It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why Socialism Fails

page: 1
12
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 10:59 AM
link   
I have never seen a better example...


An economics professor said he had never failed a single student before but had, once, failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said ok, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism.

All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A. After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.

But, as the second test rolled around, the students who studied only a little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too; so they studied less than what they had. The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around the average was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great; but when government takes all the reward away; no one will try or want to succeed.


It really speaks truth about the fallacy of socialism. On paper it sounds great, but in reality, unless everyone contributes, it will inevitably fail.

Source: Why Socialism fails.

-E-

[edit on 12-7-2010 by MysterE]




posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 11:01 AM
link   
so what, if someone can't afford healthcare, etc, they should just die? if someone can't find work, they should just starve?

getting rid of all socialism is lunacy.



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 11:03 AM
link   
Thanks for the link. Even I know a lot about Communism and socialism; as well much I don't understand about the concept. I can already tell from history how difficult it will be to have society under Marxism and Leninism. Great ideas that only work mixed with capitalism. majority of the economies around the world.



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 11:04 AM
link   

Originally posted by Feanorr
so what, if someone can't afford healthcare, etc, they should just die? if someone can't find work, they should just starve?

getting rid of all socialism is lunacy.


They used to have this stuff called privately run charities.

But those have dried up since the government took them all over with its own programs and then tanked the economy by suppressing interest rates and jacking tens of trillions in debt.

Its not governments job to feed your grandma, its YOUR job slacker.



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 11:06 AM
link   
Actually, right now its capitalism that is failing. Unless you haven't already noticed.

But, I am not a supporter of any of the isms. I support common sense, and, anything that is currency based lacks this essential feature.

Namaste and Love



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 11:09 AM
link   
reply to post by PsychoX42
 


Socialist economics cannot by it's self compete with capitalism. That's why my friend's say there has to be a revolution. In my mind I think to myself; "How would the majority of these people lead a country by just reading the communist manifesto?" Not that it's great book. Like many others had said Communism can never work in a large country.



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 11:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by PsychoX42
Actually, right now its capitalism that is failing. Unless you haven't already noticed.

But, I am not a supporter of any of the isms. I support common sense, and, anything that is currency based lacks this essential feature.

Namaste and Love


Capitalism does not involve government being responsible for 40% of GDP spending.

Capitalism does not involve central banks setting interest rates.

Capitalism does not involve 23.7 trillion in banker bailouts.

Capitalism does not involve millions of pages of government regulation.

Do you know what does involve those things?

Fascism.

Claiming this economy is a failure of capitalism could only come from someone who was educated in a publicly run school.



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 11:12 AM
link   
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


You're correct on that. Government has no place in the economy of the country. look at the various colorful leaders in the past who have abused their countries economic system only to destroy in the process.



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 11:14 AM
link   
reply to post by PsychoX42
 


I don't think it is capitalism that is failing, I believe it is this psudo capitalist-socialist-fascist program we are currently running.

What is wrong with rewarding the people who work hardest?

-E-



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 11:18 AM
link   
reply to post by MysterE
 


I would like to share this link with you. It introduces you to mix economics.
Which is practiced by a wide amount of countries.
www.wisegeek.com...



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 11:22 AM
link   
reply to post by mnemeth1
 




Its not governments job to feed your grandma, its YOUR job slacker.


Amen
to
That



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 11:25 AM
link   
Yes! EXCELLENT POST OP!!!


The bottom line on why Socialism fails is this: Eventually you run out of other people's money! Think about it... as the example in the OP illustrates, why bother putting forth great effort when over half of the fruits of your labor are taken from you and given to people who lack any drive to succeed? Whereas I agree that there needs to be social programs, those programs should be limited in scope and the timeframe that they should be available to individuals - Unemployment Insurance being a prime example!



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 11:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by PsychoX42
Actually, right now its capitalism that is failing. Unless you haven't already noticed.

But, I am not a supporter of any of the isms. I support common sense, and, anything that is currency based lacks this essential feature.

Namaste and Love


You may want to look at this a little more closely. It's not straight capitalism that's failing. It's the socialist attitudes impeding on the true capitlistic view that has already been consumed by the greedy extreme side of capitalism.

Okay, that was worded poorly but I hope you get an idea of what I am talking about.

