2012: Is it worthy? No really guys

Some of you know that I recently had a sort of let down, like a wave of skepticism and realism has reached me.
I enjoyed 2009 as a year of research into 2012. Before that summer I didn't know much about 2012.
But recently it was not so enjoying.

Whenever you try to talk about some big 2012 issues ( whatever they are ) with people you usually experience this:

- Derision
- Misunderstandings
- Denial, meaning they won't be available to even discuss
- Opening of a scientific book to discuss how some theories aren't possible in the real world ( Nibiru, for example, I would agree. Never been interested actually in anything dealing with Nibiru issue ).
- Name calling
- Rage

This is a call for 2012 believers, and I know there are many in this website.
IS IT WORTHY? Why should you risk a social isolation for all of this stuff?

I agree with those guys that say this year is weird. Okay, is weird , so what?
I also see how some guys write and what they write seems to be taken from a fantasy book, I mean, like the ones for kids. Not science- fiction. FANTASY.

What do you really expect from 2012 phenomenon/ myth/ theories ?
Why do you want to believe in these things?

I cannot even imagine what would happen to this world if nothing happens in 2012. I know some people are in need for something. But one day you may have to deal with a non- event.
Once again...

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Zagari]

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Zagari]

I personally dont believe in the 2012 scenario that plays out in the 2012 movie. I do however believe that we're in Earth changing times, either due to the sun waking up or our position in the solar system or even both these factors.
I dont see this big disaster event that's going to kill millions in one swoop, but the increase in earthquakes, volcano's and supposed global warming may come to a climax in 2012 and this is what we'll experience. A slow graduation in the Earth becoming slightly more volatile, nothing more.

CaF

reply to post by Zagari


Sorry i am having a little trouble in understanding what you are trying to say is it you feel let down because the economy did not crash

Just curious how old are you

I can not understand why you just don't let it go you was wrong move on why start a new thread babbling about a none event.

As for 2012 who knows will it be just another year probably but should be some good reading on ATS

Thankyou

I personally think the whole 2012 thing is intriguing, but utterly false. It's a great piece of fiction to occupy ones time with.

I don't mean to sound insulting, but yanno I have a calendar here that ends on December 31, 2010. Oh no, the world might end because this calendar doesn't go beyond that date!

I know, I'm trivializing this to some extent, and that there's more details, but I wonder what's going to happen to all these die hard believers when we're celebrating New Years for 2013.

I predict it will then be "2012 doesn't actually come to pass in 2012, it's REALLY 2013!".

End of the world predictions, in case anyone hasn't noticed, never seem to come to pass. Why is that do you think?

In the interest of promoting discussion, let me present some middle ground here. What if the fact that we know about what could potentially happen in 2012 changes the outcome itself? In other words, since we know about it, we've unconsciously already changed the future, simply by knowing. Hey, it's just as possible as the world ending in 2012.

I see an economic apocalypse coming soon, and possibly a major war (the two would probably go together), and for reasons having nothing to do with "prophecy" and everything to do with the way the world looks right now, I wouldn't be surprised if it all went down in 2012.

But none of this is prophecy; it's prediction. And it's not caused by gods or aliens, but human stupidity.

If it does happen in 2012 and coincides with all the prophecies, that is a bit eerie. That's about the only thing that makes me think maybe there's something to the prophecies after all.

This whole 2012 thing has been a mystery since is began as a whisper.
And as ridiculous as is seems, do you really want to just turn your back on it?

For starters,.. although some of the sources may seem sketchy ,.. they do carry some very interesting information.
Nostradamus and the most recent Edgar Cayce, both visionaries saw a very destructive future for this timeline,. and if one chooses to look into their accuracy record as vague as you might call it,.. it was none the less,.. accurate as a prediction could be.
The Mayans, ancient Chinese historical writings both,.. for some reason have a end date to their calender,.
The Hopi Indians made their dire predictions for our future
The bible,.. the most well know book on earth tells of destructive endings slated for what appears to be the present time,..
There are more if you care to research,..there are hundreds of books on this information.
One thing to remember skeptics, is what could possibly have been the agenda of the ancient seers and writers of such information.
unlike today where the greed is the driver,. maybe the directive to them was simply a warning to humanity..

Look at our world today,.. it has deteriorated socially,..
If you give yourself a history lesson and read about what happened to the earth and it's inhabitants, you might find that it came to a climax of evil and degradation and there was a reset of a sort,.. kinda resembles our current times or age if you will..

