Nick berg and paul johnson. Thoughts?

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posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 04:06 AM
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I saw the story about lockheed Martin employee Paul Johnson on BBC news this morning and something instantly struck me about it. I was thinking about how it looked in comparison to the Nick Berg video.

Now I don't have much media to compare them, there arn't that many images of the Paul Johnson video on the net, but just looking at these two stills for example. For ease of writing: P* video = Paul johnson video
N* video.....you get it.
I have only done a brief analysis covering my instant thoughts on this, also all of the detail of the Nick Berg video is covered here already brilliantly. But I hope this thread can continue discussion on this as the Paul Johnson story unfolds.









For a start there is a closer shot throughout the shots I have seen in the P video, this struck me as difference because if you look at this N video still there is a different feel, it looks far more composed, the terrorists lined up behind nick berg who is sitting in front of them. In the P* video Mr. johnson is crudely blindfolded and seems in more distress than Berg, who when giving his details appears very calm.

"I'm an American out of the United States. ... I work on a Apache helicopter," he said, stumbling over some of the words.

He was blindfolded with a white cloth secured with tape. There also appeared to be a bandage around his neck.
"

www.cnn.com...

As this report said, there is also a bandage round his neck which means he could have already been harmed. Berg is dressed in a traditional orange robe (which many thought was a jumpsuit) and Johnson appears to be in a shirt, also orange in colour I believe. This adds to natural feeling of the P* video I suppose.


Anyway, as you can see in the Berg video still, the terrorists are all dressed in black, lined up and organised. In the P video it appears that the terorists are not in any uniform as such (you can see a piece of striped clothing I think) However in a different section of the video a masked terrorist all in black does appear to make demands and such. Please correct me if I am wrong about this clothing issue.

The reason I am making these comparisons is becuase, as all here at ATS must know, there are many problems with the Berg video that still havn't really been concluded. The media has now forgotten about the whole thing of course and wont touch any of it. When I first saw the Berg video I was of course disgusted, yet to my own surpise, not that shocked. It honestly seemed very unreal to me on some level and this made me not as shocked as I thought I would be.

"For a number of reasons, it does not appear that the Jordanian terrorist Abu Masab Al-Zaraqawi, who was voice identified by the CIA (and whose name was on the tape), was involved. He has a poorly functioning prosthetic leg and a hand tattoo, which should have been observed. Neither were. The accent of the speaker in the video was not Jordanian. Why has the CIA seemingly lied about the analysis of Al-Zarqawi's voice and his role in the killing?"

The U.S detained Nick Berg for weeks with no due process, and let him out during a period of escalating hostilities and violent conflict

My thoughts have been with the Berg family, such a horrific event would be emotionaly shattering and I commend their resolve to investiagte and to speak against the government. They have been less than helpful. I hope that Paul Johnson does not meet a similar end, but I don't know how this will be resolved.
www.nickberg.org
www.cnn.com...



[edit: extra picture on 6/16/2004 by earthtone]

[edit on 6/17/2004 by earthtone]




posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 07:48 AM
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good informative post..
but i think that alternative explanations to the nick berg story are a bit incredible... maybe thats because we don't want to believe it. when you look at images, videos anything there will always be things that make you think this doesnt look right but that doesnt mean it isnt. if that makes sense. i feel a lot for nick bergs family but i think it was a result of the terrorists and not another cause... what do you think actually happened?
it could be possible that he was drugged or anaethetised (spelling!!?)



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 07:50 AM
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my gut feeling on these kidnappings..... the Berg tape, sad to say "job" done by terrorists of "questionable" origins but not Al-Qaeda or Al-Zaqwiri.
There are too many oddities in Berg's video to not warrant more major media coverage, but of course the real media will never address those issues.


The Johnson tape definitely has the look and feel of an Al-Qaeda operation. The video has a somewhat more of a professional quality, similar to previously released Al-Qaeda videos. The speaker Abdel Aziz al-Muqrin is very animated, speaking with conviction and clearly who he says he is.

it looks like policy not to deal with terrorists will get Johnson killed...I wonder if the Suadi's operate under the same premise not to negotiate?



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by happyk

it could be possible that he was drugged or anaethetised (spelling!!?)