Government got involved beyond what their role should have been. They allowed for the already dirty rich to get their dirty hands pulling their strings. That's what has harmed capitalism. (Among other things of course).



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 11:59 AM
link   
reply to post by PsychoX42
 





But, I am not a supporter of any of the isms. I support common sense, and, anything that is currency based lacks this essential feature.


Just one sentence after claiming you are not a supporter of any "isms", you reveal yourself to be a supporter of "common sensism" Common sense is not the same as common sensism and the "common sense" practiced today has nothing at all to do with the Common Sense spoken to by Paine some 250 years ago.

Common sense would tell you that the oligopolism of today is not capitalism. Common sense would tell you that capitalism requires a currency based upon wealth not fiat currency. Common sense would tell you that capitalism requires free and unregulated markets not the heavily regulated markets of today where even a shoe maker and book seller is "required" to obtain a license to operate before going into business, and common sense would tell you that capitalism requires massive competition in order to be capitalism, and that the corporatism of today is hardly in favor of massive competition.

"Competition is a sin"

~John D. Rockefeller~

When common sense becomes nothing more than what is commonly believed to be true that is common sensism and not common sense. Common sense is sound practical judgment not an indoctrinated belief system.

"Common sense is not so common"

~Voltaire~

Common sense would allow you to see that Marxism is not taught in business schools but instead taught in history classes and sociology classes. Common sense would dictate that the rabid attacks on capitalism that Karl Marx engaged in were done so as a propaganda device to deflect away from his flawed theory.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"

~The Great and Powerful Oz~

Common sense would tell you that if the "worker" were truly the sole source and means of production that when unemployed they wouldn't be screaming that they needed a job and would just simply produce.

"If I only had a brain"

~The Scarecrow~

Common sense would tell you that the financial problems that exist today, do so because of expedience and much of that expedience lies in believing that common sense is nothing more than what you've been told to be true. After all, if someone asks how it is they became liable for the so called "Personal Income Tax", there are multitudes of people who will answer; "It is common sense that anybody who earns income is liable for an income tax".

However, common sense will tell you that the vast majority of people have never even bothered to read Title 26 of the United States Code, and have no idea what it is that makes them liable for the so called "Personal Income Tax". Some will go as far as suggesting, or even asserting that the 16th Amendment makes one liable, but common sense would tell you that Congress all ready had the power to lay and collect taxes on income prior to the passage of the 16th Amendment, and anyone who thinks that the income tax is a direct tax on income has no common sense. Common sense would tell you that the so called "Personal Income Tax" functions as an indirect tax and this is why it is not apportioned, and instead adheres to the rule of uniformity like all indirect taxes do.

"If I only had a heart"

~The Tin Man~

Common sense would tell you that income tax sold as a wealth re-distribution scheme has not re-distributed wealth at all and has only kept the poor from creating wealth while the rich get richer. Common sense would tell you that an income tax in perpetuity is immoral and unsustainable. Common sense would tell you that when our Founders fought a revolution, that revolt was sparked by a tax on tea! Common sense would tell you that income taxation did not even exist when Great Britain still ruled the colonies, and common sense would tell you that people in the beginning of the founding of The United States of America would have never tolerated an income tax at all, let alone one in perpetuity.

"If I only had some courage"

~The Cowardly Lion~

Common sense will tell you that most people today accept their indentured servitude not because of the nobility of the worker, but because they are afraid to challenge the status quo. Common sense will tell you that when we succumb to fear we are as helpless as a lamb. Common sense will tell you that blame is irrelevant, and that as long as we keep pointing to paradigms and calling them something they are not that no good will come from this.



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 12:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by MysterE
reply to post by PsychoX42
 


I don't think it is capitalism that is failing, I believe it is this psudo capitalist-socialist-fascist program we are currently running.

What is wrong with rewarding the people who work hardest?