I recommend not dismissing the theories of 2012 simply cause is Sounds like rubbish or it is just another Y2K,..do some research,.. go to a bookstore and read.. or surf the web..
Take the blinders off for a while..


[edit on 13-7-2010 by Lil Drummerboy]

Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy
This whole 2012 thing has been a mystery since is began as a whisper.
And as ridiculous as is seems, do you really want to just turn your back on it?

What would you have us do? If 2012 did, indeed, result in some catastrophic change in the world or universe, there's just about 0 we're going to be able to do about it in just over 2 years. If that were the case (I dunno, sun flares or whatever the popular theory is), I'd rather spend these 2 years enjoying life with my wife and friends, not spending it running scared, hoarding food and water, in the slim hope that I'd survive.

Mind you, that's different than just "not caring" about what could potentially happen, but I would suggest that are many happenings going on right *now* that have the potential of being equally as destructive, like Iran and North Korea having nuclear weapons.

Why would you freak out and put so much effort into "surviving" something that there's very little proof of common sense to support, but ignore the real world danger we're in right now? This seems very selective to me. It's more dramatic to be concerned about some supposed Mayan prophecy than it is to be concerned about the state of the world as it is now.

I actually wonder if it's possible for 2012 to be a self fulfilling prophecy, whereby so many people who are afraid of 2012 actually *cause* the instability that brings about a catastrophe.

reply to post by Melen
Great response Melen,.
let me answer like this,.
would there be anything one could do about an end if in fact it is inevitable,. no,. However ,I guess it is then up to the individual to decide how to live their life.
I ask nothing of the skeptics but, if you will put forth the energy to be skeptic at least prove it wrong.. rather than sit sideline and rant
Also,. for myself.. I choose to know about what may be coming,.as I am one who likes to be prepared for whatever that is who I am,.
Many people are not wired this way,. many people leave their house thinking everyday will be the same,.. often very unprepared for whatever could put them in harms way, when a simple forethought may have been able to change an end result.
EX: Your downtown in a bad neighborhood somewhere, and your cell is dead and you just got a flat tire, the urban situation is not good, but there is enough daylight to get the tire changed.. problem is You don't know how to change the tire,.. keep in mind ,.. bad neighborhood.
Point here is, had you educated yourself in the most simple mechanics info you could be outta there in 20 mins top before it got dark..
But so many people choose not to KNOW things cause they think life will always go on as usual.

The messages givin to us may just be a warning or may not even happen at all, regardless I choose to know the potential concerns.

another real situation: I spend allot of time outdoors, often in the western part of the country,.. I have walked among rattlesnakes, black widows and scorpions.. I took the time to know the species cause they could harm me in a very bad way.. not knowing anything could keep me from surviving.
No need to be scared maybe just know how to handle a situation,..
And if simply accepting the end when it might be unnecessary,.. well that certainly a personal choice.

I personally think that nothing special will happen in 2012. Still, it's pretty fun to discuss it with my friends and family. If something catastrophic does happen, we won't be able to stop it, so why even bother...? Either way, it'll be awesome to see how it will turn out. I'm looking forward to 2012

I think that's where some of the communication issues come into play. I don't think I need to provide proof that says that 2012 predictions are wrong. Since the whole 2012 craze started, there's been very little real evidence supporting the conclusions people seem intent on drawing. The burden of proof, in this case, I think relies on those not agreeing with the status quo.

I don't approach these topics with the intent to debunk them. Actually, I think the dwindling amount of "mystery", in general, is going to ultimately cause our downfall. However, I feel no need to just believe something simply because someone points at an ancient calendar. I know there are other references. There's a reference to the end of the world in The Stand by Stephen King. Are you suggesting if someone finds a copy of this novel in 1000 years they should use it as prophecy simply because the writing is "ancient".

In fact, why does everyone feel the need to assume that ancient culture, especially ones that no longer exist, had some special insight that we don't have today? I mean... if they were so intelligent, you'd think they'd still have a thriving civilization, regardless of what they had to deal with in nature or otherwise. That's not to say they *didnt* have knowledge we don't, but I'm missing the proof, and the relevance.

The differences between the examples you're giving and 2012 is that your examples are tangible real world problems that happen every day, not some supposed prophecy about the end of the world. There is ample proof and examples to say why you should know how to change your own tire, and understand your surroundings if you're going to be in the wilderness. The same level of example and proof doesn't exist for 2012 predictions, so it's hard to apply the same value to it.

