Islam the LAST HOPE FOR PEACE!!!

Religion in and of itself doesn't necessarily make one a bad person. It is the actions that religion allows people to justify in their own heads that makes them divisive, and in many cases, deadly. Religion allows people to see themselves as above those who don't share their views. They see those with other religious views as inferior. It leaves no room for discussion because those who are religious have the mindset that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Until the day the world unities and realizes that they don't need their "gods" to make peace there will never be peace.

[edit on 14-7-2010 by Jakal26]

edit to say I was replying to what shadowangel85 said about people he knew not being bad people but I'm just starting to learn how to reply...lol...sorry

[edit on 14-7-2010 by Jakal26]

Originally posted by oozyism
1. Quran is a revelation, not a scientific book.

I have a few objections to your statement that Islam is the last hope for Peace.

First of all, you have to be more specific.

Mohammed was Elijah and John the Baptist 'raised from the dead' and the Doctrine of "resurrection" taught by Isaiah, Daniel and Jesus as well is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth' and similar to the Doctrine taught by the Buddha.

And, while it is True that, were this widely known, there would be a sharp reduction in conflict and violence and bloodshed between Jews, Christians and Muslims.

But that would not be sufficient.

What would also have to be understood is that there is a third dimension of consciousness beyond the consciousness of the "self" and the 'thinker', the understanding of the existence of which is also crucial to the establishing of Peace on this planet.

I discuss this on the thread "Resurrection" & 'Rebirth' on the Conspiracies in Religions Forum and on my web page at:

after-the-false-peace.blogspot.com...

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by oozyism

 

No Islam is a false religion perpetuated by men, with a book written by a man, who was high on opium in some cave. By a man who married a 9 year old girl... I have read the Koran, there is nothing in there that is really that important.

Did you know that Mohamed went to the Jews saying he was a prophet, only to be rejected? And then he with his army he slaughtered a lot of Jews in the cities of Mecca and medina?

You read it eh?

If you read it then you would know MUHAMMED DID NOT WRITE THE QURAN.

MUHAMMED COULDN'T READ OR WRITE.


How funny how everyone mentions that Muhammed married a nine year old girl but never mentioned WHY.

I will TELL you WHY.

It is because THE GIRLS FATHER ABU BAKR, WHO IS A CLOSE PERSONAL FRIEND OF MUHAMMED, PLEADED WITH HIM TO MARRY HER. AND AFTER 3 YEARS HE FINALLY GAVE IN. BUT TREATED HER WITH THE UTMOST RESPECT.

Would you mind telling us the time difference between MECCA rejecting him and ALSO NO MEDINA WAS NOT THE PLACE THAT REJECTED MUHAMMED?

reply to post by Gentill Abdulla


Didnt Mohammed supposedly ride to heaven on a majic carpet and then return with the quran?

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by oozyism

 

No Islam is a false religion perpetuated by men, with a book written by a man, who was high on opium in some cave. By a man who married a 9 year old girl... I have read the Koran, there is nothing in there that is really that important.

The "Night Journey" of Mohammed in the Koran is what Daniel and Jesus referred to as the Vision of the "Son of man".

Yes, this is important.

And, on the basis of the Revelations in the Koran and the statements of Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew, it is to be concluded that Mohammed was Elijah and John the Baptist 'raised from the dead'.

And, yes, this is important.

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by lestweforget
reply to post by Gentill Abdulla

 

Didnt Mohammed supposedly ride to heaven on a majic carpet and then return with the quran?

Not at all.

All of that is corruption of the metaphorical language describing the Vision of the "Son of man" (the "Night Journey") as I explain in more detail on my web page at:


after-the-false-peace.blogspot.com...

And as is further discussed on the thread "Resurrection" & 'Rebirth' in the Conspiracies in Religions Forum.

Michael Cecil

reply to post by Michael Cecil


What a load! Mohammed was not Elija at all, not even close. For Mohammed is the false prophet mentioned in the book of revelation and islams Mahdi will be the final antichrist, so who does that make Allah?
Thats right The great deceiver as mentioned in the quran SATAN!!!

