Top Five Ufology Cases

reply to post by Droogie

Anyway, this was just a hypothetical scenario, and a poor one at that I must admit. I hope I get my point across in spite of this, however unlikely this particular scenario sounds like.

Ok fair enough. I get what your saying.

But one thing. Never let anyone convince you about "back-engineering" alien anything. If aliens exist, their ships would have so many redundancy systems that they would never crash. I know that humans take off for vacations without their airline ticket. They forget to fill up their gas tank. And some are even dumb enough to avoid changing their timing-belt when the manufacturer suggests. There is no way aliens would make such silly errors. Even if they had something catastrophic happen, I would hypothesize they'd have some kind of self-destruct mechanism (something fool proof).

Also, vastly superior aliens would not make a deal with the US gov't and give them some technology in exchange for clearance to abduct people. That is such a baloney hypothesis constantly circulating around these boards. There is no reason for aliens to make deals with humans. Do me a favor and never get sucked into that way of thinking!

reply to post by Gazrok

1. Roswell (numerous military witnesses from sergeants to generals, press evidence of flights to air materiel command, the army's press release, etc.)

Never really liked that case. Too much baggage.

I do want to believe Jesse Marcel's story. But there are so many conflicting stories. Some say the metal could be bent but would immediately return to it's original shape. Some say the metal couldn't be bent or even dented.

reply to post by Scramjet76


You make sound arguments that seems to elude alot of people, as well as my poorly constructed hypothesis. I think I could've thought of something better, but I'm not that confident in my creativeness. Lets hope if, or when, the real deal shows up it's better than this.

I'll try do do you that favor, but no promises

reply to post by One Moment


thank you for the link!

the video was kind of hard to follow, though, it seems out-of-sync or something.

here are two others of the same things, parts of one whole:





i think i will change my mind and include this sighting, too, on my list.
the fact that the testimonies are so good is now a count in my favor, i think.
they are very bright and articulate and there are many interesting points brought up.

thanks so much for suggesting i reconsider!

reply to post by Scramjet76


no doubt!!!

i totally agree.

i live 70 miles south of Roswell, and while i am pretty sure SOMETHING happened there in 1947, i don't know what.

but the idea of aliens crashing, or worse yet, running into each other, always seems sort of "off" to me.

and definitely i do not see any even remote possibility that aliens are in cahoots with the wicked overlords of this world.
that would mean that the universe is unfair and i can't believe that.

besides that, it just doesn't make sense, like you say!

Originally posted by Gazrok
I'd have to disagree with Zimbabwe for the purpose of this thread, as children don't make great court witnesses (imaginative, and easily misled).

I'd also have to disagree with the Phoenix Lights case. (While the earlier sighting remains a mystery....the event that was video taped a couple hours later and shown to the world, was pretty much conclusively shown to be excess flares dropped by A-10s, i.e. after a test run designated as Operation Snowbird. Doesn't explain the earlier, eyewitness event (but no video), and was likely done to coverup the earlier sighting even, perhaps, but still plants a HUGE seed of doubt.)

Those children are now adults, surly their testimony would count?

the Phoenix Lights incident is probably more a mystery than a case perhaps,
there were many sightings in the days and hours leading up the the main event with the lights that looked like flares hovered over the mountain ridge,
Is it not true that these excess flares are used to light up an area?

The Zimbabwe case is the top of my list so far, multiple witnesses describing the same things including children and adult members of staff, they didn't only claim to see some Ariel phenomenon but also a craft on the ground and it's occupants.

Children wouldn't count as very reliable eye-witnesses though. Give me 20 minutes with a class of 5th graders, and I'll have each one swearing to you that Superman just ran through the room wearing Wonder Woman's outfit...

Even though adults these days, those memories are now years old...(same issue as Roswell really).

I know Roswell has baggage, but there's a lot that it has that (for me) overrides those who've tried to capitalize on it...

