Socialism Without Guns Is Impossible

Moving from a capitalist society to a socialist society may be impossible without the government owning all the guns.

But I think of the Native Americans, where the concept of 'ownership' did not apply. Materialism was minimal and those family-like tribes were the epitome of a perfect socialist community.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Socialism always fails, [...]

LOL, tell that to Scandinavians....

Human are not ants.

You have to accept the multiple aspect of human being : the community " and / or " self being.

There is no reel being if there is "freedom of the self" does not exist.

The capacity for the people to get rid of tyranny is in the HUMAN RIGHTS !

And one of your freedom : is to protect yourself and other ... this is NOT just a freedom : THIS IS THE LAW OF LIFE ITSELF : you must survive in any circumstances.

Violence exist everywhere so 1) you must learn where it come from ( from 1) the state : the systemic violence : who killed much more than any people with weapons : this systemic violence create other loop of violence 2) from poverty, urbanism : because we have to share )

: en.wikipedia.org...

You want to get rid of violence : just find the root of evil : it is no the tool that is violence ...

On more simple thing : you don't need weapons to violent, or to kill.

[edit on 14-7-2010 by psychederic]

I've been following this thread. Fun stuff.

Anytime a government system has the ability to thwart changes by the majority of citizens. It's not good. Well, nuff said.

The ideal system is to allow all people to fo qo about their business and succeed and no one is harmed. Good luck with that.

Originally posted by rival
This is true, but in our country the government has guns as well.
And they have better guns, plus the moral high-ground (for intent
and purpose).

The easiest way to collapse the present system is to quit feeding the machine.
Unfortunately, the easiest way is also nearly impossible as it requires
tens of millions of participants, many of whom will become fiscal martyrs.

How to do it?

Organize 10% of taxed workers and owners of small businesses to refuse
to pay income taxes for themselves and/or their workers....

great point, and the smartest and easiest thing to do. If there was a massive movement towards refusal to feed the beast, it will starve.

of course it will use every tactic to get it's nourishment (threats, force, pleading) but to stay strong until it's weakened. in so many ways, we are paying for our own enslavement.

starve the beast, and the parasites will go to a different host. if this mentality goes global, where will the parasites have to feed on ?
themselves.

then we can change a few things that are important. limit congress/senate to "5yrs and out" terms. we've got 350million people in this country alone, we've got enough citizens to rotate through the seats.

I say a pure socialist society can exist without guns. When government is honestly ran by the people, for them. Then there is no need to force them.

yes until we all stop paying taxes to repay our governments debt that we didnt create , we cant be free from any system

we need to show the governments we are smart enough and grown up and send them our notices of intent , that we no longer wish to pay taxes under the statutes !

Given that socialism necessitates vicious unmitigated brutal violence be directed against those who are the most prosperous in a given society, it stands to reason that without guns, such a system would be unable to maintain itself.

Watch out for the vicious Norwegians, Danes and Swedes, they will get all Viking on your prosperity.

And anyway what country in this world would not have guns, especially when your neighbor has them?

Love seeing people writing about things they have no clue about.
I used to live in a socialist country and we were allowed to legally posess guns.

Keep on speculating though..

[edit on 14-7-2010 by Kenan2]

Oh dear...

The Rednecks have stopped taking their medication(s) again I see.....

Freedom will always be an ideology in any given society. Socialism or capitalism, there'll always be someone to disagree with some of the concepts of it.

In few words, a society needs reinforcement to function properly. Whatever you're about to do, a gun on your head makes you behave and think before.

Originally posted by Bottom

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Socialism always fails, [...]

LOL, tell that to Scandinavians....

Scandinavian states are not socialistic. They are capitalist social democracies. Thats a big difference.

In fact, pure anarchic capitalism without any government protection or social programs is as bad as pure socialism or communism. We need to seek a middle ground here, as in scandinavia - the best of both worlds.

I can't help but shake my head at the 'opt out' crowd.
They don't want to be taxed or contribute to society. I am quite certain the same people would not think twice before calling 911 when their house is on fire.

reply to post by mnemeth1


The police force and all branches of the military work for and are an establishment of the government.

History has shown that totalitarian socialist states can and will utilize these forces to control the populace.

Your proposal, therefore, is to remove guns from the possession of both the federal (military) and state (police) armed services, as I assume you are not suggesting that the Senators or House of Representatives would take up arms against three hundred million Americans in such a scenario.

