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Why socialism Doesnt Work

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posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 08:31 AM
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This is how the story actually went.......

An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a single student before but had, once, failed an entire class.

That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said okay, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism. All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade, so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.

After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B.. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.

But, as the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too; so they studied little. The second test average was a D!

No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around the average was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great;

But when government takes all the reward away; no one will try or want to succeed.



www.sdcitizens.com...




posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


Now Snopes did a check on it and found it to be a Legend.

www.snopes.com...


Now I know its stupid to write this even though a guy wrote this www.abovetopsecret.com...

All he did was take out socialism and place it with capitalism.

I think Socialism is lazyism, people want something for nothing. My generation does not want to work hard for it. Put it was started by the Hippies, who are now our teachers and government leaders. If Socialism is so Great why have Nations like Greece began to cut their benefits? Great Britain, Portugal, Italy, Spain maybe next... Now I am not saying that we shouldn't not help our neighbors who are in need of our help. But the Federal Government is to corrupt to do anything right. anything the feds have ever done has been turned into a nightmare and almost broke, Prove me wrong, show me one of the socialist programs we have in the US that are not messed up? Show ME ONE? Can you?

Now there was a neighbor who use to live down the street from us... Both he and his wife lost their jobs around Christmas, he was a proud man and did not hold his hand out to the government asking for help. We as a community pitched in and helped purchase some food and gifts for them before Christmas...We helped him in his time of need, not the Feds...

I know our system is broke, but we cannot replace it with an already broken system that has failed (socialism) you don't change one burnt out light bulb with another burnt out light bulb do you? Why would you do the same for Socialism?



posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 09:02 AM
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Congrats on turning me from a long time lurker into a member. I saw the post regarding socialism and my brain nearly melted. I couldn't believe that the OP from the other post actually believed that was capitalism. I was even further blown away to find people agreeing that capitalism failed it what was clearly a socialistic example.

Thank you for doing the research and further proving the blatant misuse of the story. S&F!



posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 09:09 AM
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Benefits and social services budgets are already being cut here in the UK, but not because they don't work, but because they are way over budget and being run inefficiently. For example, in the NHS, there are actually more administrators than there are hospital beds!

They are all currently being shaken up and the money is being redistributed to the areas it should go. Only time will tell if this works IMO.

I wouldn't say that socialism doesn't work. It's worked fine over here for at least 40 years and has only failed over the past decade because of the last government's wasteful spending on ineffective schemes and overpaid pen pushers. I read that the new gov has managed to slash about £20 billion per year from social services so far and still has a lot left to do.

I would agree that it does lead to a society of lazy people, who just want a free ride, but again, plans are in effect here to try to tackle that.



posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 09:21 AM
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The humorous thing about that example is that most of the students would not be in the class if it wasn't for socialized education. In a pure capitalist society, only those with the means to attend school without working full time would be in the class.

The majority not even being able to attend primary schools due to the cost except for those few fortunate ones where charitable organizations gave away free education.



posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by nik1halo
 


I hope it does work for you guys, could it work for America? Well no since the New Deal plan, there has been nothing but waste and spending. There are no checks in place to make sure it isn’t being abused... Take this for example, Now I know this to be a fact because I know the person. She has four kids, gets government assistance four housing, food stamps, and cash allowance. She has a live in boyfriend, who BTW is not allowed to live there do to the terms of her housing voucher from the Government. 3 of her kids have ADHD, and the reason it isn’t all four of them is because one is only 6 months old even though she tried. For her three kids all under the age of 5 she get SSI payments for them have a disability.
She admitted that she did that so she could collect more "Free Money" from the government.

Now how did she learn this? Well from her Mom who did the same thing, and all of her sisters do it as well. She has no drive to do anything except mooch off the Taxpayers. I called the Government in on her and they did nothing about it. They said we get hundreds of calls a day from people reporting Welfare abusers and cant track them all down.... Do you see ? Socialism in America makes people lazy when they don’t have to work and get paid to have kids and sit on their asses all day every day? That’s what American Socialism is.

