Why Capitalism Fails

reply to post by gncnew


Communism is a state capitalism :

The communism financial crack was in the 1990 :

Twenty years later it is the "us capitalism empire" that crack ...

OK ... Twenty years : you win , you last longer ...

Can we try to be smarter and find A better solution ?

Or do you want china to be the next usa ?

[edit on 14-7-2010 by projectvxn]

Capitalism is a fail

To all those who have been fed with capitalist propaganda, try to see outside the box.

Use some imagination and some real hard facts

It is easy to say: hey just work hard and you can be rich too
in reality it's increasingly harder and harder to even make ends meets working hard.
I know plenty of people, working their ass off, 50-60 hours a week, barely seeing their families and far from being filthy rich.
The fact is that living costs have gone up, as if people are trying really hard to keep the poor poor and the rich rich. Especially medical bills, taxes and poisonous banks, taking a big hit at hardworking people.

It is easy for those already rich to foot a medical bill of 10,000 bucks!

The fact is, there are elites in places and their entourage and families don't need to break a sweat to make millions.

And how to they make their millions? On the back on honest hardworking people. And they use their powers to keep their slaves poor with little prospect.

On top of that they feed you with lies and propaganda.

And don't let me get started on the education and college degree scams.

WORKING HARD, STUDYING HARD DOES NOT ENTITLES TO FORTUNE.

Stop telling you that and face the facts. The only way to become rich is by exploiting and making people's life miserable.

Originally posted by Enf0rc3r
Difference here is that in real life u dont get a liberal professor failing you automatically. In real life, if u work hard, u will make money.

Such an easy opinion to have. "Hey, he's poor, so he didn't try hard enough."

It's perfectly possible to work hard, invest your blood, sweat & money into an enterprise and have it fail miserably. Then you can't start over because you're in debt up to your eyeballs.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


you can read my response here in my new thread. www.abovetopsecret.com...

BTW OP, your link redirects you to what you wrote here on ATS, not a real source.

reply to post by mnemeth1


That statement was not thought out very well. Many many people are simply born into these situations. That is what people do, make sure their family gets the best, so at the highest levels you have enormous amounts of nepotism. The man who is working on a heavy machine all day building freeways, buildings, and much more works just as hard, if not harder than the man who moved a bunch of money around on his computer making sure it's secure and hoarding it for him and his greedy family.

Utter crap.

Second line.

reply to post by TheOracle


PS.

It's nice to see your posts again. Haven't seen ya for a while.

[edit on 14-7-2010 by projectvxn]

Originally posted by theotherguy

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by ANOK

 

I would love to live in a society where workers have power over the market, as I know to my core that that would be a much more fair system. But to realize that, workers must control the means of production.

... What kind of system is that called?

What you're referring to is a cooperative.... A cooperative would be nice.

No amount of ism's and ocracies will save us from our selfs.

The form of government we have in this country today is fundamentally socialistic. We have social programs for everything. Most notably we have an educational program to bring the curriculum around to what the national educational authorities want on behalf of the corporations.

So If we stop and look at it we can agree that our socialism is not geared benefit the people, but rather the multinational corporations

This is pushed along by afferent nationalism. "whats good for Ford Motors, is good for America" Our country, right or wrong, we are going to take our form of social nationalism under the guise of democracy to some other country, and if they dont agree, we will simply invade and occupy.

The form of government we are operating under today is not a real democracy, if there ever could be one. It might come as a shock to most when you consider that the fact that our national socialist model is relatively the same as the German Nazi model. In fact the Nazi party was the national socialist German workers party "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" they shorten it to Nazi

That of course was a form of fascism. The man who coined the term fascism was Benito Mussolini in Italy. But Benito Mussolini him self said that fascism really wasnt the proper term, and that it really should have been correctly called corporatism "the model used in capitalism", and that is simply when you have the corporations running the country and controlling the people.

This is what we saw in fascist Italy, this is what we saw in Nazi Germany. But this difference is this, in those countries before world war 2 the state took over the corporations, in the united states today the corporations have taken over the state.

The end result is the same. Capitalism is fascism with a fancy name.

That's cool, but the professor is confusing capitalism with corporatism.

