It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Ask An Atheist Anything

page: 46
25
<< 43  44  45    47  48  49 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 05:46 PM
link   
reply to post by The Endtime Warrior
 


Yeah, but the law I put forth is do what you want EXCEPT when it prevents others from doing so. Murder would be against that, so it wouldn't be the pure survival of the fittest that you imply. It would be upon us to uphold those morals, not some dude's promise from long ago that if you do what he says you get eternal bliss. It is not like god based have kept people from boing 'evil' anyway. People can make morals and do good foe good's sake. It is those who do good for god's sake that scare me.




posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 06:11 PM
link   
reply to post by C09JayLT
 


Funny I didn't even mention god and you jumped to that right away. Ok so I got ya, basically everyone needs to think the way you do, and then everyone gets along, correct?



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 08:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by ChickenPie
Why should you care about humanity?


Why shouldn't I? Atheism is not nihilism


So, basically you have no reason? You're just good for the sake of being good?

Then somebody could just as easily be bad for the sake of being bad. I'm glad we understand each other.


Why would I not want to?


Why would I know the reason why you concede to the moral standards of whatever culture you hail from? I don't know, which is why I asked you. Or are you telling me that you have no particular reason?

[edit on 29-7-2010 by ChickenPie]



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 08:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by C09JayLT
reply to post by ChickenPie
 


1. Why don't I want anyone to keep me from doing whatever I want, provided that I don't keep someone from doing what they want? ..... um, because I want do as I please.... I don't know about you, but I like being free to choose my own actions...


Yes, we've already went over this.

I was wondering why you presumed that others share in your sentiments. It's very convenient to do so, wouldn't you say?


2. It is good because it makes me feel good and happy...


Why do you categorize feeling good and happy as good and not bad?


and I don't care what makes others happy so long as they follow rule 1. I accept anyones actions so long as they don't force it upon another.


Why should they follow rule 1?



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 08:43 PM
link   
reply to post by The Endtime Warrior
 


Hey, I was just making a comparison between my ideas and others to better explain them. And yes, it would need others to participate for my ideas to work for everyone, but he asked for MY morality, not my idea of how to make an atheistic, moral society. I don't think you could make such a thing.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 08:56 PM
link   
reply to post by ChickenPie
 


I don't know why others would play along, but you asked for the source of my morality, not how I would make a moral society based upon atheism. I have no clue how to do that.

I find it good to feel good, I thank many would agree. Now, I can't prove that I am doing right by some sort of giant cosmic scale, but I don't really know such a thing exists.

I don't know, like I said, I provided my morality, not a universal societal one.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 08:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by ChickenPie

So, basically you have no reason? You're just good for the sake of being good?

Then somebody could just as easily be bad for the sake of being bad. I'm glad we understand each other.


It benefits both myself and others mutually to behave ethically and morally. This should be self-evident.


Why would I know the reason why you concede to the moral standards of whatever culture you hail from? I don't know, which is why I asked you. Or are you telling me that you have no particular reason?


See my above response. The benefits of ethical behavior should be self-evident.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:25 AM
link   
I find the rant that one must have an outside source to have morals & integrity - - very disturbing.

Is there some kind of problem with personal responsibility?



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by Annee
I find the rant that one must have an outside source to have morals & integrity - - very disturbing.


It's not my rant, so I may be misstating the original, but the point of this sort of argument is not whether you have morals and integrity, but where did they come from, how is it determined what "right" and "wrong" are, and how do we evaluate that?

In World War II, the Germans and British each fought, believing that they were "right". Well, they both can't be right, and if we want to move away from "might makes right" and the dismissal that the winner is always right, we need to look at what "right" really is, and where our sense of it comes from.

There are obvious societal "rights and wrongs", but that doesn't solve the problem, either, because different societies obviously come up with their own collections what is right and wrong, and it doesn't prevent members of that society feeling that "something just isn't right here."

Smarter people than I have worked through it all, so I'll end my input there. Since I have a belief in a moral authority beyond my own self, my view is obviously coloured by that.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:38 AM
link   
Approximately how many hours practice does it take to become:

- A good enough drummer for a typical average live band
- As good as someone like Roger Taylor



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:42 AM
link   

Originally posted by LightFantastic
Approximately how many hours practice does it take to become:

- A good enough drummer for a typical average live band


One summer of daily, devoted practice.


- As good as someone like Roger Taylor


It depends on if you mean the one from Queen or the one from Duran Duran.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by adjensen
Since I have a belief in a moral authority beyond my own self, my view is obviously coloured by that.


This is what I find a prevalent belief. Not so much that morals are derived from religion but that there is an ultimate authority somewhere that judges and metes out justice for our actions. (Although tons of people DO believe morals come from religion - a horrifying thought).

Once this belief is ingrained, it becomes a threatening thought that humans actually decide for themselves which behaviors are moral and ethical because, in short, it strips an amount of power from their deity of choice and dethrones the deity as a moral judge.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:50 AM
link   
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


So about 400 to 600 hours would you say for average. Damn it looks easy.

Queen, I cant remember how good the other one was


[edit on 30/7/2010 by LightFantastic]



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by LightFantastic

So about 400 to 600 hours would you say for average. Damn it looks easy.

Queen, I cant remember how good the other one was



I don't believe there is a set average. I believe it depends on your devotion and natural prowess.

