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Islam is the best DEMOCRACY (NOT Western Democracy)

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posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


In answer to your question: 97% of all dictators from the begining of the early 20th century to the present are voted into office by the political masses. Though I would say that many would regret such later on, but none the less, the dictator is voted into office. History shows that as well.




posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism

You know as well as me that Islam has laws, your argument is that it is a belief therefore .. I don't even know what you are trying to say.

Did you know Democracy is also a belief, did you know communism is also a belief.


No, they are "operating systems", not "belief systems". They are the systems by which some nations operate, and no religious beliefs are involved in that operation. Democracy being political, and communism being economic.



Ultimately it is your decision which system you want to be governed by. You choose whether you want to be governed by Islam or not.


Which is why I'm not in an islamic nation. Where am I supposed to go when islam goes world-wide as a "nation"? Without borders no less! how am I to escape it when there is no border to sneak across?

I know the answer to that. The first time they come around to collect the jizyah, there's going to be trouble. Big, bloody trouble. The only 'escape' I'm to be allowed will be death, but I promise that I'll take a few servants with me...





For all intents and purposes, a religion, since the entire system is based on a belief in a particular deity, without which belief it collapses like a house of cards.


Exactly, if you don't believe Quran is from GOD, then there is no need for you to live under Islamic rules, it is those who believe Quran is from GOD that want to live under Islamic rules.

Once again, I can't stress this enough, you decide whether you want to be ruled by Islam or not. If you do then you will become a citizen of Islam.


Then let them live in Saudi Arabia, and leave the countries that didn't start out as islamic alone. Stop trying to conquer, by whatever means the choice of the day is.

The day Shari'a takes hold in America is the day that hell will literally break loose. Folks can live by our rules here, or they can go to their own countries and live by their rules there, but they can't live by their rules here, any more than I can live by my rules there. No way on Earth that 'borderless' societies of that nature can intermingle.

When borders drop, the whole society goes one way or the other.




IN the other hand, let me put this on the table for you, can you vote for dictatorship?


No, and that is precisely why islam would be a dictatorship if it were a political system rather than a religious one. More properly, I suppose, it would be an oligarchy, but still the people would have NO choice in the matter of whether they wanted to observe islam or not.



If you want to change the governance system, can you vote to change it from Western Democracy to another type of system?


Yes, that's sort of the idea of a vote.



We all know Western Democracy has its flaws, hence Hitler etc.


Bad example. Nazism is NOT a democracy, it was a totalitarian dictatorship, just as every single instance of communism has been.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 09:48 PM
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Yes, dictators are elected into office, Hitler, Mussolini, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Franco, Raoul Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim JongIl, Sadam Hussain, Amademajad, Pol Pot, Juan Peron. All of those dictators used the population to get into a position of leadership and then once there, proceeded to control their countries as a dictators.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


What is the penalty for eating pork in Islam? Do they turn the tables and put you in the pig pens? Do they not then feed you to the pigs? Or are there no pigs allowed in Islam because they will tempt the faithful with their scrumptious aroma?



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Had to change something in this post, but didn't want it to get lost in the shuffle.

I misread this:



IN the other hand, let me put this on the table for you, can you vote for dictatorship?



Yes, you can vote FOR a dictatorship, but you can't vote AGAINST it once it's emplaced.

That's what makes islam such a dangerous proposition. In that, there is no difference between islam and a dictatorship - trying to get out of either one can turn deadly in a heartbeat, and no vote, no reasoning, will be tolerated.

You already know how I know that, so don't give me any pious platitudes about how "that isn't in the Qur'an". Strange notions like that didn't make the death threats any less real.

They were real enough to me that I got the hell out of dodge.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
CASE CLOSED!!


I was gathering together my thoughts and points to indicate all the fallacies of the OP, but then I got to that statement.

From my experience I have learned when someone says that, they are either trying to force something on you or they don't know what the hell they are talking about.

Most of my thoughts were brought up in the many responses from others quite well.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by Wolf321

Originally posted by oozyism
CASE CLOSED!!


I was gathering together my thoughts and points to indicate all the fallacies of the OP, but then I got to that statement.

From my experience I have learned when someone says that, they are either trying to force something on you or they don't know what the hell they are talking about.


"CASE CLOSED!!" roughly translates into plain english as "MIND CLOSED! Do as I say, because you are WRONG, no two ways about it!"

Working with that translation, BOTH of your experiences are right!



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by badw0lf
 


I think that you summed it all up perfectly in your post.

