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Islam is the best DEMOCRACY (NOT Western Democracy)

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posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


You're not a Christian so don't claim to be. And don't insult Christians with your phony logic. You're just another fanatic helping the OP spread his BS psychobabble.

I've been around for a long time and I have seen a lot of changes. Some were good and some were not so good. And I see how these things begin and take root.

It's people like you who talk about love and peace in the face of evil that are more dangerous than jag-offs like the OP.

There was a lot of anti-war sentiment in the United States before and even during World War II. It was guys like you who would have been content to have let Hitler take over the world.

Peace was their answer.

What you propose is no different than what phony anti-war protesters will always do.... It is guys like you who mask their hatred and fear with cunning rhetoric, filled with words like peace and love. Hiding ones hatred is nothing more than a Lie.

I can tell when someone is sincere in their overtures of peace and I can also tell when somebody is full of ...t.

You're so full of it that it doesn't even matter to you what kind of record you leave behind.

Keep on calling yourself Christian while defending Muslim fanatics. Keep on masking your deep seated hatred of the Truth. You may sway others with your cunning form of deception, but don't try this ...t on me again, or I'll rip you a new one.

P.S. In my experience, its also guys like you who always manage to get themselves arrested and usually wind up doing a stretch in the joint. It is there that they end up getting their ass poked on a daily basis by .....the notorious love monkey.....



[edit on 16-7-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]




posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 09:54 PM
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What does Islam offer that Democracy cannot?

Islam has factions.

staff.jccc.net...

Which faction is correct in their belief? There can only be one Islam to conform to....correct? The Islamic factions fight one another don't they?
Now if Islam is better than democracy....can I vote anyone out of office? Can I elect someone new to represent me? Do I have a voice to argue my difference to the Koran? Is the Koran absolute law? What if I disagree but I still want to be Muslim? What if my interpretation is different? Do I have to conform to an overall belief? Can I define Islam as I see it? How much personal freedom do I have? Will my civil liberties be infrindged upon? If I watch a non-Islamic program on TV will I be punished? If my wife has an affair with my neighbore while I film it will she be stoned to death or will we just get divorced? Can I work on Sundays? Can I visit Israel?


Democracry is the rule of the people or a representative democracy where we elect people to make decisions for us.

en.wikipedia.org...

Democracy leads to corruption. It is inevitable.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by sdcigarpig
 


Sooooo you proved this point wrong:



that by Democracy I specifically meant choice. That ultimately it is your choice to choose whether you want to be Muslim or not. Prove me wrong. One point at a time.


By this:


as you fail to realise that Democracy is not the correct word.

LOL read what I wrong again, very carefully this time:



that by Democracy I specifically meant choice. That ultimately it is your choice to choose whether you want to be Muslim or not. Prove me wrong. One point at a time.


So do we agree, that by Democracy I meant choice?






[edit on 16-7-2010 by oozyism]



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by sdcigarpig
 


Sooooo you proved this point wrong:



that by Democracy I specifically meant choice. That ultimately it is your choice to choose whether you want to be Muslim or not. Prove me wrong. One point at a time.


By this:


as you fail to realise that Democracy is not the correct word.[/QUOTE]
LOL read what I wrong again, very carefully this time:



that by Democracy I specifically meant choice. That ultimately it is your choice to choose whether you want to be Muslim or not. Prove me wrong. One point at a time.


So do we agree, that by Democracy I meant choice?





No we do not agree that by Democracy means choice. It is the wrong word for the context you are using it.
Let me help you out:
The definition of Democracy, according to the Merriam Dictionary is:
1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
2 : a political unit that has a democratic government
3 capitalized : the principles and policies of the Democratic party in the United States
4 : the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority
5 : the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges
So would you say that maybe that I am right that the word Democracy is not correct, and maybe you got the wrong word. If it is not, how about you define Democracy.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:06 PM
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In a Democracy....I choose to embrace Islam?....can't I?

I can also embrace......well.....any religion or system of belief...right?



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:13 PM
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reply to post by sdcigarpig
 


Sorry SDCIGARPIG, I have proven my point, step by step. Anyone who reads this will see I have proven my point:

Me:


So do we agree, that by Democracy I meant choice?


