidates that get into office on the support of the Tea Party better be back in our towns often! They better be listening and communicating, and taking actions. The TPM will be watching their voting records and attendance in session, and we will be holding them accountable for what they told us in private meetings as well as campaign promises. If the TPM is successful, and we help them get in, we sure as hell can help them get out!!

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

We're definitely taking all points in this thread to heart, and especially want to make the effort to get our member's questions in front of some of the "VIPs" and presenters at the event.

Our goal here, however, is not to stage a "gotcha" type scenario to embarrass "tea baggers," or, to even prop-up the core values of the "tea party" movement.

Thank You Bill! And I was never worried about ATS staging any type of Gotcha. Although I was a little worried that the questions would come from preconceived notions born in the MSM.

I would also never oppose an ATS look into the other side of any debates. That is what ATS is all about. We may have a few cuckoo members, and some hard-headed well-meaning ones, but overall it is known for very open discussion and fair representation.

ATS

Good Luck in AZ! And you are welcome in Tallahassee anytime. I'll shoot you a message if we get any good rallies or VIP visits in the near future.

Originally posted by whaaa
Like 12ga said, until the real power behind the scenes is changed ala special interest, corporate structure and influence; it's all just masturbatory rhetoric and sign waving. It feels good but in reality; it's pretty much meaningless.

That's the core issue that is never properly addressed properly by "Tea Party" events beyond the local scale. Individuals go to these events and generally get wiped into an emotional frenzy over the need to "vote the bastards out," without enough (or any) systemic introspection.

With a combination of election and campaign finance reform that eliminates special interest money, no elected official can ever promise to be incorruptible. The need to find cash for the next election begins the moment the last election ends.

In my (humble) opinion, for something like the tea party to be truly effective, it must focus less on the issues that divide the ideological lines, and more on a select few issues that bring the people together.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

The T.E.A. Party is about awareness of the issues that are important, the ones not covered by the MSM. Of course the entrenched Republican establishment will try to steal their energy, but people don't have to let them.
The T.E.A. Party does not have to enroll people to be effective, they don't have to have millions marching to be effective. They DO have to keep the important issues in the minds of the average American so that the established powers have to deal with those important issues. Constant vigilance.
When money no longer buys elections, at least ONE of the objectives of the T.E.A. Party has been accomplished. There is no need for campaign finance reform if money loses its effectiveness in swaying the electorate, and there are signs that that is happening to some extent. Discussions like this are key, and trust me, the entrenched powers are taking note.
Come November, let's just hope many of them are jobless. That would be a good start.

Edit: clean up.


[edit on 15-7-2010 by Stewie]

Originally posted by getreadyalready






2. This grassroots movement is only going to grow! There is another election in 2012. That is a lot of time to recruit newer better candidates. Maybe even establish the TPM as a real political party. Maybe recruit some coommon folks to run for offices that would never have thought of it.

Grassroots movement? Not really!

www.theatlantic.com...

Another question I would like for ATS to ask the organizers of this AZ meeting.

Who writes the checks to pay for the porta potties, advertising, travel expenses, etc. and are the speakers paid.

My guess is that if you look behind the curtain; you will find huge corporate sponsors with an agenda.



I think the questions can be asked without the "gotcha" journalism style but isn't "conspiracy" the middle name of ATS?

[edit on 15-7-2010 by whaaa]

reply to post by whaaa

They are: FreedomWorks, the conservative action group led by Dick Armey; dontGO, a tech savvy free-market action group that sprung out of last August's oil-drilling debate in the House of Representatives; and Americans for Prosperity,

That is from your link.

I am one of the 3 people that showed up at that first Tea Party meeting in my town on that first Saturday morning. Since then we have grown to the point where our last rally had 10,000+ on the front lawn of Florida's Capital. We are in Tallahassee, and many of our members are high ranking government officials.

I guarantee with 100% certainty that our Tea Party in my town has never met anyone from any of thse groups mentioned, and that we have never accepted a dime of money from anybody except our members and local businesses!

What people don't understand is that their is no single Tea Party. There is no leader, there is no agenda, there is no structure or national registry.

This is the epitomy of a grassroots movement. The Tea Party you see on TV is of no consequence. It is all for tv. Please find your local Tea Party and go visit. You will see the difference.

As for who pays for things. The members pay for things. The local businesses pay for things. Many things are donated. I guarantee, 100%, at least in my town, there is no national money coming in.

