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The Truth Behind The ET Conspiracy.

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posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 03:58 PM
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The bottom line is that if this guys source was an engineer and any of this was true the engineer would have some theoretical science to prove it is true.. something of value scientifically to give his story merit. But of course all he has is physical evicence which he can't give up.. that should tell everyone here hwat is going on.

And then telling all this publicly without asking the sources permission.. I still don't buy that for a minute.




posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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hornum, Thank you for your posts… For those of us with open minds who neither have evidence to believe nor disbelieve your story... Could you please answer or ask Terry about these questions? I would be greatly interested in your take...

- How does evil expect allegiance if it inflicts harm on those it wants allegiance from? You cannot force people to love you. To make people suffer and offer to rescue them if they hand over their freewill is sick thinking.

- You have mentioned those of light... Could you please further expand your understanding of who they are and how those that are dedicated to good can best represent them... so to speak

- How could a god who loves allow its children to be completely perverted by a world controlled by evil?



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 04:32 PM
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Whilst the OP's story is reasonably interesting, it sounds like complete and utter fantasy. Either he's taking us all for one huge ride, or he's not of sound mind.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by oxbow]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by oxbow
Whilst the OP's story is reasonably interesting, it sounds like complete and utter fantasy. Either he's taking us all for one huge ride, or he's not of sound mind.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by oxbow]


He's not of sound mind. He may actually believe what he is saying is true. That's even scarier.

ATS should enforce a "do not post wild claims unless at the time of your post you have physical evidence or scientific formulae to back them up" policy.

[edit on 7/28/2010 by pjslug]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 05:12 PM
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The funniest part is that it is ok for him to talk about this disappearing element that no one has seen before yet if he actually makes it available then he is in danger because they would know who provided it.

If he can talk about it why can't he provide it physically? If they can track him down by it being made public why can't they track it down just by him talking about it as well?

That's the final nail in the coffin of this story, IMO.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by 8311-XHT]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by hornum
 

Well, it's been almost 3 weeks, 14 pages and so far not a shred of evidence has been offered.

Many people have posted what a good story this is and I think that's exactly what it is, a story. It certainly has all the hallmarks of a piece of fiction (lots of descriptive background detail but few 'facts' for example)

The OP touched on many of the more popular conspiracy theories -

WW2 Nazi UFOs
secret Moon bases
Masonry
Knights Templar
abductions & GE programs
TPTB and their secret bloodlines
religion as a manipulation tool to storyboard the “Great Deception”
gods of Light & Dark
etc etc.

As such perhaps this should be in the Short Stories Discussion Forum or the Fantasy & Science Fiction Discussion Forum


The only actual physical evidence mentioned amounts to -

the Zonium metal filings

the “palmbook” black rock PC with the "3D desktop in my head"

the photographs

Everything else is simply anecdote, which we have to accept at face value or leave the thread as indicated by hornum's quote here -


I stand by what I have said and what I know, I ask those who find this difficult to deal with to ignore my thread.

I don't find it difficult to deal with, I find it difficult to believe since you have provided no evidence at all for your wild claims.


To those who think that what I have said here is a lie, think again. You are trying to debunk this thread and can't, the reason being that it is truth...

I'm sorry but just saying it's the truth doesn't make it so. And it's not a case of people debunking the thread, it's a matter of you supporting it, by providing some evidence.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan

You're the one making the claims and the onus is on you to provide the evidence. You already know that. You said as much in your own thread which I referred to back on page 5 where you said


I don't understand how so many people can be so convinced of these things with so little evidence, prove me wrong?

Again I ask you - do you really expect us to be convinced without evidence when you wouldn't yourself?

So, to the evidence.

Any chance of footage of the Zonium becoming visible/invisible when a vacuum is applied/released?

Any chance of a look at even one of the photos?

Any more you can tell us about the “palmbook”, such as what 'files' you were able to view? I'd have thought such a revolutionary device worthy of a thread of its own, yet you skipped over it in a short paragraph.

You don't need to worry about exposing Terry - as Dr Jay has pointed out here (3 times now and you're still ignoring their question) you've already provided ample information which would lead the agencies to identify Terry and his friend Red.

[edit on 28/7/10 by Crazy Man Michael]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 07:16 PM
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I really don't even think the story is that good, if I was an attention seeking pathalogical liar like the OP I could come up with something much better.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 09:46 PM
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Listen...I believe he is getting info from this duded Terry...Now what Terry is feeding him may not be true...

But let me point one thing out...WE ARE ALL STILL CHECKING THIS THREAD...to see the new developments.

