It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Obama wants your freedom!! Its in writing!!

page: 3
26
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 12:44 PM
link   
reply to post by jibeho
 


As a guy that works in the financial services industry, the purpose of this bill is simply to moniter each citizen's finances. They want to know where your money is and have access to it. It's about control.




posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 12:52 PM
link   
Here is the current Marching Orders for Fox News, Right Wing Blogs and Glenn Beck.

The overwhelming majority of the public are niether Legislators nor Lawyers and have very little understanding of legal language.

Capitalize on this by...

(1) Reading bills and finding language that can be misinterpreted by the laymen. (the public)

(2) Choose phrasing or passages that with a creative eye can be spun as an invasion of rights or an erosion of freedoms. "Freedom" and "Individual Rights" are fertile hot buttons to push.

(3) Take those phrases out of the inconvenient context they are in and build a message around it. Do not exert yourself building a complicated or nuanced argument, most people don't care to read too deeply and want to have thier political views affirmed.

(4) Dissemenate through regular channels, blogs, Fox News etc.

(5) By the time a clear and valid debunkery occurs and the full context and meaning of the legal language becomes available to the public ...the news cycle will have passed and there will be a new "story" making the rounds.

The short attention span of the American Public affords us the ability to create a steady stream of propaganda.

Always remember a lie is always more interesting than the truth and people want to hear what they want to hear.

Repeat often.

See the healthcare debate for great examples...Micro-chips, Death Panels etc.

Take caution with stories so tabloid or catchy that they spend too much time in the mainstream news cycle...this risks the public still paying attention when the story is debunked..."Death Panels"...best to stick to the internet and talk shows...but always FOX! They are loyal and aren't overly concerned with the truth.

Each and every bill that is proposed or passed will offer language that can be taken out of context and spun to the masses. Keep it comming!

Remember...any bill that threatens our supporters and financial backers...is "Uncontitutional!!!"

You should be waking up in your sleep shouting "Unconstitutional!"



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 12:54 PM
link   
I've come to the conclusion that we are [SNIPed] whether we have a Democrat or Republican president. And I don't think we will ever untangle all the unconstitutional Laws, Acts, Statutes, Codes, Orders, Amendments, Citations, Decisions, Rules, Regulations, etc., etc. It's like a choker chain. The more you resist the tighter the chain gets.

I also DON'T think an Independent will EVER be elected president - too many sheep.

Here's a little more food for thought.

In 2003 Mr. Obama was asked...

"Would you vote to repeal the Patriot Act?"

"Yes, I would vote to repeal the U.S. Patriot Act, although I would consider replacing that shoddy and dangerous law with a new, carefully crafted proposal that addressed in a much more limited fashion the legitimate needs of law enforcement in combating terrorism (for example, permitting a warrant for the interception of cell phone calls, and not just land-based phones to accommodate changes in technology)."

"However, on March 2, 2006, U.S. Senator Barack Obama (D - Illinois) voted to re-authorize the Patriot Act [Source: 3/2/2006 Senate Roll Call Vote #029]. In fact, on February 16, 2006, Sen. Obama had this to say on the floor of the United States Senate:"

"This compromise does modestly improve the PATRIOT Act by strengthening civil liberties protections without sacrificing the tools that law enforcement needs to keep us safe [...] So, I will be supporting the Patriot Act compromise. [Source: 2/16/2006 Floor Statement of Senator Barack Obama on USA PATRIOT Act Reauthorization]"

Obama Flip-Flops on Patriot Act

God help the USA.




[edit on 13-7-2010 by FearNoEvil]



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 12:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by astrogolf
reply to post by jibeho
 


As a guy that works in the financial services industry, the purpose of this bill is simply to moniter each citizen's finances. They want to know where your money is and have access to it. It's about control.


Shouldn't you be off spending someone's retirement savings? Or creating some "synthetic" mortgage backed security to sell the public? Rather than stating unsupported drivel.

Your opposition to a financial regulatory bill is no mystery given your occupation. In fact your post just gave me comfort ...if you are willing to get on ATS and spout nonsense about the bill, then it must have provisions that threaten the status quo in the financial industry...ya know...the practices that nearly collapsed our economy for the likes of Madoff and crew.



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 01:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
reply to post by jibeho
 


Although I do believe Obama wants our freedom and its in writing lots of places, I do think you're stretching this one a bit. The constitution doesn't protection corporations or companies but private citizens.

But, in your opening paragraphs, you quote that the final version of this bill is unconstitutional which is clearly is not.



Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

Have you read it? I'll link it here for you: United States Constitution . This bill, as written, is not unconstitutional.

I know it's not a popular opinion here at ATS but it's reality. There are PLENTY of unconstitutional things that the Obama Administration has done... let's focus on the real ones.