A military or police force which lacks guns would be unable to keep the peace or accomplish much of anything at all, though I suppose you could make a case for the UK police force, which generally does not use guns.

In the absence of a strong military or police, the country's resources would be up for grabs and we would either descend into a state of anarchy or be quickly overtaken and conquered by a foreign government that actually DOES use guns.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
That pretty much sums up America doesnt it?

Where's my opt-out?

Without a way to opt-out that isnt death or imprisonment there can't ever be freedom.

There is a way out. Expatriate from US citizenship & become a state national. This is the rightful status of people of the several states.

www.notmygovernment.us...

www.notmygovernment.us...

This is not Redemption or UCC 'remedies' or sovereign citizen bunk.

Originally posted by Maslo

In fact, pure anarchic capitalism without any government protection or social programs is as bad as pure socialism or communism.

Wrong

Unless you consider having government guns pointed at your head a good thing along with depressed economic growth and inflation.

Inflation and economic depression come entirely from the central bank.

all you sosialism haters have been brainwashed to belive that sosialism is the same as kommunism. you couldent bee more wrong. im from norway and im a sosialist to the day i die. its the most incluesiv way to make life god for everyone ( not just ritch people). the US way of thinking is me me me me and my self, and why should i share whit anybody. but the sosialism way of thinking is, how can everybody have a good life. and how could we shere the mony so everybody have enough

reply to post by mnemeth1


Yes a "socialist state". But free people were socialists, long before the "state". All free people are.

Pirates:

There are contemporary records that many pirates placed a portion of any captured money into a central fund that was used to compensate the injuries sustained by the crew. Lists show standardised payments of 600 pieces of eight ($156,000 in modern currency) for the loss of a leg down to 100 pieces ($26,800) for loss of an eye. Often all of these terms were agreed upon and written down by the pirates, but these articles could also be used as incriminating proof that they were outlaws.

Pirates readily accepted outcasts from traditional societies, perhaps easily recognizing kindred spirits, and they were known to welcome them into the pirate fold. For example as many as 40% of the pirate vessels' crews were slaves liberated from captured slavers. Such practices within a pirate crew were tenuous, however, and did little to mitigate the brutality of the pirate's way of life.

Native Americans:

"As Columbus wrote of the Arawak (before murdering and enslaving them), "They are so ingenuous and free with all they have, that no one would believe it who has not seen it... Of anything they possess, if it be asked of them, they never say no; on the contrary, they invite you to share it and show as much love as if their hearts went with it..."

I don't want to hear "pirates were evil". Why don't you take a look at Columbus. Or at those human machines that designed the slave ships. Search for "slave ship". You will find - that they were designed with that purpose. By machines.

reply to post by mnemeth1

Wrong Unless you consider having government guns pointed at your head a good thing along with depressed economic growth and inflation. Inflation and economic depression come entirely from the central bank.

I am against central bank, I would prefer a free banking system. Government social programs do not need central bank at all, nor do they cause inflation if you dont inject new money into the economy.

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by Maslo

In fact, pure anarchic capitalism without any government protection or social programs is as bad as pure socialism or communism.

Wrong

Unless you consider having government guns pointed at your head a good thing along with depressed economic growth and inflation.

Inflation and economic depression come entirely from the central bank.

I said government protection (police, military, antitrust bureaus, consumer protection..) and social programs (safety net against poverty). NOT central bank or government manipulation of free markets.

Are you familiar with the philosophy of classical liberalism? en.wikipedia.org...

Government, as explained by Adam Smith had only three functions: protection against foreign invaders, protection of citizens from wrongs committed against them by other citizens, and building and maintaining public institutions and public works that the private sector could not profitably provide. Classical liberals extended protection of the country to protection of overseas markets through armed intervention. Protection of individuals against wrongs normally meant protection of private property and enforcement of contracts, and the suppression of trade unions and the Chartist movement. Public works included a stable currency, standard weights and measures and support of roads, canals, harbors, railways, and postal and other communications services.

Altrough we should try to minimize the power of government, it has its foundation and tasks which are needed and no private entity is able to do them well.

Unless you consider having government guns pointed at your head a good thing..

If government (police, military) wont have guns, it would be easily overpowered by mafia and you will have criminal guns pointed at your head. Anarchy does not work - anarchy always lasts only for short time before the most powerful force in anarchic society overpowers the others and establishes totatitarian dictatorship.