And it is useless to argue with these criminals. They will not tolerate anybody who would disagree with them.

They act like jealous 13 year-olds, and they treat their women like ...t.

They are like a disease without a cure. And they are spreading rapidly.

[edit on 16-7-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 11:57 PM
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reply to post by ohsnaptruth
 



Originally posted by ohsnaptruth

PS. About the veil thing, yeah... that's not originally part of the Islamic religion. In fact, the Qu'ran says men and women are equals. Whereas in the Christian Bible, it says women serve men. If someone attacks my post with a verse from the Bible, remember: Jesus Christ/ Muhammad accepted and loved everyone --enemy or friend.

Personally, I love everyone for who they are regardless of their religion!



Will you still love me as I now remind you that Muhammad loved 6 year old girls? Maybe you will justify his actions by saying that it was and still is a common practice in the Arab world. But this is no justification.

"And if the children rebuffed the advances of the pedophile, they were stoned to death."

Please, do not even mention Jesus and / The Pedophile in the same sentence. You do God a great disservice.

The difference between the two is as different as day and night.

[edit on 16-7-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 


Dear MY2Commoncentsworth,

You had been hogging this thread to spread your drivel and hate against Muslims and its theology. Please do not attempt to deny it, for anyone can see clearly where you are comming from.

What had the Muslims done to you? Had they forced you to abstained from pork? Had they forced your womenfolk to put on veils? Had they declare they want you dead?

If you had been an orphaned child from the crime committed in 911, I could understand your hatred. But my comprehension does not mean agreement with such hate.

The danger of hatred is that it refused to target the single individual responsible, but relies on generatlization to paint a bigger threat to influence others to join in the hatred.

911 was committed by a bunch of radical fanatics, and not by the entire Muslim believers. Terrorism was committed by a bunch of radical fanatics, and not by the entire Muslim community around the world. Just as blacks are believed to be criminals, truth is, whites are equally capable and had committed crimes as well.

Crimes, harm and hurt are not dependent on the skin color, the religion practiced, the politics adhered, or whatever generalities one uses to perpertrate hatred against a group of people.

There are deeper social issues that are associated with crimes, and if it is to be totally eradicated, it begins with education and the societal effort to research and come out with pragmatic solutions on both the crime itself and its prevention, not the kind whereby society is told to watch more mickey mouse cartoons.

My intention is not to change your mind, for it would be bound to be failure as your mind is too far gone in self perpertrated hatred for a group of people to discern truths and realities.

It is only to reflect back upon you the hatred you spew without you even realizing it and it will be your own decision to learn more about the religion in order to be in a position to criticise, or not to and just blare your venom stupidly.

And no. I am not a Muslim. I am a Christian, belonging to the True Church. And the true church is where one's heart is, that needs no baubles, fancy buildings, enriching self serving priests, etc.

Everyone is my brother and sister, and all are children of our Creator, including you.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


You are right, Awesome idea, Muslims are the only true demorcracy. When Shariah law takes over in the U.S., and my neice is being stoned to death for pre-marital sex, or for that matter defying her husband, you will be proven right. I hope this post was a joke. Otherwise put on your burka, go cook dinner, pray five times a day, and condemn, then kill your relatives that defy Allah. P.S. Your views will go unchallengenged on "Al Jazeera". Not Here!



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 01:54 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


the best democracy is no democracy

the best thing to have would be anarchy

anarchy is order without control



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 02:04 AM
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Verily We have brought the truth to you: but most of you have a Hatred for truth.
(Qur'an, 43:78)


May we all get that which we chose.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by dreamwalker74
 


I am saddened by the shallowness in critical thinking of my fellow peers here in ATS.

Let's take a commonality amongst the 3 religions - the 10 commandments.
By itself, it is a constitution to a group of people, sensible laws to begin the steps for civilisation to take place in a world ruled by barbarism and 'might is right' power mongers.

In time as civilisation grew from the plains into cities, more detailed laws were created so that diverse mankind may live at least in peace if not in harmony, and begin the steps to evolution.

Even for the US Constitution, certain aspects of the commandments had been reworded into it. Would any constitution allows the killing of its own citizens or deny the right to bear arms against foreign agressors? What were democratic nations' constitutions based upon?

It was these ancient teachings, teachings which seperates us from our tree swinging monkey cousins that led to our progress to the moon today.
Unfortunately, such teachings had been manipulated and MIS-interpretated by evil men who sought to dominate and enslave others using politcal doctrines as form of governance - Monarchy, Dictatorship, Communism, illusions of Democracy, etc.