You are confused

This crew is not interested in accuracy, facts or truth. That lonely star you see on your post is from me, but expect no kudos from the usual suspects for pointing out the truth....the truth has no place in the frothing at the mouth Obama-haters agenda.

[edit on 13-7-2010 by maybereal11]


Read section 1022 for yourself and tell me what you think it means. I read and cited it. The language is clear.

Those are ACCURATE TRUTHFUL FACTS. My agenda is concerned with the massive power grab that has been occurring since Obama has been in office. Any grab like this regardless of who or what, dem or rep, is sitting at the helm warrants concern and great attention.

It is sad that people like you just insist on reclining back to watch this just slip by without even a blink and you think others should do just the same.

When is enough actually enough? There will be nothing left at this pace.



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 01:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by maybereal11
Here is the current Marching Orders for Fox News, Right Wing Blogs and Glenn Beck.

The overwhelming majority of the public are niether Legislators nor Lawyers and have very little understanding of legal language.



Ah the Leftist toon can not seem to understand that you do not have to have to be a bull-pooping legislator or a lawyer to understand legal language. And what makes you think the bull-poopers know any better than the average citizen.





This is how the legislators understand the legislation put out there.




posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 01:15 PM
link   
reply to post by maybereal11
 





The overwhelming majority of the public are niether Legislators nor Lawyers and have very little understanding of legal language.


Typical of the laity that worship at the alter of the priest class lawyers, you hope to dismiss the heathens who are not legislators and lawyers as being infidels and unworthy of your religious zealotry. So zealous are you in your adoration of legislators and lawyers, you capitalize the first letter in the words, as if they are Messianic.

The priest class have always sought to mystify the truth, and make it appear as if only the privileged few can understand truth, and hold it as sacred things that must be kept away from the majority. You can offer up legalese all you want, or you can speak Pig Latin for all I care. The public is not nearly as stupid as you foolishly would like to believe, and they certainly are smart enough to understand that people like you who worship the priest class set hold them in very low regard. Taking an elitist attitude does not make you one of the elite. Thus far, you have failed to demonstrate anything at all that would suggest you hold a superior intellect, you are too crass to hold a superior social status, and if you do have wealth, it is certainly not a spiritual wealth.

Congress has spent too much time writing up legislative acts that are more than a thousand pages long, filled with tautological phrases and circumlocutory definitions, and when the average person of average intelligence is confronted with this sort of nonsense, in their humble and simple method, they fully understand that this legislation was written with the express purpose of not being understood, and in their infinite wisdom, the average person of average intelligence understands that what is not intended to be understood, should not be understood, and under the law, what cannot be understood, has no force or weight.

So, keep worshiping your priest class legislators and lawyers with capital L's, and stand, sit, kneel, stand, sit, kneel, all you want. Law is self evident, and if it legislation is not self evident, then chances are it is not law. Even the simplest of people are capable of understanding that.



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 03:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by maybereal11
 





The overwhelming majority of the public are niether Legislators nor Lawyers and have very little understanding of legal language.


Typical of the laity that worship at the alter of the priest class lawyers, you hope to dismiss the heathens who are not legislators and lawyers as being infidels and unworthy of your religious zealotry.


You are speaking idiot speak. Rhetorical nonsense.

No where in my post did I belittle those that do not practice law for a living.

I pointed out that simple passages phrased in the legal language designed to speak to Law Enforcement, Prosecuters, Judges and Lawyers is DELIBERTELY TWISTED AND TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT and the fact that most americans do not spend there days interpreting legal language is EXPLOITED by PROPAGANDISTS.

AND I expect no less from this crew than the twisting and BSing of my post itself stating the same.

Carry on with your BS buffet...enjoy being used...and whatever you do...don't look for the truth or answers.

EAT WHAT YOU ARE FED.



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 03:51 PM
link   
reply to post by maybereal11
 


No, I don't understand idiot speak, so you will have to try speaking English. You can backpedal all you want, and your pathetic claim that:




I pointed out that simple passages phrased in the legal language designed to speak to Law Enforcement, Prosecuters, Judges and Lawyers is DELIBERTELY TWISTED AND TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT and the fact that most americans do not spend there days interpreting legal language is EXPLOITED by PROPAGANDISTS.


Only proves my point, in spades. Take note how careful you were to capitalize Law Enforcement, Prosecutors, Judges, and Lawyers, and then take note of how you blatantly refused to capitalize American's. Accident? There ain't no accidents pal. You are not an ally to the American people. You are one of them, and by them, I mean the usurper priest class.

Legislation filled with passages phrased in legal language designed to speak to only the priest class, is legislation that has no intentions of being understood by those who it would prosecute. If legislatures are incapable of writing legislation that is plainly understood by any person of average intelligence, then they are incapable of legislating. Go speak your Pig Latin and idiot speak to your pals. Americans who are only interested in Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness have no need for your PROPAGANDA.



