What is the mechanism behind Astrology? (which I know works)

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by WWu777

 

It gets even more accurate when you use Indian Vedic Astrology

Even Vedic astrology is off a tad...

You might enjoy my thread here...which offers people the positions of the cosmos on their birth like no astrology site will offer you.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Not to sound 'big of myself'....but it is the most accurate account out there, using astronomy as the system to find the positions...

Astrology and Astronomy....long ago, went hand in hand. Im trying to bring this system of workings back, which has been lost now for a couple thousand years.

80% of peoples signs that are given in astrology are wrong, they dont fit the positions of the sun, moon, and planets anymore.

My best LV

So 80 percent of our sun signs are off? I don't see anything in your links that shows me how to calculate my true sign then?

reply to post by WWu777


On the wiki link I gave you....scroll down to the chart box. To the right side of the box chart.....it says at the top of it 'Sun is in Constellation'.....

Look under this part of the chart....and find the date you were born on. See what sign it shows you to the left of your date.

Sun is in constellation

Aries....April 17 - May 13

Taurus....May 14 - June 19

Gemini...June 20 - July 20

Cancer....July 21 - August 9

Leo...August 10 - September 15

Virgo...September 16 - October 30

Libra...October 31 - November 22

Scorpio...November 23 - November 29 (notice the sun is not here long)

Ophiuchus...November 30 - December 17 (a sign astrology ignores)

Sagittarius...December 18 - January 17

Capricorn....January 18 - February 15

Aquarius...February 16 - March 11

Pisces....March 12 - April 16


en.wikipedia.org...

You can see on this chart...that the tropical dates and sidereal dates (vedic) are also posted. The tropical uses the positions of the stars 2000 years ago, like my first posts in this thread showed. The sidereal (vedic) does account for precession but ignores that the signs do not share equal space in the sky and still ignores Ophiuchus even though the Sun spends more time in Ophiuchus then it does Scorpio.

Often you can go to an astrology site and it will tell you what planets are in your sign right now and that they are affecting you. Even this is most of the time wrong....for example, I saw sites telling people that Saturn is getting ready to leave Virgo....and this will be a relief for Virgos. This is wrong, it just recently has entered Virgo after spending a long time in Leo (you could look into the night sky and see this was so)....Saturn will be in Virgo for a long time.

There are many things wrong with general astrology that is offering people information.


My first post to you gave the same wiki link...it was a really long posts trying to explain how all of this could be so.



[edit on 12-7-2010 by LeoVirgo]

LeoVirgo.
According to your chart, I'm an Aquarius then, not a Pisces. Yikes. I do have some traits that fit Aquarius, but I've always fit the Pisces traits pretty well too, well most of them that is.

But if it's mostly wrong, then how come birthcharts can be so accurate sometimes?

Originally posted by WWu777
LeoVirgo.
According to your chart, I'm an Aquarius then, not a Pisces. Yikes. I do have some traits that fit Aquarius, but I've always fit the Pisces traits pretty well too, well most of them that is.

But if it's mostly wrong, then how come birthcharts can be so accurate sometimes?

Well to offer my perspective of why the chart of 2000 years ago resonates with many still is limited to my own personal view....all things should be weighed by each of us...so I caution that this is my understanding.

Through my studies of all of this over the last 2-3 years....I have gained the belief in reincarnation...and that some of us are incarnating through the great year....into every age.

This idea would reflect that our 'past' sign that astrology offers us...tells us of our 'past life' in a sense....traits and attributes that are defiantly tied to us from the past...things that we have already aligned to and now resonate with. My past sign of Virgo served me well through my time from birth till about age 30. It was not till I was ready to work on THIS life...that Leo became useful for me in this life. Virgo resonates with me still, I carry many of the traits of Virgo....but have also grown...since I faced the Leo sign I was born in. It helped me work on this I needed to work on. It helped me understand my path in this life, after 'growing up'.

Let me offer you an example again....

All over the web, astrology sites said that the total solar eclipse happened in Cancer.

Lets look at something...to check this....

You can go to heavensabove.com which uses astronomy, the true positions of the cosmos....

www.heavens-above.com...

Go down to the astronomy section and click on 'sun' and it will bring you to here....

www.heavens-above.com...

Now click on the button on the top that says 'previous' to gain yesterdays suns position....