Cover bands, contrary to popular belief, are not exactly easy. Not only must you know a wide array of material but you have to switch styles on a dime and accommodate a wide variety of drum, bass or guitar sounds. Very difficult with limited or basic equipment.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 10:15 AM
link   

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by adjensen
Since I have a belief in a moral authority beyond my own self, my view is obviously coloured by that.

Once this belief is ingrained, it becomes a threatening thought that humans actually decide for themselves which behaviors are moral and ethical because, in short, it strips an amount of power from their deity of choice and dethrones the deity as a moral judge.


I don't really see it as being threatening. I think that I can manage sorting out right from wrong, but I recognize that it's "my right and wrong", which may be largely different than yours. Trying to apply a societal right and wrong to you may or may not be an appropriate application.

In the end, it's just a heck of a lot easier to say "love everyone else as yourself" and be done with it. When I deal with difficult people or situations, that is a lot easier to say than it is to do, but I still muddle through.

For purposes of my statement, "a moral authority beyond myself" can be applied to king, country, society or God, it doesn't really make that great of a difference, except that I find God to be a lot more consistent if we stick with that singular admonition.

On another subject, I never really thought much of Roger Taylor, but how long would it take to reach the skill level of Neil Peart? Is that even possible? Or is he all technical, so even a talentless nobody like me could sort it out, given enough time?



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 10:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by adjensen

In the end, it's just a heck of a lot easier to say "love everyone else as yourself" and be done with it.


The "Golden Rule" can be dangerous when we live in a world of manic depressives and S&M enthusiasts.



On another subject, I never really thought much of Roger Taylor, but how long would it take to reach the skill level of Neil Peart? Is that even possible? Or is he all technical, so even a talentless nobody like me could sort it out, given enough time?


I still think it depends on your devotion, time applied and natural prowess. Peart, like other drummers, have a series of tricks and formulas he commonly redeploys. Once you learn the tricks and make them part of your musical vocabulary you can breeze through Rush albums fairly easily.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 10:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Annee
I find the rant that one must have an outside source to have morals & integrity - - very disturbing.


It's not my rant, so I may be misstating the original, but the point of this sort of argument is not whether you have morals and integrity, but where did they come from, how is it determined what "right" and "wrong" are, and how do we evaluate that?


Why do they have to come from an outside source? That's a ridiculous cop out - - not to mention lazy.

I realize there are a lot of sheep in this world - - but there is also a lot of independent thinkers. Integrity and Ethics is self serving.

Animals in the wild have very sophisticated social structures. Probably more so then man.

Its a matter of living in groups. When man civilized into communities - - it was necessary by logic to have rules and learn to respect each other.

Man because of man. Not because of some invisible guy in the sky.

Personal responsibility.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 10:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by adjensen


In World War II, the Germans and British each fought, believing that they were "right". Well, they both can't be right, and if we want to move away from "might makes right" and the dismissal that the winner is always right, we need to look at what "right" really is, and where our sense of it comes from.



War is about Power and Control. It has nothing to do with "right" and "wrong".

We are animals. I realize many get upset and can't accept that we are animals - - but we are.

War is no different then two rams butting heads for power. It has nothing to do with the complex ethical social structure - - - other then making sure the most powerful is in charge.

And who are those making the most noise in support of Bush and his war? The Christian Right. Go figure.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 11:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by adjensen

In the end, it's just a heck of a lot easier to say "love everyone else as yourself" and be done with it.


The "Golden Rule" can be dangerous when we live in a world of manic depressives and S&M enthusiasts.



Unless one is not either of those. But I get the joke anyway :-)




On another subject, I never really thought much of Roger Taylor, but how long would it take to reach the skill level of Neil Peart? Is that even possible? Or is he all technical, so even a talentless nobody like me could sort it out, given enough time?


I still think it depends on your devotion, time applied and natural prowess. Peart, like other drummers, have a series of tricks and formulas he commonly redeploys. Once you learn the tricks and make them part of your musical vocabulary you can breeze through Rush albums fairly easily.


I knew a guy who worked at some venue in Pennsylvania and did a lot of the load-in and out for the drummers (I think he was a drummer, probably why they gave him the job) and he said that Peart and Bill Bruford had the most amazing drumheads that he's seen, because the heads had the tiniest wear marks -- well worn, but amazingly precise.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 11:20 AM
link   

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Annee
I find the rant that one must have an outside source to have morals & integrity - - very disturbing.


It's not my rant, so I may be misstating the original, but the point of this sort of argument is not whether you have morals and integrity, but where did they come from, how is it determined what "right" and "wrong" are, and how do we evaluate that?


Why do they have to come from an outside source? That's a ridiculous cop out - - not to mention lazy.


Unless you believe that it's purely instinctual to be altruistic and good to others, or you've some sort of "moral gene", they have to come from an outside source. Whether it's parents, society, king, country or church, your morals and your definition of right and wrong came from someplace.

I don't see that as being "lazy" or abrogating responsibility, just a rational determination that, as animals, we tend toward being fairly self-centred, and a moral code that calls on us to act contrary to that is obviously learned behaviour.

As for the other post about war, you kind of missed the point -- it's not about what the "powers that be" might be on about, but rather what the people who support them and go to fight have been sold.

I do not view the "Christian Right" in the United States as being particularly Christian, nor particularly "right" (in the sense used above, lol.) God is neither Republican or Democrat, and if I was him, I'd be a little torqued off with any politician claiming he represented me.



new topics

top topics



 
25
<< 43  44  45    47  48  49 >>

log in

join