Now I know there are people on it who hate the fact that they are on it and our trying to get out of it.. I have nothing but respect for them and wish them the best... But to you Welfare Warriors, you are the reason why Socialism in America doesn’t work nor will it work, Abusing the system so you can keep your lazy arse at home...

Our nation was once proud we produced everything now we produce a new generation of welfare warriors.



posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by Kaploink
 


States and Local governments pay for Grade School and High School. Not the Federal Government. State Colleges and universities are funded by the state, alumni, and Tuition from college students who get them from student loans, parents, or working to go to college.



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 03:02 PM
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This post may seem off topic at first but it's not. A lot of authors see events taking place in the world around them and include them in their books. I was reading a series a few years ago called Sword of Truth written by Terry Goodkind. In later novels of the series, the antagonists are a group called the Imperial Order. Their values are very much like socialism. Their society is falling apart, nobody works harder than they have to because they know that they'll all get paid the same, regardless of how much they produce. If another worker is in need of help, they are out of luck because the feeling is that if you help somebody else out, you'll be cheating them of their work and money. Also, if a worker is unable to work for any reason, money is taken from everyone else and given to him. In short, individual achievement is unheard of and citizens expect a free ride. Thanks for the interesting thread S&F.



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 03:08 PM
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This thread again?

Here is my rebuttal everytime this thread comes up:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by ExPostFacto
This thread again?

Here is my rebuttal everytime this thread comes up:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I think your rebuttal stinks. It has nothing to do with capitalism. But never fear, I may have one example that's a little closer to home than "grades"...


Taxes, economics and Socialism described in beer…

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer, and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1. The sixth would pay $3. The seventh would pay $7. The eighth would pay $12. The ninth would pay $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. ‘Since you are all such good customers,’ he said, ‘I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. ‘Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so thefirst four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But whatabout the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the$20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’ They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each endup being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings). The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25%savings). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 ( 22% savings). The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But... once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. ‘I only got a dollar out of the $20,’declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,’ but he got $10!', "Yeah, that’s right" exclaimed the fifth man. ‘I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than me! ”That’s true!!’ shouted the seventh man. ‘Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks! ”Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!‘ The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.


*David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D., Professor of Economics University of Georgia -



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by ExPostFacto
 


The problem is that your rebuttal isn't capitalism.

Your example presumes that capitalism only allows a certain number of people to succeed.

Accurately modeling capitalism in the context of a grade book is not all that easy, but a more accurate comparison would be to allow anyone to take the test. A passing grade is considered the minimum necessary for sustenance (all of your expenses). Everything scored above a passing grade is profit. Students would then be free to exchange these 'profit points' amongst each other for goods/services provided by each other.

That would be capitalism, the only 'moderator' is your cost of operation and the supply and demand of the market. Success is determined by whether or not you can cover your expenses - everything else is surplus to be saved or exchanged.



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


socialism is indeed an epic fail

they want everything for nothing

they want everything in the world but wait what the masses think about socialism is they wont have to work anymore and they will get everything for free

and yet if noone is working noone is producing noone taking the risk to make a better life for himself or herself what you get is stagnation of progress.

the world we live in was made by those people who saw a need had a desire to get rich and provided a product or service that people would need and thought he can make a buck or two off it or alot of them..

thats capitalism in its most basic form socialism just takes whats already in place and just sits there- theres no innovation theres no competition that drives new products and services into existence and theres no competition that lowers those prices of products of goods and services.

socialism does nothing but destroy-destroy wealth and breeds laziness like you said capitalism creates wealth and that wealth in turn creates more wealth and so on and so forth.

caviat-real capitalism is free market and free trade- the absence of government intervention the only problem with capitalism of today is the government cant get out of it.

capitalism is darwinism at its finest the strong eat the weak there is success and failure and risk and reward
attributes that socialism doesnt not have.

addeum- socialism fails because of sooner or later you run out of other peoples money is the defining truth of this entire post... when you destroy wealth you are destroying wealth and when you destroy wealth that means no more money to steal from people.

meh im tired of people thinking socialism is just so great is not never has been the inherent evil of men are the reasons it will always fail..........power....absolute power.......absolute power corrupts.....and thus the small group of people in the government has the power of god what they decide for the greater good means they are screwing someone over and the majority over.

edit on 21-10-2010 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 04:15 PM
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"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

-Winston Churchill



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by nik1halo
Benefits and social services budgets are already being cut here in the UK, but not because they don't work, but because they are way over budget and being run inefficiently.