You will see the Sun was clearly in Gemini...during the solar eclipse.

For an eclipse to happen, the Sun and moon have to be in the same sign....

Go to the home page again, in the first above link....and go down and click on the 'moon' button.

It will take you to here...
www.heavens-above.com...

On that link, again, click on the 'previous button' to go back a day to see where the moon was yesterday.....

Sun and moon were in Gemini, yesterday.....even though thousands and thousands of astrology sites are saying it occurred in Cancer.

You can click on the 'sun' link.....and hit the 'previous button' or the 'next button' as often as you like....you can click it to see even where the sun was on your birth (if you feel like clicking that much )

You can check this site daily for sun, moon, and planets positions.....

Something else I pulled from an astrology site this morning was the following info....

Sun in cancer...
Mercury in Leo...
Venus in Virgo...
Mars in Virgo...
Jupiter in Aries...

I pulled the above from here
www.cafeastrology.com...

Now lets look at the planetary data from heavens above....

www.heavens-above.com...

Not one single match

This all led me on a 2 year search for understanding...which led me to see alot of things....which led me to create the thread I did called 'the energies of the cosmos-on your birth'.

I dont mean to upturn the apple cart

My best
LV

reply to post by WWu777

According to your chart, I'm an Aquarius then, not a Pisces. Yikes. I do have some traits that fit Aquarius, but I've always fit the Pisces traits pretty well too, well most of them that is.

Your Pisces is your 'past' sign....and something I would note is that we are currently in the age of Pisces still.

Your true sign of Aquarius....is the age we are moving into soon (our coming age).

This may be a deeper meaning then just offering you traits....it may be showing you where your at on your cosmos path.

Just suggestions there. I cant stress enough how our connections to the energies around us are a 'personal path' and how it really doesn't become fully useful till we start to look within for the meaning, instead of looking to another man to tell us what it means.

On the surface, we might see traits....on a deeper level, we might find our journey.

reply to post by WWu777

if it's mostly wrong, then how come birthcharts can be so accurate sometimes?

Just because an influence is not strongest doesn't mean that it isn't there. And even influences that are very weak are still present. And there is the ability of an individual to receive those influences.

The suns rays seem most intense at high noon because they are hitting us at a 90 degree angle. But even during late afternoon, those rays are still hitting us. It doesn't suddenly get dark at 12:01 just because the angle is not exactly 90 degrees.

In the case of astrology, rather than there being a single sun, it's more like are many stars positioned at intervals of degrees, each of which emits its own frequency of light. When blue is at 90 degrees, and green is at 75 degrees, you're still going to be receiving green light, even if blue is hitting you more squarely.

And there is resonance. When you tune you radio to a particular frequency, all of the other frequencies are still there...your radio just isn't picking them up. Similarly, people of different character have differing potential to receive the vibrations of each planetary influence. If you shine a blue light on a white object, it will appear blue. If you shine blue light on a grayish object, it might appear bluish, but it won't exhibit the same tone of blue as the white object. Two people each born under the same influences may not manifest them in the same way.

reply to post by WWu777


Dear All,
Is it just me who thinks that Astrology, Palmistry etc are also the earliest forms of Statistics?
If one thinks deeper on these lines will probably understand what I mean.
In my country Astrology is a very important part of life, I come from the Hindu priest family, I am a Scorpio by Solar Calendar and Cancer by Lunar(Vedic Astrology).
In the Families of the Priests its very critical to check the "Muhurta Balam" literally "Strength of the Time", when an individual with certain planetary influences( Planets emit lights and one theory in Indian Astronomy says that light is a form of Vibration) does the task at a particular "time" his rate of success can be predicted accurately.
Task: sanskrit word is Karma: Karma- Action, Task, to do, an action leading to fate.

The Vedic Astrology emphasizes on two parameters: Nakshatra( Star) and Position of Moon in the particular Zodiac and the relative position of the Sun. Vedic Astrology at first looked like Lunarcentric to me, later I found its more Heliocentric than what it looks.

The Astrology in general uses a basic tool of mathematics: statistics, the sanskrit word for statistics has been Ankaganit( Anka= Numbers, Ganit: Mathematics).

This is a strange blend of Astral energy sciences and Mathematics. Thats the only scientific description I can probably think of at this moment.