Originally posted by Enf0rc3r
Difference here is that in real life u dont get a liberal professor failing you automatically. In real life, if u work hard, u will make money. Simple concept that has made America the power house it is today. The professor was a complete idiot, ad used a biased model of capitalism based on his political views to hammer home a point that some people aren't good enough in his world to succeed.

Hmm.. I've worked hard my whole life, but I have no equity, a car worth maybe $1,000, and $50,000 of student loan debt. I'm still working hard... my take-home pay as a math and science teacher is about $1175 a month after income tax, social security, and student loan payments.

Your assumption that "working hard" = money is wrong in this country. There are huge parasites sucking the wealth off the poor. It's government, banks, and owners of the corporations.

If they had it their way, we'd all be living in company-owned dorms, eating the same filth they feed animals, and working 16 hours a day with no pay until it kills us. That's your profit motive, baby.

Originally posted by projectvxn
Churchill on Socialism:

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery

Abraham Lincoln:

“Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”

“To secure to each laborer the whole product of his labor as nearly as possible is a worthy object of any good government.”

Thomas Paine:

"There are, in every country, some magnificent charities established by individuals. It is, however, but little that any individual can do, when the whole extent of the misery to be relieved is considered. He may satisfy his conscience, but not his heart. He may give all that he has, and that all will relieve but little. It is only by organizing civilization upon such principles as to act like a system of pulleys, that the whole weight of misery can be removed. "


"Taking it then for granted that no person ought to be in a worse condition when born under what is called a state of civilization, than he would have been had he been born in a state of nature, and that civilization ought to have made, and ought still to make, provision for that purpose, it can only be done by subtracting from property a portion equal in value to the natural inheritance it has absorbed.

"Various methods may be proposed for this purpose, but that which appears to be the best is at the moment that property is passing by the death of one person to the possession of another. In this case, the bequeather gives nothing: the receiver pays nothing. The only matter to him is that the monopoly of natural inheritance, to which there never was a right, begins to cease in his person. A generous man would not wish it to continue, and a just man will rejoice to see it abolished.

...

"It is not charity but a right, not bounty but justice, that I am pleading for. The present state of civilization is as odious as it is unjust. It is absolutely the opposite of what it should be, and it is necessary that a revolution should be made in it. The contrast of affluence and wretchedness continually meeting and offending the eye, is like dead and living bodies chained together. Though I care as little about riches as any man, I am a friend to riches because they are capable of good."

Last I heard, Thomas Paine was a paragon of the modern Tea Party movement...perhaps they'd do well to read his writings rather than take Glenn Beck's word for what he stood for.

Originally posted by 30_seconds

Originally posted by Enf0rc3r
Difference here is that in real life u dont get a liberal professor failing you automatically. In real life, if u work hard, u will make money. Simple concept that has made America the power house it is today. The professor was a complete idiot, ad used a biased model of capitalism based on his political views to hammer home a point that some people aren't good enough in his world to succeed.

Hmm.. I've worked hard my whole life, but I have no equity, a car worth maybe $1,000, and $50,000 of student loan debt. I'm still working hard... my take-home pay as a math and science teacher is about $1175 a month after income tax, social security, and student loan payments.

Your assumption that "working hard" = money is wrong in this country. There are huge parasites sucking the wealth off the poor. It's government, banks, and owners of the corporations.

If they had it their way, we'd all be living in company-owned dorms, eating the same filth they feed animals, and working 16 hours a day with no pay until it kills us. That's your profit motive, baby.

It's like religion - if you pray for healing and don't get it, then you aren't righteous enough.

So, if you don't get wealthy, then you just haven't tried hard enough.

America's official religion isn't Christianity - it's Capitalism.

Originally posted by MojosGhost
No amount of ism's and ocracies will save us from our selfs.

Have you tried Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Ragism, Tagism, This-ism, that-ism, or Ism-ism?

Then you don't know that for certain.

