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Islam is the best DEMOCRACY (NOT Western Democracy)

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posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


Its sad to see this forum been taken over by Islamic radicals, dont your people have your own forums?



Unfortunately for the Muslims during that era, they had been rule by the vicious and barbaric Ottoman Empire, which kept them stupid, denied education and opportunities.


like todays bosnia, Muslims do not care for the citzens nor do they care if they dont have a job, people live in porvety and have to find other ways to work for the money.




Open your eyes and look into the wonder of ancient scripts and you will find the truth of religion, not just on one sole book, but on many others which combined, will corelate and lead to your foundations for the greatest truth to be known to mankind.


lol no thanks




posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism

Down Boy..

You know exactly what he is saying, the Quran doesn't contradict his views. Islam allows people to stay blind if they wish, it is their own loss, it says let them enjoy the pleasures of this life.

It seems you are one of those people who do not have anything to add in regards to the OP, but I haven't read the whole thread yet, after a siggie I will


And the person I replied to, Did add to the OP ?

Seems people either accept being Muslim and then are worthy of acceptance, or refuse to accept it, and are outcast and denigrated for the same things their 'brothers' are allowed to do.

Ignorance.

You can keep it.

Oh, but if you want on topic..... Nah, Islam cannot be considered a good example of a cohesive society. No-where is there an example to prove this. Your ideology is simply that, but in practice, it falls short. All your rose coloured intentions of portraying Islam as the most wonderful thing since air, is meaningless when faced with the truth - which is patently obvious to anyone who looks.

Islam is not defined by pleasant words and thoughts. It is defined by action, and look around you. Show me one example of a harmonious Islamic state. One.

Show me one example of where Islam lives in harmony with ideas and concepts it does not agree with. Where is coexists with opposing views in a tolerant manner. Where it accepts non-Muslims as Equals and not 'blind inferior kuffar who will spend the afterlife in torment'.

It is one thing to be religious and look down on others in pity. It is another to look down on them with scorn.

Democracy? Submission by it's very name. By every Muslims own admission.

Freedom to leave? Again, pleasant words and thoughts do not reveal the reality that this is not the case.

There is no paradise on earth where your concept of Islam exists. That, is the truth.






posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 03:20 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism
Islam is the BEST DEMOCRACY, here is why:

Western Democracy works on majority, while Islamic DEMOCRACY works on individual level.

Let's make it simple and break it down:

- Islam is the nation.

- A Muslim is the citizen of Islam.

- The constitution of Islam is the Quran.


LOL! ... just LOL!

IRM



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 04:44 AM
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Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by oozyism
Islam is the BEST DEMOCRACY, here is why:

Western Democracy works on majority, while Islamic DEMOCRACY works on individual level.

Let's make it simple and break it down:

- Islam is the nation.

- A Muslim is the citizen of Islam.

- The constitution of Islam is the Quran.


LOL! ... just LOL!

IRM


LOL

Islam - Democracy, I'm sorry - I almost choked on my tea I was laughing so hard.

Take this crap and get it out of ATS.

The day Islam is considered a democratic belief system is the day that a flying pig sprouts out of my arse and flies around my house a couple of times singing AC/DC songs.

LOL.

Wow.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by oozyism
 


No, it is a different interpretation...that may be due to their culture, but it is still a different interpretation!


It is not based on their culture, it is their culture lol.

I am from Afghanistan, I know.


So what?

I have a friend from Iran, he know's.

But what he knows is diferrent to what you know.

Stop talking nonsense.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 05:13 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


I have a couple of questions.

Islam women are veiled - is that true in your democracy? If so, that is no democracy.

Do your people kill others? If so, that is a sick country.

Do your people live and let others live according to their own beliefs?
If not, you are not a democracy.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by oozyism
 


Islam women are veiled - is that true in your democracy? If so, that is no democracy.



I'm sorry - how is this democracy?