You:


No we do not agree that by Democracy means choice.



I know what I meant, I chose my words very carefully to see if my assumption was correct. My assumption that you do not want to agree on any issues, due to hate or not, is non-of my concern, I have proven my point.

There is absolutely no way anyone can disagree with what I wrote.

Go have a sleep.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by wdkirk
In a Democracy....I choose to embrace Islam?....can't I?

I can also embrace......well.....any religion or system of belief...right?

Yes.

Continue, I like it when people do it step by step.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 

No... Just the ones who could never accept us.. I have experience in that...


Lol..

Yeah xeta; i cannot.wait. to.adfa to my tally..

[edit on 16-7-2010 by Yissachar1]



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by wdkirk
 


Wait then any other Abrahamic religion is also a Democracy right?
Or am I missing the thrust of your argument Oozy?



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Can I also embrace Democracy while being apart of Islam....by your definition?

Explain to me how Islam lets me have a choice while practicing its precepts? I am not asking to follow Islam or not....I am asking what my options are while following the Islamic Faith....where are my boundaries?



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by nenothtu
 


I don't think you get it neno and obviously I don't expect you to get it. Hate makes you blind, I have been there, done that ^^


Then explain it to me in a lucid manner. So far, what you are saying makes no sense other than what I have tried to answer.

As far as the 'hate' goes, you're quite welcome to try to tar me with any brush you like. Doesn't make it so, and I've had much worse said about me. I may be 'blind' but at least i'm not 'stupid', so I know what I've experienced. Just saying pretty words about something doesn't make what is said so.



I was in a part of my life where hate ruled over my ability to think clearly, without that thinking there is no understanding.


Oh, I understand far better than you think - or at least far better than you want OTHERS to think.



You damn well know you choose Islam, you damn well know Islam doesn't allow itself to be forcefully injected upon you, and you damn well know Islam defines Muslims and not the other way around.


Semantically correct, but pretty word often hide ugly truths.

Yes, you 'choose' islam. What's not being said there is the danger inherent in un-choosing it. What's not being said thee is the choices that some (not all, I admit) are forced to make when that decision comes around. Yes, you can 'choose' islam, but often enough the only alternative choice is pretty horrendous, too.

Islam isn't NECCESSARILY forcefully imposed. Often times it IS, even today, or is attempted to be. Yes, you can just say 'no', and then accept the consequences of that.

I'm not sure why you keep saying 'islam defines muslims, not the other way around'. Islam is NOTHING but words on a page without the true believers, so how can you claim muslims don't matter? Are you saying Mohammed wasn't really a muslim? OR are you trying to hide the real face of islam, and put pretty lipstick on it, for public consumption?



You keep avoiding these issues by presenting your sentiment in regards to the so called Muslims and their actions.

Already been explained.


Again (maybe I should say this louder, too?) I have no problem with muslims, as long as their religion is just another religion. When they go political with a religion, then yes, I develop problems with that, rapidly. When they try to force those POLITICS on others, disguised as a religion, those problems accelerate. The phrase 'going ballistic' comes to mind.



Jizya has already been explained.

Choice has already been explained.


There is a big difference between 'explaining' something and trying to hide the real character of it.

A BIG difference. You've not 'explained' either of the above, but you're sure enough trying to hide the real character of them, to advance the islamic agenda as a political system. The very thread title is all the understanding really needed to discern that agenda.



Democracy being a faith has already been explained, any thing you have faith in, is faith. People (hence you), who have belief that Democracy is a good system of governance, believe in that faith.



Yes, I've explained it, thoroughly, and you have failed to grasp it. I'm still not sure why you think I 'believe' in democracy. I do NOT subscribe to democracy. So I don't believe in it in that way. I do NOT worship democracy, I don't even like it! I can prove democracy exists, so it's THERE, not a 'belief' or a 'faith'. There are not temples, churches, or mosques to democracy.

No, democracy is NOT a 'faith', and it really doesn't matter how many times you try to claim it IS, it will never be so. In that way, it's much like many of the other claims you make.



The only thing which needs to be explained now is the word games you are playing, but again, there is no need for me to explain because you don't have the tendency to understand.