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by Smiler74
fair enough

you teach this to the millions of nutters out there who are preaching and livining "extreme islam" and make them believe how you do and people will respect islam

until then islam will always come across as "violent" and "intolerant"

simples

[edit on 14/7/10 by Smiler74]

Muslims are defined by Islam, not the other way around, already made a thread about this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And do you mind if I use your post for future reference?

That my friend depends who is doing the defining.

If you don't want your religion defined by the actions of a significant part of the members that are murderous, bloodthirsty whackadoodles......

then maybe you need to clean up your house!

reply to post by oozyism


Far be it from me to debunk anyone religion. If it give you peace and solace then good for you. I have read the Koran several times and found at least for me it makes little sense without the Hadith (words and actions of the Prophet Mohammad during his lifetime) The Hadith explains many Suras that are vague. This is a complicated religion in that is has many contradictions that tend to confuse the reader.

My take on Islam is it CAN be a religion of "Peace" if some of the suras are ignored. As I currently work in Jordan, I have many Muslim friends who I believe are good and caring people. They believe in their religion with a passion I find admirable.

There are however, extremists who wrongfully take a radical interpetation of some suras that promote the evil side of Islam. The Koran was written in a formal Arabic that is not spoken today and is not easily understood by Arabic speaking people. In mosque an Iman (Prayer leader/priest) recites a sura and then explains it's meaning. Of course his explanation may not be what was originally intended.

I do take a few exceptions with Islam in that it deprives it's adherants of free will. A muslim woman does not have free will to marry outside of her religion, under penalty of death. At mosque, prayer is done by rote with many muslims lacking understanding what he is saying as it is in "high" Arabic. In some Arab countries Muslims are forced to go to mosque 5 times each day to pray. I fail to see how it honors God if the prayers are forced.

An Iman can issue a "Fatwa" (an order based on religious teachings) a Fatwa need not be obeyed as it is up to each muslim to decide it's veracity. In actual practice Fatwas ARE obeyed by enough Muslims to cause chaos. Perhaps you will recall the Fatwa issued against Simon Rushdi for a book he wrote. The Fatwa called for his death. Rushdi is STILL in hiding.

All this religion needs to truly make it a religion of "peace" is for a charismatic Iman to modernize it the way Christianity has been modernized. Then it COULD be a religion of hope.



[edit on 14-7-2010 by gem_man]

reply to post by Michael Cecil


Err, wasn't Mohammad around something like 600 years after Jesus?

reply to post by oozyism

Let me elaborate:
"GOD is the most just"
That means justice is important, then if you think you will come to the conclusion that, you can't gain justice without truth, which leads us to the next quality of GOD hence:
"GOD knows all"

Ultimately all those qualities, under one GOD leads to peace.

I can think of no greater waste of time than to sit around contemplating such childish thoughts and believing that I have somehow accomplished something in the process. Seriously, it really is a childish exercise, something you might do in the third grade.

Do you really need a ready-made text and philosophy to live your life? It smacks of such weakness that all I can picture is a helpless child.

Sorry, I don't mean to offend, but if you have to justify your G-d, then you have a very weak case to begin with.

Originally posted by xkiax
Religions are not based on logic or common sense. Throughout history religion has killed more people than anything. This has been proven over and over again in different times, countries and cultures.

Even WW1 & WW2 were, at least, "supported" by religion. those weren't wars in the name of religion but churches did show support to the soldiers killing the other soldiers who had their own preachers bless them to... confusing?

The Vatican has its hands in more weapon-bussiness then you and I know.

Religion truly has become a tool of opression. Hence the reason the bible gives a hint how to recognize gods true followers

John 13:35 (New International Version)

35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

There are numerous concepts in the bible wich go straight against doctrines from the Qu'ran. Strangely enough the Qu'ran does acknowledge certain biblical writers.
The Reason Qu'ran was written was because the bible's message was so greatly altered that god decided he needed a new book. This concept draws a complete paradox when taking into account god is omnipotent but he aparently doesn't have the ability to keep his message (the bible) in working order for us to read? So in JHWH's omnipotence he failed to bring his plan to fruition and man was the one to thwart his plans? Quite ignorant i'd say

reply to post by gem_man


You mean that it is a mistake to take a literal meaning of the quran?