You're not going to come close to winning at this debate trying to prove your backward religion is acceptable to anyone with an IQ over 70 as a "nation" or "democracy." But you know what - I'll play.

Islam(ic) - proper English, please - lends credibility to your argument. Islamic women are veiled because they are treated as second rate citizens. Do they have the option to choose whether or not they get to walk around in veils?

Let's look at the base definition of "democracy" - shall we?

The Webster's (an English dictionary - I suggest you invest in one if you want to keep debating with me) - says:

Democracy (n.) - 1A a government by the people; esp: rule of the majority 1B a government (note that word "government" - not "religion") in which the SUPREME power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held FREE (FREE) elections 2 a political unit that has a democratic GOVERNMENT (again, not "religion")...

So, just based off of the basic definition of what a democracy is, you can already start to see yours and the OP's argument starting to slip. You are trying to posit that a religion can be effectively used as a democratic government. Let's slip into the world of fantasy for a moment and ignore that a religion alone is a horrid idea for a government and let's look at your silly mythology for a bit, shall we?

Islam is based off of the Qu'ran (which I'm sure was forced down your throat at some point - and for that, I'm sorry - Christians tried that with me) which is essentially the ramblings of a 32 year old epileptic man that barbarians to this day burn stuff down and kill people over if his name is mentioned in the slightest of negative connotations. So - let's assume that your "democracy" was based off of the Qu'ran, crayon - whatever. Your old book. Everyone has an old book it seems, so we'll just refer to it as your "book." OP states that your book is essentially a "constitution" for all intents and purposes.

A free, democratic nation allows for it's constituents to coexist and work to better themselves in as free an environment as possible. Granted, there are still laws in place in order to prevent utter chaos, so we'll leave that bit in. The great thing about us "horrible westerners" is that we took religion away from our governments a long time ago. A very logical move since none of you can prove anything whatsoever. Period. Christians will yell until they are blue in the face over their contradiction-filled bible and you... haha- you guys amuse me because if someone confronts you on discrepancies - hell with yelling, let's go burn a bunch of # down. Kudos on that bit of medieval thinking.
So let's say that our mythical nation of Islamistan was established where it was reported that a "democracy" was in place...

And let's look at the way you all act right now.

1) Women are veiled.

2) Elections are either rigged or people are intimidated into voting for one person -OR- HELL, if it looks like the unfavorable party is going to win - we'll just blow him and his family to hell.

www.alarabiya.net...

3) No freedom of religion. If you don't believe in Islam our book says to kill you all!!!

answers.yahoo.com...

4) The Middle East isn't exactly what I'd call a futuristic or highly developed nation.

aphs.worldnomads.com...


So let's imagine that one day - some of your women decided they didn't want to wear their veils anymore and wanted to wear - I don't know - jeans and t-shirts. So they decide that they're going to take off their veils and wear some of that "horrible western" clothing. Well, based off of your current activities:

www.timesonline.co.uk...

vodpod.com...

www.compassdirect.org...

Seems that the "vote" - if one were even held before the rocks were grabbed - wouldn't really go in their favor, would it? Even if they were a majority? But that's also assuming that they were equal in our mythical country. That seems to be another issue with you guys. Your women.

Before you come onto my ATS and start spouting your religious propaganda to the people who come here, why don't you go do something to prove your book is right? If you can't, take your "Islam or die" crap elsewhere. I spent 2 years in the middle east cleaning some of your more radical types off of the face of the Earth and I wouldn't mind doing it again. I HATE religious zealots.


Cheers.





[edit on 15-7-2010 by mf_luder]



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 06:04 AM
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Originally posted by mf_luder
Qu'ran which is essentially the ramblings of a 32 year old epileptic man


Arrogance much?