Yeah, I'm probably stupid like that. I'll let the readers figure out who it is that's playing "word games".



That being said, good day/night to you neno


And good day/night to you as well. Hard to keep up with when the world is as big as it is, isn't it?

Especially when some folks like me don't keep a normal schedule.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by nenothtu


You're 'protected' in islam to practice your own religion as long as you pay the 'protection money'.

In America, we call that a 'protection racket', and it's always run by organized crime.


You're protected by Islam, as stated in the Quran, the constitution of Islam.

Jizya already been explained.


No, jizyah has been EXCUSED, nowhere have you 'explained' it.

Not even as stated in the Qur'an. That passage is as plain as day.

Jizyah is a TRIBUTE from SUBJUGATED peoples in order to ALLOW them to practice their religion.

[edit on 2010/7/16 by nenothtu]



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by nenothtu
 


I don't think you get it neno and obviously I don't expect you to get it. Hate makes you blind, I have been there, done that ^^


Then explain it to me in a lucid manner. So far, what you are saying makes no sense other than what I have tried to answer.

As far as the 'hate' goes, you're quite welcome to try to tar me with any brush you like. Doesn't make it so, and I've had much worse said about me. I may be 'blind' but at least i'm not 'stupid', so I know what I've experienced. Just saying pretty words about something doesn't make what is said so.



I was in a part of my life where hate ruled over my ability to think clearly, without that thinking there is no understanding.


Oh, I understand far better than you think - or at least far better than you want OTHERS to think.



You damn well know you choose Islam, you damn well know Islam doesn't allow itself to be forcefully injected upon you, and you damn well know Islam defines Muslims and not the other way around.


Semantically correct, but pretty word often hide ugly truths.

Yes, you 'choose' islam. What's not being said there is the danger inherent in un-choosing it. What's not being said thee is the choices that some (not all, I admit) are forced to make when that decision comes around. Yes, you can 'choose' islam, but often enough the only alternative choice is pretty horrendous, too.

Islam isn't NECCESSARILY forcefully imposed. Often times it IS, even today, or is attempted to be. Yes, you can just say 'no', and then accept the consequences of that.

I'm not sure why you keep saying 'islam defines muslims, not the other way around'. Islam is NOTHING but words on a page without the true believers, so how can you claim muslims don't matter? Are you saying Mohammed wasn't really a muslim? OR are you trying to hide the real face of islam, and put pretty lipstick on it, for public consumption?



You keep avoiding these issues by presenting your sentiment in regards to the so called Muslims and their actions.

Already been explained.


Again (maybe I should say this louder, too?) I have no problem with muslims, as long as their religion is just another religion. When they go political with a religion, then yes, I develop problems with that, rapidly. When they try to force those POLITICS on others, disguised as a religion, those problems accelerate. The phrase 'going ballistic' comes to mind.



Jizya has already been explained.

Choice has already been explained.


There is a big difference between 'explaining' something and trying to hide the real character of it.

A BIG difference. You've not 'explained' either of the above, but you're sure enough trying to hide the real character of them, to advance the islamic agenda as a political system. The very thread title is all the understanding really needed to discern that agenda.



Democracy being a faith has already been explained, any thing you have faith in, is faith. People (hence you), who have belief that Democracy is a good system of governance, believe in that faith.



Yes, I've explained it, thoroughly, and you have failed to grasp it. I'm still not sure why you think I 'believe' in democracy. I do NOT subscribe to democracy. So I don't believe in it in that way. I do NOT worship democracy, I don't even like it! I can prove democracy exists, so it's THERE, not a 'belief' or a 'faith'. There are not temples, churches, or mosques to democracy.

No, democracy is NOT a 'faith', and it really doesn't matter how many times you try to claim it IS, it will never be so. In that way, it's much like many of the other claims you make.



The only thing which needs to be explained now is the word games you are playing, but again, there is no need for me to explain because you don't have the tendency to understand.


Yeah, I'm probably stupid like that. I'll let the readers figure out who it is that's playing "word games".



That being said, good day/night to you neno


And good day/night to you as well. Hard to keep up with when the world is as big as it is, isn't it?

