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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Ummm no dice, Jesus claimed divinity.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Daniel 7 attributed the Son of Man to have divine attributes.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
So you're left with 3 options: Liar, Lunatic, or Lord.
Either Jesus knew He was not God and lied about it, or thought He was God and clearly was not, or He is Lord.
“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’t If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
"No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him."
"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."
"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
"Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
"But he (Stephen), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God."
Jesus Prays for Himself
After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
"Around the ninth hour, Jesus shouted in a loud voice, saying "Eli Eli lama sabachthani?" which is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?""
”the doctrine of the Trinity is a deep mystery/paradox in itself, that cannot be fathomed by the finite mind."
Think about this,How can Jesus have "The Spirit of the living god" Dwelling inside him?. How can God being a spirit,Which he is, (John 4:24
Jesus is divine in the sense that he is the “son of God” and had the spirit of the living God dwelling inside him but Jesus never claimed to be God/Father. Only God, living and speaking through Jesus, claims to be God/Father.
Yes and he does have divine attributes because firstly, he is Gods son and secondly, the spirit of God was living in him also and was one with Jesus spirit.
So essentially, what believers in the trinity doctrine are saying, is that we believe in this doctrine that came from men, as the absolute truth, and that even though it leads to a contradiction, that’s fine, because God is a mystery.
By all means.However, instead of pointing to scripture which was written with intellect and not imagination try to examine the scripture with intellect and not imagination.Maybe you would come to the same conclusion as our church fathers and myself.
Personally, I refuse to accept that…
If it were that easy than the mysteries of God would be solved like yesterdays crossword puzzle.Do you think that the eternal God, all knowing and loving would be so easy to figure out?lol
As I pointed out in my previous post, when you begin to understand that God the Father, lived and worked through Jesus and that Jesus is a person in his own right as well i.e. the son of God, then all the other verses begin to make sense and more importantly, it leaves no contradictions.
Originally posted by oliveoil
Think about this,How can Jesus have "The Spirit of the living god" Dwelling inside him?.
And all those who are guided by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not get the spirit of servants again to put you in fear, but the spirit of sons was given to you, by which we say, Abba, Father. The Spirit is witness with our spirit that we are children of God:
(Romans 8:14-16)
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
(John 14:23)
How can God being a spirit,Which he is, (John 4:24
God is a Spirit) have a spirit? It's an impossibility.A spirit is whole it self.
You either have attributes of that which is God.(who only God can possess) or you dont.
Again God does not have a spirit.He is a spirit. Think very hard. How can a spirit possess a spirit? What you are saying is that Jesus possessed two spirits. That of which is his and that of which is Gods. only matter is divisible.Spirit is not.Spirit is whole of its self.
This is not so.There is perhaps a mystery- Define mystery.
That of which we do not-not know anything , but to that of which we do not know everything.Only that of which God has revealed, And God has revealed this.
Maybe you would come to the same conclusion as our church fathers and myself.
If it were that easy than the mysteries of God would be solved like yesterdays crossword puzzle.Do you think that the eternal God, all knowing and loving would be so easy to figure out?lol
Originally posted by Joecroft
So essentially, what believers in the trinity doctrine are saying, is that we believe in this doctrine that came from men, as the absolute truth, and that even though it leads to a contradiction, that’s fine, because God is a mystery.
Personally, I refuse to accept that…
As I pointed out in my previous post, when you begin to understand that God the Father, lived and worked through Jesus and that Jesus is a person in his own right as well i.e. the son of God, then all the other verses begin to make sense and more importantly, it leaves no contradictions.
Originally posted by oliveoil
Think about this,How can Jesus have "The Spirit of the living god" Dwelling inside him?. How can God being a spirit,Which he is, (John 4:24
God is a Spirit) have a spirit?
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
Originally posted by oliveoil
You either have attributes of that which is God.(who only God can possess) or you don’t.
Originally posted by oliveoil
Again God does not have a spirit. He is a spirit. Think very hard. How can a spirit possess a spirit?.
Originally posted by oliveoil
What you are saying is that Jesus possessed two spirits. That of which is his and that of which is Gods.
Originally posted by oliveoil
only matter is divisible.Spirit is not.Spirit is whole of its self.
Originally posted by oliveoil
This is not so.There is perhaps a mystery- Define mystery. That of which we do not-not know anything , but to that of which we do not know everything.Only that of which God has revealed, And God has revealed this.
Originally posted by oliveoil
By all means.However, instead of pointing to scripture which was written with intellect and not imagination try to examine the scripture with intellect and not imagination. Maybe you would come to the same conclusion as our church fathers and myself.