Originally posted by whaaa
I think the questions can be asked without the "gotcha" journalism style but isn't "conspiracy" the middle name of ATS?

I think the conspiracy in regard to the tea party "movement" is that these people have been generally fooled into believing that there is such a thing as "grassroots politics" any more.

Originally posted by Stewie
When money no longer buys elections, at least ONE of the objectives of the T.E.A. Party has been accomplished. There is no need for campaign finance reform if money loses its effectiveness in swaying the electorate

Money doesn't sway the "electorate" except when it comes to the dearth of deceptive political ads every campaign season... which goes back to the notion of divisive issues, rather than unifying issues.

One of the core speculative concepts of the "R.O.A.R." alternatives to the tea party discussed here on ATS some time back was the reform notion that incumbents would not be allowed to campaign for reelection... and that campaign funding for challengers must originate from sources within their regional constituencies. A simple idea that changes everything.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
The Tea Party you see on TV is of no consequence.

I respectfully disagree, and submit that it is of significant consequence: The Tea Party Is Over - The conspiracy to kill a grass roots political movement

Neither political party could tolerate the "Tea Party." It's early incarnation represented actual people demonstrating an ability to think for themselves, and the result of their startling "thinking" was the notion that the politicians -- not the other party -- are the problem. You can almost hear them, "Oh crap, that needs to stop, and fast!"

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Thanks for the link, I don't know how I lost that thread? I scanned it, but I am off to read it hrough after this post.

Anyhow, I don't doubt the conspiracy to kill the Tea Party. And I despise all the talking heads that jumped on our bandwagon to get more TV time.

Still, I really believe the MSM coverage, the implants, and the saboteurs are of no consequence. I know here locally (I wish I had more experience with other towns), but I know here locally that every event has been a wonderful family friendly event with a lot of good speakers, and a smorgasboard of politicians clamoring for our support.

When we started, we were having to schedule sit down time with politicians and they were hesitant to talk to us. Now they are calling us non-stop and begging to come address the group! There has been no attempt by any outside source to influence our politics with money or violence, and anybody that seems extremely radical is made unwelcome very quickly.

I think by and large there has been an awakening among voters. I think the TV is not influencing their decision making as much as it used to, and I think the trend is growing. I have seen politicians standing on street corners waving and getting heckled by people in traffic. Just 2 years ago people would honk and wave, but now they shout "get a job" and "aren't you supposed to be at work instead of waving at traffic." The climate this year is entirely different than it was in 2008.

My town is known for two things. FSU Football and Florida Politics. When the Bush/Gore debacle was going on, and reporters and lobbyists had flooded our city, and their wasn't a hotel room for 50 miles, the reporters and politicians lost their rooms to the football fans one weekend. This town knows politics intimately, and if this town is ignoring national press and starting to trust the Tea Party, then I believe the rest of the country is waking up as well!

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


As GetReadyAlready pointed out, there is no single or central Tea Party. The whole point of the movement is for all views to finally be heard and the final decision that is best for the country to be enacted. We have had 2 party politics for far too long, and when we have a 3rd party emerge it usually just kills the candidate closest to their views. The Tea Party is unique in that it has people from ALL walks of life, ALL views, and ALL of the major political parties. This party has candidates that are not running as "Tea Party" candidates, but as Republicans, Democrats, and Independents, with views that are shared by the majority of the Tea Partiers.

The MSM is of HUGE consequence in that they are putting Sarah Palin in the news all the darn time and she is a fruitcake. The MSM is attacking the Tea Party by reporting on all the fringe Tea Party members instead of the moderate ones. This makes good news but does not make for a good effect on our leadership.

With that said, however, since the Tea Party is so fractured and its opinion is so diverse, I believe the MSM is mostly ineffective at this point in hurting the Tea Party since most local chapters already have their membership and those members know what the party is about.

The only people the MSM will keep out of the parties are those that are mostly still asleep and those are a pretty large minority. We like to say that the Tea Party movement has no chance of survival since it only has something like 20 million voters. Well, those 20 million voters actually attend the polling places and vote in the elections. That is a huge percentage of the 54% of registered voters that actually vote. BTW there are 131.3 million voters that turned out in 2008. That is far more than e nough to sway an election and we must remember that only counts the estimates presented by the MSM. In the communities I am aware of, with the exception of my foreign friends, I have not met anyone who doesn't at least somewhat agree with the Tea Party.