That being said, I do agree that everyone should learn as much as they can. It's just as important to study potentially incorrect prophecies so that one can draw conclusions. And if someone were to find proof, and there was even the glimmer of hope of surviving, I would be right there on the front lines doing what I can. Unless that happens, I don't think there's much else to do.

You are contradicting yourself in your own reply.. you base a book by a known fictional writer calling it improbable or simply fiction to be found as prophecy and yet you are saying learn as much as one can.. saying that what YOU believe is fiction is in fact,.. fiction pertaining to 2012.
you are then categorizing yourself in the group of those whom will sit on the sidelines to rant without an effort to truly investigate basing what you believe you know as the truth.
Your example of reading clearly states this.
and My explanation of knowing things are a valid example of how to be prepared for an event ,.. if you choose to look deeper than the example.
You appear to convey that 2012 will not happen yet you will admit that we have the ability to destroy ourselves,.. again a contradiction

Something is going to happen...and its going to be before 2012. People need to quit being ingnorant and pay attention to what is in front of them...use the internet while its still up to figure out the changes. There are several possible events which cause the "transition" of civilisation...the main one I have found is yes....BP oil spill....

Extinction Level Event in the next 6 months folks...very real possibility.

Happened almost the same way 55 some million years ago and before that too...

Amazing artical summarizing the whole picture...

www.helium.com...

Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy
You are contradicting yourself in your own reply.. you base a book by a known fictional writer calling it improbable or simply fiction to be found as prophecy and yet you are saying learn as much as one can.. saying that what YOU believe is fiction is in fact,.. fiction pertaining to 2012.
you are then categorizing yourself in the group of those whom will sit on the sidelines to rant without an effort to truly investigate basing what you believe you know as the truth.
Your example of reading clearly states this.
and My explanation of knowing things are a valid example of how to be prepared for an event ,.. if you choose to look deeper than the example.
You appear to convey that 2012 will not happen yet you will admit that we have the ability to destroy ourselves,.. again a contradiction

You seriously misunderstood my post if you drew those conclusions.

It's not a contradiction to accept that human beings are capable of destroying themselves, and not accept 2012 as a prediction of our imminent demise. There's absolutely no connection between the two.

I've stated my case and left open the very small possibility that I might be wrong. I don't claim to be 100% knowledgeable, and I pretty much dismiss anyone who makes those claims.

At any rate, you misunderstood some key points I was trying to make and interpreted them in a way I didn't intend. Not much I can do about that, either, now that I think of it.

Originally posted by Melen

Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy
You are contradicting yourself in your own reply.. you base a book by a known fictional writer calling it improbable or simply fiction to be found as prophecy and yet you are saying learn as much as one can.. saying that what YOU believe is fiction is in fact,.. fiction pertaining to 2012.
you are then categorizing yourself in the group of those whom will sit on the sidelines to rant without an effort to truly investigate basing what you believe you know as the truth.
Your example of reading clearly states this.
and My explanation of knowing things are a valid example of how to be prepared for an event ,.. if you choose to look deeper than the example.
You appear to convey that 2012 will not happen yet you will admit that we have the ability to destroy ourselves,.. again a contradiction

You seriously misunderstood my post if you drew those conclusions.

It's not a contradiction to accept that human beings are capable of destroying themselves, and not accept 2012 as a prediction of our imminent demise. There's absolutely no connection between the two.

You really just wrote this??
OK then,.I am clearly incorrect here,.. those two statements surely couldn't be contradicting. '' have a good day Melen

Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy
You really just wrote this??
OK then,.I am clearly incorrect here,.. those two statements surely couldn't be contradicting. '

' have a good day Melen

You are, in essence, saying that if humans are capable of destroying themselves, then 2012 predictions must be true. That violates a number of logical fallacies.

Please understand, my tone is one of debate. I'm not sure, but your responses sound like you feel I'm intentionally offending you. That isn't my goal at all, and I just wanted to clarify that.

That being said, neither of the following statements are logically viable:

1) If humans are capable of destroying themselves, 2012 predictions must be true
2) If 2012 is true, humans are capable of destroying themselves

Neither item has a dependency on the other. It is quite possible for humans to become peaceful (cough cough, I might be stretching here), and for the world to still end. Likewise, if there was a possibility of something like 2012 happening, it doesn't rely on humans being capable of destroying themselves (because it could be a completely natural event, not necessarily a human event).