I heard somewhere that there was a study (i think it may have been in New york about the efficiency of the welfare system. End result for every dollar recieved by a person on welfare nine dollars are eaten up by the burocracy getting that one dollar to them.



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by ..5..
 


I don't think this is the one you are talking about - but it is fairly exhaustive and deals with consolidating into large government versus subdividing into smaller governments.

www.nytowns.org...



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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Whether its socialism or capitalism, doesn't matter there is always going to be poor and rich and general "unfairness".

Why? because we as humanity are immature, greedy, power hungry, and don't give a crap about anyone else but their own wallet and well being.

Don't believe me? look around you.
look at your boss/ceo. Does he make too much money? hell yes he does

here is a video to piss you guys off



www.youtube.com...
edit on 21-10-2010 by tempesillest because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by tempesillest
 



Whether its socialism or capitalism, doesn't matter there is always going to be poor and rich and general "unfairness".


Any natural system will generally reflect a Gaussian distribution. Thus, there will typically be a very large number of middle class, and equal numbers of lower and upper class.

It's a simplified model, but the principle holds.


Why? because we as humanity are immature, greedy, power hungry, and don't give a crap about anyone else but their own wallet and well being.


Generally speaking, it is considered impolite to ask someone else to give you something for nothing in return. If someone does not know you or have much of a relationship to you - then why should they grace you with money merely for your existence?


Don't believe me? look around you.
look at your boss/ceo. Does he make too much money? hell yes he does


How much is too much money? Who has the right to tell someone when they have made too much money?

If you would like, we could agree people like that make too much money and remove all incentive for anyone to pursue such selfish endeavors as starting a company that employs people and provides a necessary or desired function within society.



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by tempesillest
 


Who are you to determine how much money is "too much"?

Ever think people oppose idiotic ideas such as socialism because they rightly feel they should get to keep what they earn and not have it redistributed by an incompetent and criminally corrupt government?



posted on Oct, 22 2010 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by tempesillest
 



Whether its socialism or capitalism, doesn't matter there is always going to be poor and rich and general "unfairness".


Any natural system will generally reflect a Gaussian distribution. Thus, there will typically be a very large number of middle class, and equal numbers of lower and upper class.

It's a simplified model, but the principle holds.


Why? because we as humanity are immature, greedy, power hungry, and don't give a crap about anyone else but their own wallet and well being.


Generally speaking, it is considered impolite to ask someone else to give you something for nothing in return. If someone does not know you or have much of a relationship to you - then why should they grace you with money merely for your existence?


Don't believe me? look around you.
look at your boss/ceo. Does he make too much money? hell yes he does


How much is too much money? Who has the right to tell someone when they have made too much money?

If you would like, we could agree people like that make too much money and remove all incentive for anyone to pursue such selfish endeavors as starting a company that employs people and provides a necessary or desired function within society.


Where did I say people deserve something for nothing. What I am trying to get at is some people make ridiculous amounts of money for pretty much zero labor, while there employees work there ass off just to make ends meet. Where the economy hits and the CEO isn't making his regular 20 million but rather 15 million and decides to cut his employee's paychecks. I mean poor ceo he deserves that 3rd ferrari.

When is it too much money? when you can buy a island... when you get chauffeured around in a limo... when you have enough property to house a thousand+ people... etc etc etc



posted on Oct, 22 2010 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by BigTimeCheater
reply to post by tempesillest
 


Who are you to determine how much money is "too much"?

Ever think people oppose idiotic ideas such as socialism because they rightly feel they should get to keep what they earn and not have it redistributed by an incompetent and criminally corrupt government?


Well when 1% of the population hold the vast majority of the wealth I think that gets somewhere in the "too much" category.

I think people should get out what they put in

and our money is already redistributed by an incompetent and criminally corrupt government



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