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 04:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by jibeho

Read section 1022 for yourself and tell me what you think it means. I read and cited it. The language is clear.


Here you go..

banking.senate.gov...

Page 1042

I am pretty sure I know what this section addresses...

Exotic financial securities and derivatives and creative financial products of the sort offered by Bernie Madoff et al. where people lost BILLIONS in scams.

It enables the Gov. to investigate suspicious investors like Madoff and take seriously complaints by consumers of those financial products.

What do you think it says?



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 04:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Only proves my point, in spades. Take note how careful you were to capitalize Law Enforcement, Prosecutors, Judges, and Lawyers, and then take note of how you blatantly refused to capitalize American's. Accident? There ain't no accidents pal.


Yes...Busted, Sorry about that. You got me...I am part of the secret society that is trying to destroy america by not consistently capitalizing the letter A in "america"...oops did it again!!! TWICE!! Sorry...I only got my secret "Destroy (a)merica" badge yesterday and am still figuring out all of the special sneaky ways in which to do it. Pretending to forget to capatilize an "A" in a forum post is one of our most obvious tactics.

That usually just makes people despair for the country. You must be special to pick up on it.





[edit on 13-7-2010 by maybereal11]



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 04:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by jibeho

Read section 1022 for yourself and tell me what you think it means. I read and cited it. The language is clear.


Here you go..

banking.senate.gov...

Page 1042

I am pretty sure I know what this section addresses...

Exotic financial securities and derivatives and creative financial products of the sort offered by Bernie Madoff et al. where people lost BILLIONS in scams.

It enables the Gov. to investigate suspicious investors like Madoff and take seriously complaints by consumers of those financial products.

What do you think it says?



You are missing the boat if you think that this

(4) COLLECTION OF INFORMATION- In conducting research on the offering and provision of consumer financial products or services, the Bureau shall have the authority to gather information from time to time regarding the organization, business conduct, markets, and activities of persons operating in consumer financial services markets. In order to gather such information, the Bureau may--
(A) gather and compile information from examination reports concerning covered persons or service providers, assessment of consumer complaints, surveys, and interviews of covered persons and consumers, and review of available databases;
(B) require persons to file with the Bureau, under oath or otherwise, in such form and within such reasonable period of time as the Bureau may prescribe, by rule or order, annual or special reports, or answers in writing to specific questions, furnishing such information as the Bureau may require; andomments
(C) make public such information obtained by the Bureau under this section, as is in the public interest in reports or otherwise in the manner best suited for public information and use.


(e) Information Gathering- In conducting any monitoring or assessment required by this section, the Bureau may gather information through a variety of methods, including by conducting surveys or interviews of consumers.


only applies to the Bernie Madoff's of the US. You have taken the bait, hook, line, and sinker. Good Luck. Folks like Madoff only make up a small percentage of who these new regulators will go after. The same regulators mind you who failed to warn us of the 2008 collapse. This is simply a creation of another monstrous bureaucracy. Wake up.

They will obtain any information/record that they need to conduct an investigation, close a bank, or seize assets. "Any and All" Perhaps they may find a need to examine your accounts depositors someday and compare that to your submitted 1040. They will pass the law first and look to interpret and define later. Just like they are currently doing with Obamacare.



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 05:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by jibeho

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by jibeho

Read section 1022 for yourself and tell me what you think it means. I read and cited it. The language is clear.


Here you go..

banking.senate.gov...

Page 1042

I am pretty sure I know what this section addresses...

Exotic financial securities and derivatives and creative financial products of the sort offered by Bernie Madoff et al. where people lost BILLIONS in scams.

It enables the Gov. to investigate suspicious investors like Madoff and take seriously complaints by consumers of those financial products.

What do you think it says?



You are missing the boat if you think that this

(4) COLLECTION OF INFORMATION- In conducting research on the offering and provision of consumer financial products or services, the Bureau shall have the authority to gather information from time to time regarding the organization, business conduct, markets, and activities of persons operating in consumer financial services markets. In order to gather such information, the Bureau may--
(A) gather and compile information from examination reports concerning covered persons or service providers, assessment of consumer complaints, surveys, and interviews of covered persons and consumers, and review of available databases;
(B) require persons to file with the Bureau, under oath or otherwise, in such form and within such reasonable period of time as the Bureau may prescribe, by rule or order, annual or special reports, or answers in writing to specific questions, furnishing such information as the Bureau may require; andomments
(C) make public such information obtained by the Bureau under this section, as is in the public interest in reports or otherwise in the manner best suited for public information and use.


(e) Information Gathering- In conducting any monitoring or assessment required by this section, the Bureau may gather information through a variety of methods, including by conducting surveys or interviews of consumers.


only applies to the Bernie Madoff's of the US. You have taken the bait, hook, line, and sinker.