What true laissez-faire capitalism gives us:

The Spillmeter

Everyone on this board is arguing over capitalism vs socialism when the reality is that they're BOTH bad ideas, and here's why:

In capitalism, there is a generally fixed money supply. A worker is born into this world with NO money at all, and he has to compete and fight with other laborers to try and gain this money from someone who already has it. The person who has the money has an advantage over the money-less, and this advantage is exploited: the person without the money works for the person with the money so they can get some. The person with the money is assumed to have worked for their money too, but this isn't usually the case with the wealthy. They always only pay people for doing the things that increase their wealth. In other words, the value of the money they dish out to their labor force will always be less than the value of the money they bring in from that labor. It's pimping workers.

So this fixed money supply enables those who have wealth to further consolidate wealth, and by this process the working class gets more desperate over time, until after a number of decades the vast majority of people are poor, and there is nothing left but a very few very very wealthy people left in the world.

The problem is how money comes into existence, or I should say how it doesn't come into existence. It doesn't come into existence whenever value is produced. If it did, a worker wouldn't have to go to work for a master who has money... they could go to work for themselves. As soon as you create something of value, you put it on the market, and then the market decides how much money should come into existence for it. By this system, there would be almost no unemployment, and it would put an end to the stranglehold the wealthy have always exercised over the poor. No longer would we be forced to run the world the way the rich want us to because we need their money or we starve. In a way, we enslave ourselves by always doing what they want, because they have the money to tell us what to do.

In a publicly traded corporation, the people – including the CEO – are all employees of the institution with few if any individual rights. They are paid to serve the institution at its pleasure. The people are required by law to leave their personal values at the door, and are subject to dismissal without recourse at a moment’s notice. It is the institution, not individuals, that count here. And all these people, who could be spending their life’s energy doing something worthwhile, are instead spending eight hours a day, five days a week (sometimes more) doing what the corporation wants done, because the people have been told that they require the corporation’s money so that they may live.

This is an institution of enormous power governed by absentee owners and unaccountable managers for the business of converting the life energy of people and nature into short-term financial gain for already-wealthy shareholders, without regard to human or natural consequences.
The publicly traded corporation is a gigantic pool of money with an artificial personality required by law to behave like a sociopath. It is the modern equivalent of unaccountable and sociopathic kings of the past.

From the minute we are born we are told that we have to pay for our lives, and to do that you have to have money. The problem is that somebody else has got it, and you have to get it from them. So you’re going to do what they tell you to, because if you don’t, you’ll starve. So you get a job, and you become the instrument of exercising someone else’s will, not your own. That’s slavery.

If we could decide to do what we feel we were born to do, and if we could always make a living doing it without trying to find a "job" from an "employer" then you take out that nasty influence of corporations and the rich turning the world into their selfish profit machine. Humanity will begin to work for the benefit of humanity, not the benefit of corporations.

And socialism? Well, that's the money problem again, except everybody is poor.

[edit on 14-7-2010 by 30_seconds]

On the one hand, the analogy in the OP's anecdote is inaccurate, because it assumes an unchanging set of grades from A to F. In a "capitalist" system, assuming that a good business plan is used, the success of the first test-takers would produce a profit for the professor, so he could afford to give out more A's, B's, and so forth on the next exam to take advantage of the large demand. On the third exam he could give out even more passing grades, and so on.

Given an infinite number of exams, this model would produce a grade for each student which is precisely proportional to how well they did on their tests, i.e. how hard they studied, assuming that the grades are curved. If the grades are not curved then eventually everybody would get an A. Either way it's a much prettier picture than the one painted in the OP.

... On the other hand, those who are saying that in America if you work hard then you get money are missing out on a lot of blatant problems in this country. I have a friend who works harder than me or anybody I know, yet he can barely make all his payments because, like most of working-class America, he's trapped in debt payments for his college degree that will take him a decade to pay off. Meanwhile, I have uncles who hardly do a scrap of hard work from day to day because they were simply born into a rich family.

The sad truth is that you need money in order to make money. I don't know what the solution is, but it's not socialism, and I'm pretty sure it's not an unregulated free market, either.

reply to post by mothershipzeta


Socialism is not what Lincoln was advocating. What he was saying is that if you work in this country you should keep the fruits of your labor. Not have it taxed out, or stolen by a less than ethical government.

For the everybody that will read these lines :

William Blum : is sick of this thing called "patriotism" !



[edit on 14-7-2010 by psychederic]