For starters, the military issued a press release saying they had a flying saucer. That's a big deal. The other thing, is the numerous military ranking officers that said they handled the debris (whether during, or after the event), and not just Marcel...

The military's cover story still doesn't add up (Mogul balloons had no classified components, but used off the shelf technology...the materials could be identified by anybody). They certainly wouldn't have needed to ship it off to Air Materiel Command to examine it (but that's what they did). Also, the timeline for Mogul 4 only fits if you accept Brazel's recanted testimony after being in military custody.

The USAF further ridiculed themselves by trying to insinuate High Dive dummies were to blame for reports of "bodies"...when High Dive happened five years AFTER the event!

It would be interesting to hear how these south-african children would describe the sighting today as they are alot older. They would still remember what they saw right? But they would have better articulation and references that would better describe what happened. These witnesses should be interviewed again, then we would probably get a better and more accurate picture of what they really saw.

Originally posted by Gazrok
1. Roswell (numerous military witnesses from sergeants to generals, press evidence of flights to air materiel command, the army's press release, etc.)

2. Rendlesham (numerous military witnesses, recording, etc.)

3. Betty and Barney Hill (radar contact, the starmap, seen by a top Army psychiatrist, etc.)

4. Shag Harbor

5. Travis Walton

I'd have to disagree with Zimbabwe for the purpose of this thread, as children don't make great court witnesses (imaginative, and easily misled).

I'd also have to disagree with the Phoenix Lights case. (While the earlier sighting remains a mystery....the event that was video taped a couple hours later and shown to the world, was pretty much conclusively shown to be excess flares dropped by A-10s, i.e. after a test run designated as Operation Snowbird. Doesn't explain the earlier, eyewitness event (but no video)

No video of the earlier sighting? Actually there is a video though it's not a very good one (Starting at about 00:40):

dsc.discovery.com...

So I agree with you on Phoenix except for the "no video" part, and agree on Zimbabwe as well.

Regarding the 5 cases you mentioned,

1. Roswell sounds like exactly what the Air force said it was to me, from reading the 1947 newspaper article

www.ufologie.net...

Brazel related that on June 14 he and 8-year old son Vernon were about 7 or 8 miles from the ranch house of the J.B. Foster ranch, which he operates, when they came upon a large area of bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks.

The next day he first heard about the flying disks, and he wondered if what he had found might be the remnants of one of these.

When the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 5 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds

Considerable scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction.

If "tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 5 inches thick" held together with "considerable scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it" is some of the best evidence we've got, then we haven't got much. It doesn't sound like one could travel to the moon in something held together with scotch tape, much less another star system.

2. Rendlesham: Penniston or Burroughs is unquestionably lying (I suspect Penniston) and Halt's taped recording says he sees the light at 5 second intervals just like the lighthouse...so he saw a reflection of the lighthouse light perhaps off some haze or fog in front of the lighthouse, though some others may have seen other things. The records are so bad in that case we don't even know the exact dates.

Rendlesham Forest incident

Jim Penniston and John Burroughs went to investigate the craft together. However, there is a major inconsistency in separate interviews of Jim Penniston and John Burroughs. In an interview with Larry King on November 9, 2007, Jim Penniston claimed that he did a 45 minutes full investigation of the craft on the ground, touched the craft and took photos of the craft. However, in a separate interview in Robert Stack's Unsolved Mysteries, John Burroughs described that after suddenly encountering the craft on the ground, "we all hit the ground, and it went up into the trees".

Every lighthouse has a published interval at which it flashes. This is how sea captains are able to identify which light they're seeing. The Orfordness lighthouse has an interval of 5 seconds. this recording added a beep at exactly five second intervals url=http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4135

3. The Hill case is interesting, I'm not sure exactly what to make of it, but it's not that compelling because the star chart could be anything and hypnosis can dredge up false memories as well as real ones. They may have had some kind of experience but I'm not sure we'll ever know for sure what it was.