Originally posted by oliveoil
If it were that easy than the mysteries of God would be solved like yesterdays crossword puzzle.Do you think that the eternal God, all knowing and loving would be so easy to figure out?lol
Originally posted by queenannie38
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
(John 14:23)
that verse also contradicts Jesus being GOD, because if so, he would have only said "I will come unto him and make MY abode..."
but Jesus said WE and OUR
we never means i
we means i and another
Originally posted by queenannie38
but it is only by having God the Father living and working through you that you understand this concept that many can't yet grasp.
you understand the trail that Jesus blazed because you are following that same trail.
Originally posted by queenannie38
you're the most divine giant ape that i've ever met!
Yes you are right, God is spirit and his spirit was in Jesus
Jesus was the first born of all creation and has his own spirit.
When Jesus was baptized, the spirit of God came upon him and became one with Jesus spirit. This is why Jesus says, “I and the Father are one”
How do you base your theory on this ass-nine statement? lol. Again God has no spirit. God is whole within himself. God being spirit(infinite) cannot merge with a lesser of infinite spirit. That would make the lesser spirit infinite which would be God wholly.Now thats a real contradiction. - Jesus is Wholly God
the spirit of God came upon him and became one with Jesus spirit. This is why Jesus says, “I and the Father are one
And what exactly is the conclusion of the church fathers and yourself?
Originally posted by Joecroft
Yes I believe you are right…I recently received the Holy Spirit while reading John 14 one night and I experienced what was described in John 7:38.
LOL
Thanks…I appreciate that, although I’m more of angel than an ape…
Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by queenannie38
Queenannie,
You are a delight to ones imagination and a colorful soul to endure. However, you bring no real concrete truths to your reason and your intellect concerning scripture is anything but factual. When your serious about theory and want to learn something worth learning let me know. OO-
And let me guess this teacher would be Jesus.Looks like you missed a class or two...lol still in all I delight in your folly.peace QA38
- i've got a teacher already who prefers the more direct 'hands-on' approach on a 'one-on-one' basis.
Originally posted by Greatest I am
All that Jesus is, is based on being born of a virgin yet he was what, the 12 human born of a virgin.
Originally posted by Joecroft
Yes you are right, God is spirit and his spirit was in Jesus
Originally posted by oliveoil
Here you go again. You are asserting that God who is spirit, has a spirit that he can send out like an impersonal energy force.
Originally posted by oliveoil
Your distinction between matter and spirit is from imagination not intellect and most certainly not scripture.The difference between spirit of a man and that of God is that mans spirit is finite and fused with matter (a body) God has no body and is pure spirit which is also Infinite.
Matter occupies space. Spirit does not. Ones thoughts and knowledge are considered to be that which we call spirit.They have no physical attributes whatsoever.Material things can be broken down into lesser parts.Any part of a material being is not the whole of its self.
Spiritual beings however are the whole of themselves. They have no parts that can be broken down.
Originally posted by oliveoil
Now back to your statement.' Gods Spirit was in Jesus'. God is the supreme spirit. Infinite in knowledge and love.There can only be one supreme being infinite in knowledge and love.Now lets look at what Jesus said.Luke 10:22 and Matthew 11:27
22"(A)All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and (B)no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him."
27"(A)All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father (B)except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
These passages can only mean certainly that The Father and Jesus share the same knowledge.
INFINITE KNOWLEDGE
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Originally posted by oliveoil
The scripture you quote is Colossians 1:15 however you left out a huge part.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
And if you care to take if further,
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. What do you supose this means? THRONES DOMINIONS RULERS AUTHORITIES.. VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE.- is God not but the ultimate invisible throne, dominion, ruler, and authority? Yes Jesus has his own spirit. That of which is God.
Originally posted by oliveoil
Actually no. Matthew 3:16 reads like this: And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:.Intellect has already told us that God being a spirit does no have a spirit.
Originally posted by oliveoil
This dove like creature would be the Holy Spirit. The third person in the blessed trinity. This is again part of what is revealed to us as what god is.
Originally posted by Joecroft
the spirit of God came upon him and became one with Jesus spirit. This is why Jesus says, “I and the Father are one
Originally posted by oliveoil
How do you base your theory on this ass-nine statement? lol.
Originally posted by oliveoil
Again God has no spirit. God is whole within himself. God being spirit(infinite) cannot merge with a lesser of infinite spirit. That would make the lesser spirit infinite which would be God wholly.
Before ever the silver cord is cut, or the vessel of gold is broken, or the pot is broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the water-hole; And the dust goes back to the earth as it was, and the spirit goes back to God who gave it.
(Ecclesiastes 12:6-7)