That has been covered, here at ATS on ATSNN too, I am not sure if any definate conclusions have been made on this, wouldn't this come up on an autopsy? Has there been one?



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher

it looks like policy not to deal with terrorists will get Johnson killed...I wonder if the Suadi's operate under the same premise not to negotiate?


I really doubt that the Saudi's would deal with these terroristsm especially seeing as he is American. The U.S wont budge, so what can be done? It's a horrble scenario.



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 05:03 PM
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Apparently this has been forgotten by many here. Does nobody feel unsatisfied with the Nick Berg tape and how the government have dealt with it? I just pity the Berg family because they may never have peace.



posted on Jun, 16 2004 @ 05:10 PM
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All the evidence in the Berg killing points to us and not anyone else. This new case is clearly a case of him being captured by rebel fighters (terrorists).



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 08:00 AM
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This new case does make the Berg video look unreal doesn't it indy? It struck me straight away. However there is not enough proof to draw any conclusions yet. But if it wasn't terrorists then who was it? Who apart from the u.S government would have anything to gain from this ? Any ideas?



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 10:22 AM
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There are two basic similarities between the Berg and Johnson videos. In each case Reverse Speech on the the "terrorist" who reads the demands proves conclusively that each is a native English speaker. This conclusion is drawn from slowing down and reversing their speech, to listen to unconscious thoughts vocalized via the right brain hemisphere.

Both men are under stress, which makes them unconcious chatterboxes.

While the Berg murder was apparently performed by a bungling military intelligence unit, the Johnson video and also the Jacobs killing reflect a much more sophisticated group, presumably CIA or Mossad.

The Berg video had a secondary purpose of establishing the existence of the new false-flag boogeyman, Al Zarkawi, who could immediately be blamed for anything, including any more acts that might be planned to whip up anger back home.

The Johnson and Jacobs videos, appear to have the purpose of building up the picture of Al Quaida running loose in Saudi Arabia. If there is a CIA/Mossad mission to destabilize Saudi, or provide an excuse for military action there, then this would certainly be their work. Since these videos are forgeries, ie. not made by Al Quaida, then one must assume that any new video (or old one!) with the same logos, titling, and general production values is also not Al Quaida.

Rather makes one wonder just how much of Al Quaida is real, and how much is completely imaginary, doesn't it!

My summary of the reverse speech on the Jacobs killing is at this TA-Analysis Thread



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by earthtone
That has been covered, here at ATS on ATSNN too, I am not sure if any definate conclusions have been made on this, wouldn't this come up on an autopsy? Has there been one?


To the best of my knowledge one was not performed. Remember they found his body, before the Video was released. They probably just treated it as Collateral Damage wich I think wouldn't require an autopsy.



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by earthtone
Any ideas?


Propaganda. Since the Berg video, 2 New ones have come out.
TA-ANALYSIS:Suspicions over new Al-Qaeda execution video is fake

and
TA-THREATS: Group Threatens to Execute American Hostage Paul Johnson

The First one looks like it is from the same person/people that did the "Countdown" Video.

The Second looks at the attempt of a copy of the Berg Video. Hopefully this does not end up the same way.

These do not appear to be From "Actual" Al-Qaeda Members. IMO
Their MO, IMO, does not seem to ask Ransoms, nor do they come out in the open to do, or proclaim something like this Before it happens. They Lie and Wait (Thus Sleepers) then pounce.

I'm starting to see this as a College Initiation of sorts. We have groups popping up that claim to be with, or represent Al-Qaeda. They are commiting these acts in a way as to get recognition, respect and thus turn from pledge to member. Were IS OBL during all of this...Hmmmm.



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 04:45 AM
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Thank you for the information TrickMaster. It's outrageous that therte hasn't been an autopsy or any public presentation of official information regarding the Berg case, and it just makes the whole thing more suspicious. Maybe, as you said, he was treated as 'collatoral damage'.

These people do not appear to be Al-Qaeda, I suppose there are no disgtinguishing aspects of Al-qaeda uniform or anything that could be used to tell. There arn't enoug hfacts, and I can't believe the government.