(I edited the above for clarity. The original sentence sounded good in my head, but sounded confusing when I read it back.)

Personally, I think we're on the road to ruin of our own making, but it has absolutely nothing to do with 2012 predictions. It has to do with turning on the news, or witnessing catastrophic events personally, or even self fulfilling prophecy.

reply to post by Reconer

Thanks for that. It's important to note that the article contains a number of references, something which is normally missing with unsupportable claims. I, obviously, have no idea of the validity of those references, but at least the attempt was made to do proper research, and provide those references for anyone willing to dig deeper.

I am one of the people who believe the BP oil "spill" (gusher? "spill" seems to not convey what's actually happening) is going to have permanent, horrid effects on every walk of life. That's another topic altogether.

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Melen]

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Melen]

You don't need to be a prophet or be privvy to sensitive information, in order to see that the world is in serious trouble. When 40 000 people in the UK lose their homes; Japan looks like a real bankrupcy candidate and Chinese residents are paying on average over twenty years wages for property (to name but three examples), I can't help wandering if some of the 2012 doomsdayers are subconciously just hoping for it. It might just be the only hope many have got.

reply to post by Melen
Yes 2012 very well may be the result of humanities actions,.. reread my first post..
however you and I have different views and to end this lets just say
agree to disagree,..
I have to go finish digging my bunker''

I enjoy researching and discussing 2012, but I hate discussing things like this, don't worry about my beliefs, and if you dont believe in it, its not your job to discourage discussion.

"IS IT WORTHY? Why should you risk a social isolation for all of this stuff?"

Is it worthy? What type of question is that? Any topic that interests someone is "worthy". "Why should you risk a social isolation for all of this stuff?" - Well, some people actually fully believe it and dont give a damn about how others judge them for their beliefs. And me personally, I had an experience that made me believe in 2012 before I read anything about it online, or saw any show about it on TV, and I dont feel like explaining that because I dont need to justify my beliefs to others.

"Why do you want to believe in these things?"

Your assuming everyone who believes in 2012 believes it just because they want to believe in it? Im sorry but that is an ignorant assumption, I dont base my beliefs on what I want to be true, I base them off of what makes the most sense to me.

Well. Regardless the whole 2012 deal is a "new cycle." They are saying human collective thinking will be changed. Our thought process now is not going to be the same after 2012.

What causes "change." Nothing...except something bad. Period. If things are going good you dont change it up...you keep it. You only change if something bad happens....keep that in mind. So whatever BAD happens to cause change in thinking....is right at our doorstep...2012 or not.

Like I said...everyone is looking for things to change....Obama was elected with the damn slogan "Change." Its not going to happen until hundreds of millions...if not billions ( I think) will perrish weather from this that or the other...doesnt matter. Then we'll change. Pick up the peices and move on and rebuild with a different mindset to not do stupid crap again like drill for oil so damn deep! LOL. Anyway...thats whats up.

Originally posted by Zagari
Some of you know that I recently had a sort of let down, like a wave of skepticism and realism has reached me.
I enjoyed 2009 as a year of research into 2012. Before that summer I didn't know much about 2012.
But recently it was not so enjoying.

Whenever you try to talk about some big 2012 issues ( whatever they are ) with people you usually experience this:

- Derision
- Misunderstandings
- Denial, meaning they won't be available to even discuss
- Opening of a scientific book to discuss how some theories aren't possible in the real world ( Nibiru, for example, I would agree. Never been interested actually in anything dealing with Nibiru issue ).
- Name calling
- Rage

This is a call for 2012 believers, and I know there are many in this website.
IS IT WORTHY? Why should you risk a social isolation for all of this stuff?

I agree with those guys that say this year is weird. Okay, is weird , so what?
I also see how some guys write and what they write seems to be taken from a fantasy book, I mean, like the ones for kids. Not science- fiction. FANTASY.

What do you really expect from 2012 phenomenon/ myth/ theories ?
Why do you want to believe in these things?

I cannot even imagine what would happen to this world if nothing happens in 2012. I know some people are in need for something. But one day you may have to deal with a non- event.
Once again...

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Zagari]

[edit on 13-7-2010 by Zagari]

I thought you were leaving and not posting anymore; two threads ago.