Cheers
Karthik

reply to post by Karthik1981


Even Vedic is a bit off if you wish to have true observations of the night sky.

Vedic ignores Ophiuchus and ignores that the 'constellations' are of different sizes then the 'signs'.

If there is any worth of the theory of a electric universe and that we are all connected by energy/electricity/magnetically to each sphere.....then 'astronomy/astrology might have some real worth to it in that when a observer realigns 'him/her' self to the true positions of the spheres from their birth to today's changes, it may be like fixing a clock that is out of sync.

This is something I have been studying for a couple years and I am finding that no astrology offers the true observations of the changes of our sky due to the wobble of our Earth that happens through a great years time (26,000 years). Every 26,000 years, the Earth realigns to a point that it once was. Throughout the great year, our Earth wobbles around like a spinning top. Its North star changes, the rising of the sun at our equinoxes and solstices changes 'signs' over time....this is how we have a changing of the ages through out a great year.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Interesting fact you brought up LeoVirgo, thanks for the post.

I have observed that being a Scorpio male I blend well with Pisces females
and Virgo Females. But Its hell for me to deal with Aries and I avoid Leo woman for some reason.

the mechanism behind 'astrology'...
(see wikipedia -> biorhythms) en.wikipedia.org...

Biorhythm is an attempt to predict various aspects of a person's life through simple mathematical cycles. The notion has no more predictive power than chance, and has been labeled a pseudoscience by skeptics...



According to believers in biorhythms, a person's life is affected by rhythmic biological cycles which affect one's ability in various domains, such as mental, physical, and emotional activity. These cycles begin at birth and oscillate in a steady sine wave fashion throughout life; thus, by modeling them mathematically, a person's level of ability in each of these domains can be predicted from day to day.



The notion of periodic cycles in human fortunes is ancient; found for instance in natal astrology and in folk beliefs about "lucky days." The 23- and 28-day rhythms used by biorhythmists, however, were first devised in the late nineteenth century by William Fliess, a Berlin physician and patient of Sigmund Freud. Fliess believed that he observed regularities at 23- and 28-day intervals in a number of phenomena, including births and deaths. He labelled the 23-day rhythm "male" and the 28-day rhythm "female", matching the menstrual cycle

Plausibility

Proponents of biorhythmics call it an established interdisciplinary area of scientific endeavor which is still speculative—a protoscience. Critics state that biorhythms are based only upon numerological associations. The plausibility of biorhythmics is contested by mathematicians, biologists and other scientists.[citation needed] The most basic assertion is that even if it is assumed that physiological rhythms do exist, it's not clear why they should necessarily begin on the day of one's birth.

In some ways, biorhythmics resembles chronobiology, the study of biological rhythms. Through medical research, doctors have found that there are periodic biological cycles in a person's lifespan, such as the circadian rhythm (from Latin circa diem; literally, "about a day"), but few doctors believe they correspond to those described as "biorhythms". To proponents, these discoveries (among others) demonstrate that people are affected by physiological, emotional and intellectual rhythms, though the exact relationships to the biorhythm cycles are not precisely understood. Studies regarding the effects of biorhythms on the human condition are still conducted

my insight:
ancient astrologers were firmly convinced that the 'heavens' controlled or at least directed these biorhythm cycles in the individual and built a religion/ideology around this...[the music of the spheres]




[edit on 26-7-2010 by St Udio]

Originally posted by Karthik1981
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Interesting fact you brought up LeoVirgo, thanks for the post.

I have observed that being a Scorpio male I blend well with Pisces females
and Virgo Females. But Its hell for me to deal with Aries and I avoid Leo woman for some reason.

Ironically, most of the signs people think they are, do not match the positions of the cosmos at their birth anymore. So often we think we are one thing and others are another, but if we look up where the Sun really was on everyone's birth...only about 20% of them will match using astrology of any kind.

I use astronomy to figure the positions in the wheel....and many people are not born under the sign they thought they were, but many also find that the sign that they are of offers them more when it comes to their growth as a adult....offering the things they need to work on in this life.

True Scorpios are the rarest...for the Sun is only in Scorpio truly for about 6 days out of the year.

Who you think might be Pisces or Aries or leo ect...might not be. I thought I was Virgo...and this past sign fit me for a long time in my life, but finding out the Sun really rose in Leo on my birth offers me what Im in need of working on as an adult...growing up and maturing and facing things.