Some have posted multiple times how they think this is a crook.(When I think something is false I stop reading it)
One went as far as to impersonate this man.

Lets give him a chance he may have something that may help us understand the BIG COVER-UP (because as we all know there is one)

In the words of Thump's mother."If you don't have something nice to say, don't say nothing at all.

Hornum,Please u2u with the rest if you can finish on here...

[edit on 28-7-2010 by zbeliever]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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I am just trying to give this person a chance to prove they are telling the truth because what they have said so far doesn't fly at all.

If they are telling the truth they need to try much much harder to prove what they are saying because it shouldn't be so hard considering the situation.

If their friend is really an engineer who was so valuable to their cause then it should be child's play proving their story valid.

To miss something so obvious speaks volumes.. BUT I am giving this person a tiny benefit of the doubt that they could rectify this if by some miracle they were telling the truth and just went about this in a horrible fashion.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:00 PM
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I am wondering: is it possible to have a thread in this forum moved to the hoax bin? Beacause if there ever was a represenative to be elected for that I would certianly vote for this thread. I have not gone over all of the replies in this thread; but as far as I can tell there is only one (censored) reply by the OP past the OP which; due to a diligent ATS member was vetted for others to see: which rather clearly indicated that said OP was not even remotely serious. So: to reiterate; if an OP makes it satirically clear that they were not serious - perhasp they should be retired to the HOAX BIN!



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:57 PM
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reply to post by Crazy Man Michael
 


Like you I have asked for more from Hornum and am eagerly awaiting his next post.

Almost daily I have checked back on this thread's progress in hopes Hornum will continue his story, answer the questions and/or provide some proof.

However, he has stated several times that he needs some time.

This quote from HORNUM's last post
- "I will be answering all questions soon as time is not abundant for me at this time as I have already stated. I will post a transcript taken from my recording to clear up a few things when I can."
Should be enough to allow Hornum to be presented with the time needed to compose the next post.

With the exception of a few negative posters, I have read MANY intelligent and logical post in this thread. With that said, I think there are enough intelligent & logical ATS Members waiting like us for Hornum - continue his story, answer the questions and/or provide some proof.

If/When he finishes and we are left wanting, I will join you in requesting that some proof regardless of how small or large be presented or report this to the ATS Moderators.

Besides my right brain is craving more. So many odd and intriguing things have occurred in this thread that I start to get a tad excited while I begin logging online. I also have to admit that after reviewing the ATS HOME Page and Breaking News I check on this thread before I even check my own threads.

Hope this makes at least a wafer thin case to give the OP more time to make his case.

Excellent Post - Star

t



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 12:56 AM
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This is really ridiculous. Is it that hard to believe? I mean really, I would've thought that ATSers had already pieced most of this stuff together by now but come on... the guy is not perfect. Yes, he's a good writer, but as an experienced writer myself all I see is someone who uses imagery decently. Even in the "hood" I've seen people that can't read, nevertheless write, but when they speak they paint pictures for you. It just comes naturally to some people. This doesn't make him a disinfo agent.

He also has already stated that he CANNOT provide physical proof. So stop asking! It's annoying having to filter through everyone's repetitive questions which are only posed to thwart the man's attempt at shedding light on a subject NONE OF YOU SEEM TO UNDERSTAND! I can identify with him knowing things because of what he's seen/experienced, but not being able to connect it all. It's up to YOU to research and validate. Choices, choices...

I've been dabbling in the occult for a while and specifically in alchemy (the roots go back further than you could physically trace; it has been studied under many different names). I vouch for his explanations concerning gods and certain spiritual aspects. I am willing to bet on the fact that everyone who denies these spiritual claims has never meditated for a consistent period of time (meaning months or years). As above, so below. As your worldly self is ignorant, so is your spiritual self. We live in a universe of duality; if you debate that basic philosophy you shouldn't even be on this site.

Science is just now starting to prove the basics of alchemy, which includes the methods needed to go BEYOND the mind and it's duality (ultimately, "enlightenment"). Our minds are crippling us from seeing truth! Your comprehension has limits when you only rely on your physical senses! Quantum physics is proving that the reality we see is FAKE and the OP is just trying to open your eyes to a part of this truth, yet he's CRUCIFIED by people who claim to deny ignorance without knowing wth they're talking about!
I'd like to clarify that religions have always been telling us things that are provided in this thread, such as a future where we would be duped into picking our own apocalypse. Holy books are not meant to be taken only literally but also metaphorically. They're allegories.