Actually I am just reading the bill...without excerpting things out of context...

For example section 1021 clearly explains in the first few sentences it's limitation to financial services and products? Did you miss that?

It's right above the section you cite? I also bolded in your quote where it clearly states what it will investigate? Are you not reading well today?

Otherwise this rhetoric you are aping appears to be a blatent attempt to protect the type of financial swindeling that got us into this mess.

This section was written with Bernie Madoff in mind, I have no doubt. What you are suggesting is that the Gov not be able to field reports of complaints from people that are swindled by the next Madoff, not able to ask investors if they have been cheated or swindled etc. OTHERWISE you want the status-quo which allowed Madoff to steal 30 Billion of peoples retirement savings.

Nowhere in this section does it enable the gov to go poking into folks PERSONAL finances...it limits to people creating and managing financial products that consumers trust are on the up and up.

The text says what it says...you are simply making crap up. Otherwise tell me exactly where you think it lets the gov mess with an individuals personal finances?




Subtitle B—General Powers of the
16 Bureau
17 SEC. 1021. PURPOSE, OBJECTIVES, AND FUNCTIONS.
18 (a) PURPOSE.—The Bureau shall seek to implement
19 and, where applicable, enforce Federal consumer financial
20 law consistently for the purpose of ensuring that markets
21 for consumer financial products and services are fair,
22 transparent, and competitive.

23 (b) OBJECTIVES.—The Bureau is authorized to exer24
cise its authorities under Federal consumer financial law
1 for the purposes of ensuring that, with respect to con
sumer financial products and services




[edit on 13-7-2010 by maybereal11]



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 10:24 PM
link   
reply to post by maybereal11
 


You will clearly see what you want to see. Just remember that the new CFPA created in this disaster would have jurisdiction over any financial activity, product or service to be used by a consumer. The definition of “financial activity” would be determined by the agency, which gives it the authority to expand its scope at will and without congressional approval.

They are going rogue with no oversight. Meanwhile, Freddie and Fannie are allowed to proceed untouched and unmentioned anywhere in this legislation.

What do you think the priorities are considering the mess that these two entities played in the nations current crisis?

Do you understand what gateway legislation is? This is open ended with many details to be determined as they go along. Just do a little reading on HCR since it has passed. They have already missed at least 4 deadlines to establish operational guidelines with that mess. They still don't know who is going to do what.

If you want big bureaucracy, this is your bill. You can have it and you can pay for it.

You need to get over your ire for Madoff and look out for yourself.



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 10:38 PM
link   
2 years ago I said to myself, I've never seen our nation in turmoil and on such a destructive path...

Today I said, I said the same thing.

It gets worse by the day, we can't vote out treasonous corrupt politicians when they hide behind their own laws.



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 10:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by jibeho
Obama wants your freedom!! Its in writing!!


he's too late. i have no freedom if i don't live long enough to learn the amount of laws that exist, let alone what they are.

obama wants my freedom?
define freedom.



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 10:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by xstealth

It gets worse by the day, we can't vote out treasonous corrupt politicians when they hide behind their own laws.


which laws? what laws? can you sight a specific number peraps?


i got an idea. let us pay more taxes for more law makers to make more laws when no child born today can live long enough to learn the number of the existing ones.

but, maybe i'm the crazy one???

ah, what do i know,
et



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 11:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by maybereal11
 


No, I don't understand idiot speak,


Well, it is time to catch up, it seems we may be outnumbered..

Here ya go Jean Paul Zodeaux:
www.urbandictionary.com...



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 11:03 PM
link   
This isn't a big deal for 99.5% of Americans.

They aren't going after the $150 dollars in cash you put in there for selling that ounce.

They are going after the people moving money from the BVI - > Europe - > USA in a big circle.

I am surprised more of you aren't for this since all I hear on this board is how "the rich avoid paying taxes" (somehow).



posted on Jul, 13 2010 @ 11:45 PM
link   
What is funny, here we have a guy that claims that if a law is not instantly clear, or passed by congress (even though they do have the purview to do so under Article I Section 8 of the United States Constitution) then you don't have to follow it. Even though this particular piece of legislation has nothing to do with individuals and everything to do with large financial institutions.


We have others that somehow have made the MASSIVE leap from financial institution regulation to personal documentation.

It's funny as hell that the OP somehow thinks that regulating the financial institutions that crippled our economy is somehow a bad thing. Somehow it's the POTUS taking away your freedom, even though last time I checked, Barney Frank isn't the POTUS.

So in essence, we have members here, blinded by hatred of the government twisting legislation to mean something it doesn't.

They would rather have the status quo, of large financial institutions being able to rip off the American people instead of doing what they are supposed to do under Article I Section 8 of the United States constitution and regulate commerce.







[edit on 7/13/2010 by whatukno]



new topics

top topics



 
26
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join