Not many were aware that the Bible was forbidden to the common masses till the 15th century, or the Koran allowed only to village idiot bootlickers from the brutual Ottoman Empire till it was divinely destroyed by 1911.

Western culture had enlightened free men to thank for their evolution. It broke the yokel of enslavement as well as the harsh edicts of the Inquisition era.

During that era, none complained of the Inquisition till themselves become targets, innocent of any crime except to challenge the authorities on their interpretation, and the rest become history.

Similarly too will it be the case for the Muslim people, whom have the fullest right to decide for themselves how they should be ruled in their own lands. Sharia law may seem harsh, but it is no more harsher than the Inquisition laws our western ancestors had to go through till they saw the light.

So too will the new generation of Muslims see the light.

Hatred and acrimonitions will only split brother against brother. Time, education and leadership by example will help change minds.

And if you truly care about our Muslim brothers and sisters, let us lead by example and encouragement, and not by hatred. We are all one race - the Human race, destined for greatness in the haunting beauty and emptiness of our Universe.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 02:37 AM
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Originally posted by skajkingdom

Verily We have brought the truth to you: but most of you have a Hatred for truth.
(Qur'an, 43:78)

How exactly does the Quran define Truth, though? Why is the Truth in the Quran more accurate than the Truth in the Christian Bible or the Truth in the Jewish Torah?

What makes you so confident that the Quran is Truth and not Deception?

[edit on 16/7/2010 by Dark Ghost]



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 03:02 AM
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Originally posted by skajkingdom

Verily We have brought the truth to you: but most of you have a Hatred for truth.
(Qur'an, 43:78)


May we all get that which we chose.


That is, without a doubt, something that we can agree upon. We have brought the truth to you, and most of you hate the truth, preferring a great lie.

I have my truth, you have yours, and we will, without a doubt, both get what we seek. I'm also pretty sure one of us has no idea what he's in for when he gets it, and is, right now at this moment, unaware of what he's REALLY after - and won't know, until it's way too late.

Long ago, far away, it was actually a great curse to wish upon a man that he gets everything he thinks he wants.

Joy is in the journey, never in attaining the goal. Once you've reached your goal, there's nowhere else to go.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 04:16 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


1- Democracy is an operation system agreed, but also you haven't refuted the point that it is also a belief.. Are you saying Islam is not an operating system?

2- Everything you are saying is a derivative of hate, it seems you fear Islam therefore would demean it with any means necessary.

34 It seems you don't care whether people choose Islam or not, you don't want it no matter what, that doesn't make you a Democratic as well. But you know what I mean when I say Democratic right? You don't let people choose.
4- Islam has no physical borders, as I said previously borders don't work, people choose whether they want to be governed by it from individual level. Just because fear has been installed in your head doesn't give you the right to stop others from choosing. Future generations can choose Islam if they wish, many are already doing it.



Islamic boundaries grow and shrink based on acceptance of Islam, not because of expansionist ideas.

5- That being said, what I suspect you are doing is that, you are trying to stop the Islamic growth, stop its boundaries from getting bigger and bigger, I have seen so many in New Zealand, specially the aborigines and the Islander communities become an Islamic citizen.

See the beauty of Islam? You can't force it to stop by force, but only by pen.

6- It was not a totalitarian dictatorship before people voted for Hitler, get it?

[edit on 16-7-2010 by oozyism]



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 04:21 AM
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Peace is all we need. Learn to teach it, practice it, live it.

I have to say, in the USA there are no religious wars taking place among it's people, and it is the most religiously mixed nation in the world. The people are not creating wars over religion because we don't have a problem with anyone practicing whatever they want, in fact you are protected by law to be able to do so.

There are however recent events in the news over the mosque in New York. This is argued at town hall meetings and not with bullets and blood.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 04:25 AM
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Originally posted by space cadet
Peace is all we need. Learn to teach it, practice it, live it.

I have to say, in the USA there are no religious wars taking place among it's people, and it is the most religiously mixed nation in the world. The people are not creating wars over religion because we don't have a problem with anyone practicing whatever they want, in fact you are protected by law to be able to do so.

There are however recent events in the news over the mosque in New York. This is argued at town hall meetings and not with bullets and blood.


You're protected by Islam to practice your religion. Just because people are ignorant of it... Don't know what to it.

Second line.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism

You're protected by Islam to practice your religion. Just because people are ignorant of it... Don't know what to it.

Second line.




Oh, wait your serious aren't you. But you've got to admit it, that's funny. "Youre protected by islam to practice your religion."



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