Its a most interesting study....
LV

Originally posted by LeoVirgo

Originally posted by Karthik1981
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

True Scorpios are the rarest...for the Sun is only in Scorpio truly for about 6 days out of the year.


LV

How do I find out if I am a true scorpio? I was born on 17.11.1981, at 4.30 am, then I will have to look at the planetary position using? You mean I will have to go and get the Planetary positions record? but from where?

[edit on 27-7-2010 by Karthik1981]

Originally posted by Karthik1981

Originally posted by LeoVirgo

Originally posted by Karthik1981
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

True Scorpios are the rarest...for the Sun is only in Scorpio truly for about 6 days out of the year.


LV

How do I find out if I am a true scorpio? I was born on 17.11.1981, at 4.30 am, then I will have to look at the planetary position using? You mean I will have to go and get the Planetary positions record? but from where?

[edit on 27-7-2010 by Karthik1981]

Hi again..

Here is a link you can use....type in your birth date...time...then click the 'east' button at the bottom....wait for it to load...maybe click the 'horizon' button to get rid of the horizon....you should be able to see the Sun in the east, sitting below the horizon....in Libra, on your birth.

www.starrynighteducation.com...=4&LatD=33&LatM=31.260000000000048&LatRG=N&LonD=86&LonM=48.179999999999836&LonRG=W&HH=04&Min =30&AmPm=1&MM=11&DD=17&YY=1981&DST=No&SD=No&LocMMA=&LabStar=Yes&Lab=Yes&Cons=Yes&Hor=No&SG=&PW=410&PH=358&Az=90&FOV=90&Alt=-20&Elev=3&LocN=Earth&Explo re=No&

Hre is the image I saved from it, using your time and date...showing the sun and some other planets...




You can scroll down on the below link and find the 'chart'. One segment shows 'astrology' (past positions)....one segment shows 'sidereal' (some current some past positions).....and the last segment on the far right of the chart shows ""Sun is in constellation"".....under Scorpio it shows dates November 23 - November 29.

en.wikipedia.org...

All my best
LV

Originally posted by WWu777
So what is the mechanism behind it exactly? Anyone know? Can it even be put into words? Or is this one of those things that words can never describe?

no, there definitely is an answer - one that makes perfect sense, at least to me.

many years ago, i became curious about astrology because when i looked at my own birth chart and such, it always seemed to fit to a "T" - and i don't mean the newspaper horoscopes but true analysis by those that study the art.

and so i thought, maybe it's just one of those suggestive "one size fits all" things and so i checked out other birth profiles, sometimes made up, or whatever, and they never fit me, even loosely!

so i undertook a personal informal research project over the course of several years - it was informal but as serious as can be. i wanted to know the truth of it all.

during my research, anyone i met or already knew was my subject for study and everyone was always willing and amiable about it, and most were curious as to their own natal chart. i learned how to draw a basic chart and had a few books that were just perfect for my task.

for everyone that i studied, the results were 100%, without exception.
by 100% i mean this:
for those that i knew well, both they and i agreed that the chart described their personality, traits, tendencies, and habits, to a "T".
for those i was only acquainted with, and didn't know well as a friend, they stated, without hesitation, that the chart described them in the same way, to a "T," also!

most, if not all, were amazed at the accuracy of the descriptions.

i was amazed to say the least.
in not one case was the chart off base or even met with a neutral response.
everyone was positive and pleased.
i also did charts on people that were already crossed over, like my dad and other family members i knew very well.

still, 100%.

what kind of experiment has those kinds of results?

of course, the only controls i did were on my self, and a few people i knew very very well.
if i changed the time of birth even by an hour, the chart didn't fit!
not ever!

in fact, a few people were wrong in recalling the time of their birth, usually by way of thinking AM but it was PM. when their chart didn't work out, i tried it with potentially corrected data and it did fit!
and then, after they had asked their mom or looked on their birth certificate, they'd call me and say "hey, guess what, you were right!!!!"

that's even more amazing.
if they couldn't recall their exact time of birth, i didn't guess or let them guess.
i just went with high noon which is standard practice for that situation, i think
it worked, too. just knowing the date and place works just as accurately although the analysis is not as deep as far as aspects, etc.