Leave Me alone [to deal] with him whom I have created alone,
and to whom I have granted resources vast,
and children as [love's] witnesses,
and to whose life I gave so wide a scope:
and yet, he greedily desires that I give yet more!
Nay, verily, it is against Our messages that he knowingly, stubbornly sets himself.
I shall constrain him to endure a painful uphill climb!
For he thought and he plotted;
And woe to him! How he plotted!
Yea, Woe to him; How he plotted!
Then he looked round;
Then he frowned and he scowled;
And in the end he turned his back [on Our message], and gloried in his arrogance.
Then said he: "This is nothing but magic, derived from of old;
"This is nothing but the word of a mortal!"
Soon will I cast him into Hell-Fire!
And what will explain to thee what Hell-Fire is?
Naught doth it permit to endure, and naught doth it leave alone!
Darkening and changing the colour of man!
Over it are Nineteen.

(Qur'an, 74:1-30)




[edit on 7/15/2010 by skajkingdom]



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 06:08 AM
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reply to post by skajkingdom
 


I'm sorry - supporting an argument in a debate over government by quoting scripture is not a good way to make any kind of rational point. Get some facts and not words from an old book and try again.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by mf_luder
reply to post by skajkingdom
 


words from an old book


It is remarks like this^ that I quoted the verses above for.
He knew how you were gonna react.

[edit on 7/15/2010 by skajkingdom]



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by skajkingdom
It is remarks like this^ that I quoted the verses above for.
He knew how you were gonna react.


Any book that speaks of "Hell Fire" and appeals to conformity through the use of Fear does not sound very worthy to me. There is nothing democratic about Sharia Law as it is a Theocracy. The rules and laws of the Quran are used as the rules and laws of society.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 08:57 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Are you for real?
Every mob is a democracy, there is nothing inherently holy about democracy.
Democracy is majority ruling anything they want, majority of madmen and lunatics if that's how things pan out. Would your gushing about democracy be so absolute if you were outnumbered by jews? I think then you'd be all for minority rights, ohh yesss



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 09:29 AM
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Hi, you must be new to ATS. :-]

Where to begin...

1. If anyone has a right to choose their religion then every religion is a democracy, not just Islam.

2. There is no number 1 religion...


( : Peace! : )

PS. About the veil thing, yeah... that's not originally part of the Islamic religion. In fact, the Qu'ran says men and women are equals. Whereas in the Christian Bible, it says women serve men. If someone attacks my post with a verse from the Bible, remember: Jesus Christ/ Muhammad accepted and loved everyone --enemy or friend.

Personally, I love everyone for who they are regardless of their religion!

[edit on 7/15/10 by ohsnaptruth]



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by ohsnaptruth
 


I don't have to use the bible to attack you. I will fight fire with fire.

By their works you shall know them. Action speaks louder than words.

You said ,



In fact, the Qu'ran says men and women are equals.


The koran says ,




Women have rights that are similar to men, but men are "a degree above them." 2:228





Men are in charge of women, because Allah made men to be better than women. Refuse to have sex with women from whom you fear rebellion, and scourge them. 4:34




All married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. 4:24


Mohammed loved his enemies!?

Where do you people come up with these fantasies.You bring shame on jesus just by putting that unrepentant , false prophet/bandit/lecher/pedophile as an equal in the same sentence. Show me where is muhammed's love and acceptance in these surahs.




Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the infidels wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. 9:5


I see many ignorant , trusting westerners falling into their ambushes.




Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them, and He will heal the breasts of folk who are believers. 9:14

As for oozyism who claims to follow only the koran; a clever ploy by muslims seeking moral high ground , to try to distance themselvs from the abhorant things we hear in the hadiths , sunnah and sirat that have influenced shariah law and islamic culture up until now.You see the hadith and sunnah actually condemn the prophet and his first followers , they contain mention of surahs that were left out and muhammed ordering assassinations.