4. Shag Harbor is the most mysterious of the 5 cases you mentioned. Actually the Roswell case and the Walton case aren't mysterious at all, except the only mystery to me is why people think they are mysterious. The other three have some mystery though.

5. Travis Walton-there is little doubt in my mind he hoaxed it. Even the pro-UFO investigators from GSW who investigated it thought he hoaxed it even before he had returned from the "abduction" to tell his story.

"Ground Saucer Watch" Memo on the Walton Incident

"Ground Saucer Watch," a pro-UFO organization, was the very first UFO organization on the scene of the Walton "abduction". In cooperation with Dr. J. Allen Hynek of CUFOS, Dr. Lester Stewart of GSW began to interview the Walton family while Travis was still "missing." They immediately smelled a hoax. These are their conclusions, without any changes - RS.

1. Walton never boarded the UFO. This fact is supported by the six witnesses and the polygraph test results. [3]

2. The entire Walton family has had a continual UFO history. The Walton boys have reported observing 10 to 15 separate UFO sightings (very high).

3. When Duane was questioned about his brother's disappearance, he stated that "Travis will be found, that UFO's are friendly." GSW countered, "How do you know Travis will be found?" Duane said "I have a feeling, a strong feeling." GSW asked "If the UFO 'captors' are going to return Travis, will you have a camera to record this great occurrence?" Duane, "No, if I have a camera 'they' will not return."

4. The Walton's mother showed no outward emotion over the 'loss' of Travis. She said that UFO's will not harm her son, he will be returned and that UFO's have been seen by her family many times.

5. The Walton's refused any outside scientific help or anyone who logically doubted the abduction portion of the story......

I don't really have 5 good cases, they are pretty rare. A lot of cases are explainable but I have a hard time explaining this one:

The 1976 Tehran, F-4 Phantom Chases UFO Case
Several things happened I can't explain in prosaic terms. At one point I thought it might be a secret US military weapon but when FOIA documents seemed to suggest the US investigators didn't know what it was either, that made it seem more mysterious.

It has some characteristics of a celestial object, like they chase it but can't catch it, but jammed communications and malfunctioning electronics when they were trying to pursue the object would suggest it's not celestial. Ball lightning or something was another thought which might explain electromagnetic interference, except the pilot described the object as rectangular shaped, which doesn't sound like ball lightning. So it's mysterious.

Originally posted by Droogie
It would be interesting to hear how these south-african children would describe the sighting today as they are alot older. They would still remember what they saw right? But they would have better articulation and references that would better describe what happened. These witnesses should be interviewed again, then we would probably get a better and more accurate picture of what they really saw.

Haven't you seen this?

reply to post by Droogie


oops!! sorry wrong vid, but interesting anyway

MODS; why cant I edit my posts?

Originally posted by Seventytwo
MODS; why cant I edit my posts?

you can for at least 2 hours, sometimes longer.

They don't allow editing longer than that because some people might go back and edit in things that shouldn't be there, like profanity or ad hominems. If something really needed editing badly like an incorrect source link, a mod might be persuaded to do the edit for you, but if it's just a little typo I suspect you're stuck with it.

What about Police reports?

THE PRUFOS POLICE DATABASE
It caters for serving and retired officers who have been involved in British UFO police sightings.



Written Police testimonies would had much weight to the case files, these should be narrowed down to the best five also.

Could you please suggest the top five UFO Police incidents?




[edit on 043131p://f51Thursday by Seventytwo]

reply to post by Arbitrageur


There is no edit tab or nob to press, yesterday the function returned but when I attempted to edit my post it said: "I have no authority"
now it's gone again

Please give me some authority

I've just discovered that my edit function works in IE but not firefox
why would that be?

[edit on 043131p://f53Thursday by Seventytwo]

Oh. That's easy. In fact, maybe ATS should sponsor a class action suit on behalf of the membership to take the case to court.

I think the case is "winable" withstanding the fact that the government is clandestinely holding all of the physical evidence.