Another book written by men who claim to speak for GOD!...oh will the arrogance ever end!

Almost every religion in the world depends on a holy book.
Some religions have several forms of scripture.
Often these books have been attributed to God or Gods.
At least there was some claim of divine inspiration. Some of us are so sick of hearing this nonsense day in and day out! I don't care if it's the Bible or the Quran. These religions of Lies! NEWS FLASH!...there is no all powerful grandfather like man shaking his all powerful finger at us like bad boys and girls. I don't care what you believe but honestly this stuff has caused more Wars and horrible deaths and torcher that makes what Hitler did look like kid and play.

reply to post by Gentill Abdulla


You are correct he married a 9 year old girl after being begged to marry her. I was not there so I do not know if he treated her with respect or if he consumated there marriage... Do you?

Also He could read and write he was from a merchant family....

[edit on 14-7-2010 by poedxsoldiervet]

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


It says in the quran Mohammad consomated marriage to
a 9 year old girl 3 years after marriage, so he wated till she reached puberty which was custom, i bet he couldnt wait sik bastard!!

Originally posted by CaptGizmo
Another book written by men who claim to speak for GOD!...oh will the arrogance ever end!

Almost every religion in the world depends on a holy book.
Some religions have several forms of scripture.
Often these books have been attributed to God or Gods.
At least there was some claim of divine inspiration. Some of us are so sick of hearing this nonsense day in and day out! I don't care if it's the Bible or the Quran. These religions of Lies! NEWS FLASH!...there is no all powerful grandfather like man shaking his all powerful finger at us like bad boys and girls. I don't care what you believe but honestly this stuff has caused more Wars and horrible deaths and torcher that makes what Hitler did look like kid and play.

No actually hitlers achievements were pretty darn awesome... he solely started WW2 with more deaths then any other war before in a timespan wich most wars wont even come close to... you can thank technological advancements for that.

Still you're right about the fact that religion is responsible for a tremendous amount of wrongdoing in the world. just look at the killings during the FIFA WC. killing people for watching soccer? how low can you go...



Off-topic question: I've seen this happen quite a few times in different threads but just a minute ago the star-system dissapeared.. does anyone know how this happens and why? thnx in advance, just curious.

[edit on 14/7/2010 by faceoff85]

I have been thinking about Modern Religion lately and can't help noticing a pattern: God of [insert religion here] needs a human being to relay His word to HIS creations. Think about it. If God wanted his word to be followed, would He not directly speak to people and tell them? Does an omni-X Divine Being need to convey His message through a human being?

Knowing that human beings are prone to corruption and deviance (after all God did create human beings), was it not kind of stupid to entrust Human Beings with spreading HIS law?

[edit on 14/7/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
A notion I am finding very strange of late is God of [religion] needing a human to relay His word. Think about it. If God wanted his word to be followed, would He not directly speak to people and tell them? Does an omni-X Divine Being need to convey His message through a human being?

The answer to this is actually quite logical. Take into consideration that the ham-question in essence revolves around the matter of free will. people need to freely choose who they wanna worship or their sacrifice/offering (worship in this case, not animalsacrifice) is worth nothing to god.

What do you think would happen if all of a sudden you'd have this voice come out of nowhere starting to educate you about these matters, heck throw in some wonders like a fiery heaven and some sick people being cured...

People would be in awe and they'd follow the voice wich made the biggest spectacle of things. even nowadays the person able to rile up the crowds the best is the one elected for president. God doesn't wanna convince people to worship him by impressing them. he wants us to freely choose without him or any other impressing happening to influence our desicion..

Originally posted by lestweforget
Let me start by addressing your points
1 Agreed it probably was.
2 Big call, but i doubt it.
3 No, islam primarily means submission or to submit.
Also you mention a couple of the 90 odd names of allah
in the quran, the one that should ring alarm bells is The
Great Deceiver!

Uh 3. it actually means peace.

Islam is derived from the arabic word salaam meaning peace.

Just to point out how much you don't know there are 99 names of Allah.

(None of them being the deceiver.)

Here are a couple...

The most merciful

the most gracious