Here is what the koran itself prescribes for unbelievers especialy jews and christians-




Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute (Jizyah) readily, being brought low. 9:29


Notice in this surah and it's context , no attack was made , only to disbelieve is grounds for a muslim to fight you. . And when they attack you and you fight back you have fallen in their trap and what do they say?, "they , are persecuting us" , "they are islamaphobes". But they are not persecuting anyone are they , they are not X-ophobes themselves , are they (place any religion in place of x)?. Again why do muslims think it is right to extort money from people over a matter of free choice. It can't be free if one choice bears a penalty which they will impose.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Islam is a theocracy....It really doesn't change Just because You define it as a Democracy...It is not.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by Dark Ghost

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 




Plus person can choose to be a citizen of democracy X or become citizen of other system without any problems. Democracy cannot exist without separation of powers.


1. When I say Democracy, in most people's . it means people having the right to choose.

2. Islam allows everyone to choose.

3. Simple, best Democracy out there.

4. Yes you can leave Islam if you wish.


Sorry, I got the giggles after reading number 4. Care to explain what happens to those who "choose" to leave Islam?

[edit on 14/7/2010 by Dark Ghost]


I did leave islam. Had to cut all ties with my "companions" at the time. I was given two days to reconsider my 'bad' choice, or become fair game.

I used my two days to disappear.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by RizeorDie

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 




Plus person can choose to be a citizen of democracy X or become citizen of other system without any problems. Democracy cannot exist without separation of powers.


1. When I say Democracy, in most people's . it means people having the right to choose.

2. Islam allows everyone to choose.

3. Simple, best Democracy out there.

4. Yes you can leave Islam if you wish.


hehe, and what exactly are the consequences for number 4?


you go to hell. simple. just like any other religion.

however nobody on this planet earth has the right to execute you if you leave, this crap was created by extremist muslims in saudi arbia which then was intentionally spread to pakistan and afghanistan.

you need to start reading!

[edit on 14-7-2010 by RizeorDie]


Yeah, you go to hell alright, and there are those happy to hasten that trip, all for their beloved allah.

He needs to start reading? You need to start living!



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by Dark Ghost

Originally posted by skajkingdom
Well, read what I wrote.

I said, if someone was TRULY a muslim, it would simply be stupid of him to leave islam, AS IN: when you have all the good, why leave it?

It wouldn't make sense.

So, if these guys who call themself "ex-muslims" left Islam, then, according to logic, they were NEVER IN ISLAM in th first place.

They might have been born in a "muslim" family, but they themself weren't truly muslim.

*Yawn*. The whole "they are not TRUE Muslims" routine. This excuse is made by people of all religions when nut-job Extremists put into action their own skewed interpretation of the Holy Book they follow.

Essentially, you are saying that only those who fully submit to Islam are true Muslims. That works rather nicely to excuse the actions of the Extremists that commit violence in the name of religion! In that case, the Crusades were not done by true Christians. Please don't call the soldiers Christian because you are misunderstanding what a true Christian is!

[edit on 14/7/2010 by Dark Ghost]


What he's saying is like saying (from the islamic perspective) that someone who was born 'other than muslim', such as myself, is a nutjob, but if he chooses islam, why, then he was never REALLY a non-islamic nutjob at all! He was ALWAYS a muslim. BUT if he was born into it, and then he decides to leave it, as I did, why then he was never REALLY a muslim at all!

Gotta ask you, Skaj, double standard much? Can't have it both ways.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by skajkingdom

So, according to you ISLAM = MIDDLE EAST?

I AM FROM ALBANIA. That is EUROPE FYI.



Albania was never 'really' in Europe, by your own standards.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by skajkingdom
reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


Being muslim means submitting your will to God.

God says if you kill one innocent person it is as if ypu killed all of mankind.

Suppose now you kill a person, against Gods command.
So, you are not submitting your will to God.

Now, if "submitting your will to God" = muslim

then

NOT "submitting your will to God" = ?


Correction: submitting your will to a particular god, in the case of muslims 'allah', who is decidedly NOT the god of christians and jews. Muslims just tried to hijack the christian and jewish god, and re-format him to suit themselves, in a merger with al-Lah, Lord of the Ka'aba.

Trivia question: look at any islamic flag, and tell me what the crescent moon really represents. For bonus points, tell me what the star represents, too.



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