Sack the Incumbent is the major sentiment, the Tea Party has major power, and it is already powerful so the MSM will have a very hard time, as we can already see, making the party seem like a bunch of psychos. The MSM will seem crazy since the majority of the country agrees with the Tea Party movement.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

I think the conspiracy in regard to the tea party "movement" is that these people have been generally fooled into believing that there is such a thing as "grassroots politics" any more.
....

campaign funding for challengers must originate from sources within their regional constituencies. A simple idea that changes everything.

Yes, "grassroots politics" versus "grassroots pressure groups" to put pressure on the incumbents. Afterall, the Boston Tea Party was quite an effective pressure group, not a political group.

For decades now, being elected to an office, especially a national office, has gone from being one of service to the public (a public servant) to being a public office as the means to a lucrative future once out of office.

Nowadays, the incumbent, who won using corporate funding, goes on to sponsor bills favoring corporate donors, then leaves office after a set amount of time, cashing in on all his/her contacts, whether it be as a lobbyist, attorney, board member, consultant, etc. (Term limits might give a higher rate of this turn over to cashing in. Unintended consequences.)

A truly grassroots (not astroturf) TP pressure group would put pressure on incumbent politicians rather than running their own candidates. There would be rallies over specific issues, not rallies with political appearances or organized by ex-politician lobbyists.
...

And, yes, I know Calif sure has had its share of money from out of state flowing in to affect politics over the years.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

I see "skeptic" overlord is fitting. (BTW, why did you put electorate in quotation marks, it means "body of qualified voters" which is what campaign money targets.)

The T.E.A. Party IS grass-roots. Period. Yes, there is the Tea Party Express and our media happily announced that the original movement is dead.
Wrong.
This is a real shift in the "electorate" that is GREATLY influencing politics. If not for the T.E.A. Party, we wouldn't have this massive house cleaning coming in November!

All efforts to reform politics and reduce the size of government ARE T.E.A. Party efforts! That is the beauty!

We have over two hours of video, and are going through everything now. Our plan is to provide complete videos of each presenter (silly yuk-yuk banter/comments removed, just the meat), as well as the disappointing few interviews we were able to get.

There were three other camera crews there, and we came early to get a prime spot. Once we were set up, it was difficult to step away to interview the incoming people, and it wrapped up late and most people rushed to leave.

However, I did get one good question in from our members, and the result is hilarious -- silence... crickets... four politicians all showing reluctance to take on a hard but very relevant question.


Unfortunately, we did experience some overt racism. And some "did he just say that?" moments from the speakers. We're working to get the video from two cameras and audio from four recording devices synchronized and converted to our media portal as quickly as possible.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Thanks Bill!

I can't wait to watch the videos, and I'm sorry there was overt racism. That is a shame, and a definite detraction from the movement.

After I watch the videos, if things seem significantly different than the Florida Tea Party, then I will be pushing you to come get a better look at a better Tea Party!

Looks like I was a few days late on this. Oh well.

[edit on 7/19/2010 by whatukno]

Ask them why they weren’t so interested in the budget when Bush was in office carrying out an illegal and immoral war that killed millions of people.

Where is your morality?

Does it only deal with how much taxes you pay?

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


This sounds great. I look forward to seeing the video.

Good move by ATS to get in there and get what info they could.

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

The T.E.A. Party is about awareness of the issues that are important, the ones not covered by the MSM. Of course the entrenched Republican establishment will try to steal their energy, but people don't have to let them.
The T.E.A. Party does not have to enroll people to be effective, they don't have to have millions marching to be effective. They DO have to keep the important issues in the minds of the average American so that the established powers have to deal with those important issues. Constant vigilance.
When money no longer buys elections, at least ONE of the objectives of the T.E.A. Party has been accomplished. There is no need for campaign finance reform if money loses its effectiveness in swaying the electorate, and there are signs that that is happening to some extent. Discussions like this are key, and trust me, the entrenched powers are taking note.
Come November, let's just hope many of them are jobless. That would be a good start.

Edit: clean up.


[edit on 15-7-2010 by Stewie]

I agree with your statement on the true TEA Party. I have attended and even did security for some tea parties in my area. I first thought it was only republicans, but found out it even has democrats and independents. I almost had a chance to meet Ron Paul...

[video is being refined, look here for an update soon]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Looks good! Anticipating the rest of the story.