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 07:58 AM
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The Nick Berg killing/video was a poorly done psy op. Notice, once questions began to fly, the media backed off and, like you said Earth, it was quickly dropped into the memory hole.

What is going on in Saudi Arabia is alarming. Who is behind it? Probably the same fools that were behind the Berg incident. Why? To shake up the monarchy so that our troops have to go into Saudi Arabia to protect the refineries. It is a wicked situation.

Unfortunately, Mr. Johnson will probably meet his end today. The Saudis say they won't negotiate and the Bush administration needs all the sympathy it can get. Bush will look tough declaring 'we'll get those terrists and bring 'em to justice' and the sheep will totally swallow it.



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 08:07 AM
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I know ECK, the situation in the middle east is slowly going to worse, America are already there, and may go to 'control situations' all over the place. I honestly think that this could tie in with the energy situation, they are starting look to the future as there is a mad grab for the worlds remaining oil supplies.

These kidnappings sure all come at the right times, and with all the evidence of conspiracy I have read regarding the berg and jacobs case make it so highly questionable. And whenever you look who stands to gain....



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 11:22 AM
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I am very afraid that over the weekend we will see a new video, similar to the Berg video, confirming the death of Mr. Johnson.

Regardless of who the perpetrators are, it is quite obvious that this man will be killed, and more then likely, beheaded for the cameras.



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by earthtone
I know ECK, the situation in the middle east is slowly going to worse, America are already there, and may go to 'control situations' all over the place. I honestly think that this could tie in with the energy situation, they are starting look to the future as there is a mad grab for the worlds remaining oil supplies.

Yes, it is a mad dash. Gotta beat China to the punch. In the coming years, their consumption will rival ours. It is growing faster than anyone foresaw. (I've always said China will become our biggest threat.) The reserves, I believe, have already peaked. Gotta keep OPEC in line and we gotta own those Arabian/Mesopotamian spiggots. It's the West's big faustian bargain and catch 22.

These kidnappings sure all come at the right times, and with all the evidence of conspiracy I have read regarding the berg and jacobs case make it so highly questionable. And whenever you look who stands to gain....

Yes! Qui Bono? Who, indeed...

The Berg thing was a complete distraction to divert attention away from the rising cacophony of outrage over the Abu Ghraib Prison Abuse Scandal. Whoever filmed it was a complete idiot.



[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 02:01 PM
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There is no excuse for them killing my people the motherF**** (islamic extremist) need to be killed or just drop a nuke on them and make a parking lot and I would be glad to do it.



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 02:18 PM
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Please say you don't think the United States is responsible for this barbarism. Please. I just saw those pictures. Whoever is doing this stuff is a heinous monster. If this country is in any way shape or form involved, don't they know they will be found out? It WILL happen. If its those people over there, they aren't going to stop until they come over here and kill a bunch of people. And if this is OUR government doing this stuff...God help us all but its too late. These beheadings are just reeking of evil. I mean you can feel the evil behind them....its dreadful. I can't even ABIDE living here if we are involved in this.



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
There is no excuse for them killing my people the motherF**** (islamic extremist) need to be killed or just drop a nuke on them and make a parking lot and I would be glad to do it.


Just make sure it's aimed at the right target.



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
There is no excuse for them killing my people the motherF**** (islamic extremist) need to be killed or just drop a nuke on them and make a parking lot and I would be glad to do it.


Bravo! You're no better than "they" are.


Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill!

Read this - I dare you:



Iraq, 1917
By Robert Fisk
Independent U.K.

Thursday 17 June 2004

They came as liberators but were met by fierce resistance outside Baghdad. Humiliating treatment of prisoners and heavy-handed action in Najaf and Fallujah further alienated the local population. A planned handover of power proved unworkable. Britain's 1917 occupation of Iraq holds uncanny parallels with today - and if we want to know what will happen there next, we need only turn to our history books...
On the eve of our "handover" of "full sovereignty" to Iraq, this is a story of tragedy and folly and of dark foreboding. It is about the past-made-present, and our ability to copy blindly and to the very letter the lies and follies of our ancestors. It is about that admonition of antiquity: that if we don't learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it. For Iraq 1917, read Iraq 2003. For Iraq 1920, read Iraq 2004 or 2005.
www.truthout.org...





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