Especially when some folks like me don't keep a normal schedule.

I doubt there will ever be a rational discussion with this filth. Notice how OP COMPLETELY avoided the fact that they tried to use lies to support their argument... "Islam is the fastest growing religion in the US...." LOL - please.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


You select very direct circumstances from a shared history your peope had no part in..


That is what is going to destroy you in the end..


Lol



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by sdcigarpig
 


Sorry SDCIGARPIG, I have proven my point, step by step. Anyone who reads this will see I have proven my point:

Me:


So do we agree, that by Democracy I meant choice?


You:


No we do not agree that by Democracy means choice.



I know what I meant, I chose my words very carefully to see if my assumption was correct. My assumption that you do not want to agree on any issues, due to hate or not, is non-of my concern, I have proven my point.

There is absolutely no way anyone can disagree with what I wrote.

Go have a sleep.

Sorry oozyism, I would disagree with you. It is obvious by that post that you are just an ignorant individual who can not see the forest for the trees. Every post I made, backed by fact, proven by what you can find, was able to prove my point and disprove yours time and time again. I looked at what you wrote, disagreed with it and even took the time and common courtesy to define the word Democracy. I would say that you are one of those people who can ont bear to admit that maybe, just maybe their point of view is wrong as it would destroy what sense of ego driven self satisfaction. I am sorry that you can not or will not admit that you are wrong, perhaps in a few years when you have developed wisdom and can actually make arguments backed by facts, and be able to admit that you may be wrong and consider the facts as they are weighed then maybe there might be hope. Why don't you tell the people here the truth about what rule under Islam would be like? Do you know have you lived there as an alternative religion? I have talked with people from Iran, Iraq and Afganistan. This is what I was told, by people who experienced it. Yes you can be an alternative religion. But you will never hold a high political office, it may be written in the law, but it is an unspoken rule that you will not be allowed to hold a high poilitical office. Alternative religion, well you are not allowed to practice in public, that is an offense that sends a person to prison. Alternative faiths keep their heads down, and try to hide in the background. Country like Iran starts having problems with Isreal, well then the jewish population in Iran gets the snot beaten out of them. Oh yeah, what a choice, please, how about you tell the Truth about how Islam abuses and persecutes people who are not of that sect.
Instead of behind a hypocrit, why don't you admit the truth and state that you will not accept any argument that dares to disagree with you.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by mf_luder
 


You can't debate, nor can you discuss, which forces me debunk your post once more with this line.

Islam defines a Muslim, not the other way around.

If you can argue that point then I'll take all the atrocities committed by supposed Muslims.


How much clearer can he make it than when he said without muslims the Qur'an is just a dusty old book? Islam comes straight out of the Qur'an, and is heavily modified by he hadith and sunnah (did I say 'modified'? I meant 'explained', in keeping with your insistence on 'explaining' things away that you would prefer others to be unaware of).

Without muslims, islam is just ink on a page. You can try all day long to unlink them, but they are forever tied to one another.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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To be totally honest. Islam can do whatever it likes.. But if it interferes with our lives i will do all i can to destroy it.
Love and kisses .x

[edit on 16-7-2010 by Yissachar1]



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by wdkirk
 


Wait then any other Abrahamic religion is also a Democracy right?
Or am I missing the thrust of your argument Oozy?


Ohhh please, don't get on my nerves Slayer, I just explained not long ago what I meant by Democracy.


I can't continue explaining myself (more likely repeating myself).



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by wdkirk
 




Can I also embrace Democracy while being apart of Islam

Yes but the boundaries are set by the constitution, hence Quran.



Explain to me how Islam lets me have a choice while practicing its precepts? I am not asking to follow Islam or not....I am asking what my options are while following the Islamic Faith....where are my boundaries?


It gives you the ultimate choice, to be a citizen or not.

[edit on 16-7-2010 by oozyism]



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism

There is absolutely no way anyone can disagree with what I wrote.


.. and yet they do. It's not exactly going to plan is it Oozy. Kind of like Islam!
I also find it hilarious that you don't wish anyone to think independently of your viewpoint (see above). Is this attitude you display here your idea of Islamic democracy?


You are a joke!

IRM



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