-E-


The problem is in a capitalist society, the primary reward is money. There are many other ways in which someone can feel rewarded. Doing something to help others in the community is rewarding, but in a capitalist society it is not rewarded financially Look at those who have been most rewarded in our capitalist societies, bankers, hedge fund managers, and celebrities. Do these people work harder than the teacher, the nurses, the cleaners

It seems to me that those who work the hardest in capitalist systems are the ones who are paid the least. Lets not forget we now live in a globalised world with a global division of labour. Now the real poor are working in sweat shops making cheap clothes for westerners for 5 cents a day (Im sure those guys love global capitalism, maybe if they work for ten years and save ALL they earn then they too can own a primark t shirt)

Anyway I think you see where I'm going. I just want a fairer society and if thats called socialism then so be it.



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 12:12 PM
link   
reply to post by woodwardjnr
 





It seems to me that those who work the hardest in capitalist systems are the ones who are paid the least.


Work smarter, not harder! Digging ditches is far harder than teaching. Should the ditch digger be paid more than a teacher? Has it ever occurred to you that teachers in private schools are paid better than teachers in public schools? Washing dishes is harder than being a grocery store checker, but grocery store checkers are by and large paid better than dishwashers...mostly due to unions. Should the dishwashers unite, or should they aspire to move up the chain and become chefs? Questions, questions, questions...



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 12:13 PM
link   
One can hardly argue that bleeding of American jobs to third world countries, shutdown of the American manufacturing sector and deregulation of financial services were diabolical handiwork of hardcore socialists in the US government.

On the contrary, these three components of the predicament we find ourselves in are a direct application of capitalism values -- deregulation and free trade. I'm going to translate this for you -- the country has been raped and left bleeding on the floor, by the purist capitalist types.

What good is "global competitiveness" of American businesses if in the end we just keep borrowing money from the Chinese because we don't make stuff anymore, and just consume? Faith-based governance has its terrible price.



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 12:22 PM
link   
reply to post by buddhasystem
 





One can hardly argue that bleeding of American jobs to third world countries, shutdown of the American manufacturing sector and deregulation of financial services were diabolical handiwork of hardcore socialists in the US government.


One can argue that the sense of entitlement to a job was the diabolical handiwork of hardcore socialists, in and outside of the U.S. government. Socialism has no concern with how wealth is created, only that it be spread evenly. The insidiousness of this belief is that all people have the right to create their own wealth, and it can be fairly assured that working at a job for an employer is not in anyway the surest way to create wealth. One can and should argue that as long as people continue to believe they are owed a job, that unemployment will remain high, and that if and when people realize that they are more than capable of entering the business world and competing on a global scale, they will have a much better shot at wealth creation. Not to mention that when more people begin doing this, jobs will get created as well.



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 12:22 PM
link   
Great examples
the faster america finds this out the faster we can be back on track to a economic recovery



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 12:28 PM
link   
Yup. Excellent post.

It's all about the incentives. Incentives are the Great Ignored Thing when it comes to the socialism debate. Socialists are idealists without all the facts of human nature; they like to dream up these ideal scenarios where they create a heaven on earth.

But they completely ignore incentives, and thus fail to realize why their programs are doomed to fail. An analysis of incentives shows easily why the best-intended social programs end up dumbing down society and destroying any existing prosperity.

Of course, they also completely ignore history, like the fact that in all of human history, there has been only one economic system that has actually succeeded in pulling the masses out of poverty and pouring a horn of plenty upon them. And it wasn't socialism.

(To the guy who said capitalism is failing: Wrong. American socialism is failing. Our economic troubles can be traced back to Fed mismanagement. Fed credit expansion has been an essential source of funds for all our hare-brained social programs.)


EDIT: Actually, I'm less of a hardcore capitalist than I used to be. I still enjoy pointing out to socialists why their schemes will fail, but the problem with capitalism is two things:

1.) The prosperity gets so intense that we end up as a virus on the planet consuming all the resources, which is basically like a huge economic bubble that ends up popping in an apocalypse-scale event (just wait).

2.) Again, human nature. Diehard capitalists also ignore it. Those who have amassed great wealth through serving others (the way it should work) then want to keep it by getting in bed with the state, resulting in what we now call "crony capitalism", and justifying many of the complaints of the socialists.

It's kind of a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't scenario. Personally I think the human race is just doomed, we're here to suffer, and life sucks.

In other words, ideologies are all BS.

"Our fearsome gods have only changed their names: they now rhyme with -ism." -Carl Jung



[edit on 12-7-2010 by NewlyAwakened]



new topics

top topics



 
12
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join