We have hundreds of credible witnesses that can testify to their experiences. Visual sighting, physical descriptions and abductions alone are quite convincing.

If someone robbed a bank and the cameras didn't work, can we still convict the robber even though we have no trace of the money or any physical evidence? Of course we can.

I think ATS should start a fund for donations from the membership and let's do it.

That should put a shiver down the spines of the government snoops that are monitoring ATS. I wonder how many confidential reports and top secret documents that would generate in the halls of congress and justice departments.

reply to post by FactFinder


Legitimising Ufology and having a coherent rebuttal to defend the subject is important in the big scheme of things and also amongst your peers, the far deeper issue is legitimising it for yourself.

The case is winnable

Every lighthouse has a published interval at which it flashes. This is how sea captains are able to identify which light they're seeing. The Orfordness lighthouse has an interval of 5 seconds. this recording added a beep at exactly five second intervals url=http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4135

If you are going to continue posting this fairy story e, every time you do I am going to post that.. "The person who invented this explanation has since, RESCINDED IT, ON FILM and accepted that Halt could not have seen the lighthouse from where the UFO was being observed.

reply to post by Seventytwo


Thanks for sharing, I've watched the first part and will take a look at the rest later. Would be interesting if there was anything similar for the south-african kids.

my own personal sightings and encounters would stand up in a court of law, courts of law accept the supernatural exists, they swear oaths on religious books and it was even in the USA where a psychic got thumped on the head by falling logs, lost her psychic ability, took em to court and she won damages for lost psychic abilities.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


It does seem that both the Hill case and Roswell get the most skeptical treatment of the cases that are presented, and both have the best evidence for extraterrestrial contact/crash.

For the Roswell case:

1. If the debris was just balsa wood, tin foil and common objects, why did the military cordon off the area to collect it? (They might have sent a detail to help the ranchers pick it up so no cattle would eat it, but they would not of cordoned off the area keeping out civilians.) The cordons are remembered by many citizens from the area.

2. If it was debris of just a balloon and the measuring equipment, why did the military ship it to Ft Worth and then to Wright Patterson AAF? They also shipped it during the down time of the Fourth of July break. Why did they not use the normal supply procedures for routine items like the balloon and radiation measuring equipment?

3. For those who say it was an experimental top secret air craft, why would the air force not say it was an experimental top secret air craft? They do not have to give out specifics, although it would probably be very out of date by now having 63 years pass by.

4. Why were many flag (general) officers notified of the wreckage if it was just the balloon during the weekend of the Fourth? Again, they would of had briefings during the normal logistics briefings they had during the normal duty times. There would not be a special need to have them come out to the base over a balloon crash. (Even a Project Mogul balloon, as they were still balloons but with a then classified mission.) The DCM (Deputy Commander Maintenance) would of been notified as it was his responsibility.

Then there is the Hill case:

1. A radar confirmation by Pease AFB and North Concord VT AFS of an unknown object in the area that the Hills were at at the same time. This data always seems to be ignored by people who wish this case would go away.

2. The unknown pink substance on Betty's dress was tested and found to be organic (biological). (A chapter in the book Captured goes into analysis of the dress).

3. While Betty did have dreams of the same nature, they were much different then what she reported under hypnotic regression. Although they were both hypnotized separately, Betty and Barney had corroborated each other during the sessions. Again, both were told they would not remember what they said when they were awakened. (While this type of evidence is not considered the best because of its nature, it still should be added to the circumstantial file.)

4. Barney's report before he went under hypnosis to Project Blue Book shows a large object with occupants in it staring back at him. He was not regressed to get this report and it is very credible. This seems to always be ignored as everyone is told this case only comes from hypnosis when that is not true at all.

Again, thinking outside the box for Roswell opens up a lot of questions to the weather balloon/Project Mogul/Nazi saucer stories. And the other evidence in the Hill case is always overlooked. However, when the other pieces of the puzzle are brought together, they show that these cases are among the best that are out there.