so. this doesn't explain why.
i wondered why in all the years since then. i started my data gathering around the mid 90's and continued on until the middle 2000's. my life situation changed twice in that decade and so i had the opportunity to make new friends and meet many people and therefore gain a large data base for study. it was ideal!

but now, 5 years later, i know HOW it works, too.

people assume that it is the planets and what-not, that influence these things - human personality, character, and life situations and opportunities.

but that never sat well with me.
i believe in GOD as the Ancient of Days and Creator of ALL.
i am not religious so it had nothing to do with fear or thinking i was sinning - in fact, it is clear to me in the bible that GOD speaks to us in all of nature, including the cosmos.
but i also know that Heaven rules Earth - meaning Spirit rules Matter, no exceptions!

and that is exactly the mechanism for the astounding connection of astrology.

it is WE who INFLUENCE and AFFECT the cosmos!
especially in our little Solar System.
our thoughts, intentions, deeds, and actions shape the material world we live in!
we do this in tandem without Creator but we have a major role in creation, too, because our cosmic neighborhood is our Mother's World!
the other planets are in a family with our Earth - her brothers and sisters.

the sun is our source of energy and a manifestation of the true light of the Most High God - our Father

the water is the nourishing life through which our Mother sends her love and care, like an infusion, into all her children, both animal and plants, alike.

the moon is the reflection that we can actually look at, of our Father, who i
s the light that is life, and so the moon is the director of physical creation - that is why it's phases affect so many things including the tide. the moon is our Brother/Sister, then. it is our link to our Father and Mother.

but we cannot survive without both light and water.

each "family member" has a unique role, and it is through the role of each that our influence manifests.
here is a run-down of what i mean:

Mercury is of the mind
Venus is of love
Earth is of the physical, the flesh
Mars is of anger and passion
Jupiter is strength
Saturn is the recycle center - it is where "all insufficient matter is returned for use again, in new form"
Neptune is of the psychic, of the soul
Uranus is of the mystic, the mystery of spirit

Pluto is not part of the family in the same way the other 7, plus Earth, are.
it is still part of the family but not immediate family.
not a sister or brother of earth but more like extended family.

Pluto's influence in astrology has done nothing but wreak havoc because it is not of the natural order of things.

it has its own position of authority, over the bodies sharing its same profile, but when it is subjected to another authority, such as the sun or Jupiter, it is a mess! it causes literal discord. it is named correctly, in the sense of being the lord of the underworld, Hades...who rides Charon. but death is not to be a natural part of our world on Earth.

the changes taking place on other planets and their moons are not just random accidents or progressive occurrences. they are a direct result of our exploratory efforts in space and this endeavor brings thoughts of these things into the minds of many in ways never before possible. it is through these thoughts that the changes come into being!

for instance, the reason Venus has no tectonic activity is because love has not dominated the mind of mankind. when it does, in the near future, i wonder what will happen on Venus?

Mars, on the other hand, is not as hostile in our minds as it was, since we've been able to land the rovers on its surface and take images that now anyone with an internet connection can explore, via Google Earth. the tectonic activity of gigantic proportions on its surface were wrought through violence and wars on Earth.

now, granted, these events on other planets supposedly happened long long ago, according to our way of measuring time.
but for thought and its influence, time is not a barrier.

thought is information and is likely the 5th dimension. the 3rd being space and the 4th being time.
therefore, from the perspective of the 5th dimension, the influence of time is like the influence of a straight line on our own perspective from the 3rd dimension. we can see all around it and it poses no barrier of any kind to our movements and activities.

however, these new changes are coming around the same "time" as our thoughts are multiplying in regard to our cosmic environment. this isn't because of time but rather has to do with the numbers - the amount of thought being generated in that regard. also, i suspect that as we get ever closer to the "end of time" - meaning when we escape our 3d box and then fly through the 4d box into the 5th dimension, where we will no longer be subject to "time" - that the manifestations of our thoughts are becoming increasingly closer. it is exponential in its growth, as well, and will eventually happen simultaneously right at the very end of this present age of Pisces.

we are now on the cusp between Pisces and Aquarius - both a little bit "in" each at the same time and not fully in one or the other. we are leaving Pisces and entering Aquarius.

remember, the Age of Aquarius song was done by The Fifth Dimension!

there are NO coincidences - only convergence!