Because I'm sick of petty bickering on this thread stemming from people's lack of understanding, I will ATTEMPT to help connect this loosely; further research of your own is necessary.
This post will help explain how a one world government is and has been in place for a long time already. It explains much of the secret society role in the OP's story. The life we live is dramatic like a play, a tragic comedy depending on the viewer. We all play a part. [A must read thread in my opinion.] All Roads Lead to Rome

Next, think about what REALLY happened to the Nazis because they play a key role in what is going on. The OP claims that we have been on the moon since the 40s... were Adolph's Hitler's remains really ever found? Did he really commit suicide? DNA testing has proved that what we thought to be Hitler's skull was actually of a female. Do not just think based on what you know. Everything can't be spoon fed to you.

Do you really know anything about what Hitler was actually into? Seriously? He was into some really advanced/ancient stuff related to the occult and advanced technologies. Don't you think his appearance in history and what he did was a little... odd? I am only offering these references because I've also been in this situation. This is how disinfo works. People who may not be conscious disinfo agents make others seem ignorant because they don't know.

I'm not trying to think for anyone here, but you should at least choose to deny ignorance. Ignorance is the lack of understanding. Do you really understand why things happen?

[edit on 29-7-2010 by prepared4truth]



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 01:35 AM
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I don't really care if someone is making up a story.. that seems like par for the course on a site like this... but in my case I WILL point out the holes in someone's story if they are there.. and there are huge gaping holes in this story that make no sense.

You can't blame people for calling someone on these holes when someone makes vocal claims that don't simply don't add up in any way.

If someone makes straight forward claims we have a choice whether to accept it or not and move along.

But what makes this case different is that the OP seems to be claiming that this is somekind of warning, to him and to us. This makes it all the more serious and something like that can't be taken lightly and it puts it under even more extreme scrutiny and opens the person up for criticism, in my opinion.



[edit on 29-7-2010 by 8311-XHT]



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by 8311-XHT
 


This is all true. Criticism is definitely necessary for a person to decipher truth. Trust me, deciphering alchemical texts is much the same.

However, there's a difference between deciphering straight up bull# and deciphering human mistakes. Man's memory is not perfect and in some instances, especially when dealing with a story that is being passed down through people, you can see where a person just made an honest mistake. For people (and i don't mean you specifically) to stab at the man's character because of loopholes in the way he phrased something is absolutely ludicrous.

I am one of those people that appreciates a GOOD debate. Not repetitive slandering based on ignorance, which I come across quite frequently while reading this thread.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 12:15 PM
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Hey.

Cool story ..and there is some truth behind it also..

The UFO-technology is manmade. period. It was discovered in the late 19th century by Nikola Tesla which he based on earlier scientific findings by Edwin Hall and others.
Sure some of magnetic discoveries are “ancient”, but a lot of these stories of “ancient high-technology” are just myths, or even hoaxes. ..”flying saucer technology” came from Tesla, and it is around a 100 years old invention, anti-gravity propulsion technology I mean.

And when you understand that, then bases on the moon isn’t that hard to believe..
Must be quite a wild experience for a first timer ..lol


These ge-humanoids on the other hand, I have a hard time believing. These are most likely part of the propaganda to back this Tesla technology theft-secret by the so called Illuminati (JP Morgan, Rockefellers, Rothschild Edison and so on..)
Thou human is an odd creation .. I have understood that we can train ourselves to live without food and water and become “autotrophs” ..but to live on the moon without a suit, that’s quite a thing anyway ..lol


Also, these Masonic Dark God-myths are just “spiritual propaganda”, which have been passed on for hundreds and hundreds of years ..there are no good and bad gods communicating with masons and the illuminati ..only human-spirits.

I have looked into the ancient scriptures and nothing there or in the later texts tells that humans have been communicating to “other planetary entities” or to actual Creator(s), only to spirit-humans.
Human spirit world, exists also on planet Earth, but only on it’s “etheric”-dimension(s) ..but the Creator Of this Universe, or any other ( possible) Creator, have not communicated to humanity …only spirit-humans.

I have read, thou I can’t say I know that 33 degree Masons are introduced to these spirits, who pretend to be Masonic gods ,in their 33-initiation rite ..and it is a “powerful” phenomenon, no doubt, so I’m sure most of them tend to swallow the lie ..that they supposedly are communicating with a god. But in reality it’s only “dead” human spirits, most likely members of the illuminati who play this god-role with “astral-telepathy”.



Here’s a quote from Nikola Tesla in 1911 on his anti-gravity flying machine:


TESLA'S NEW MONARCH OF MACHINES by Nikola Tesla -New York Herald Tribune, Oct. 15, 1911


“..And it makes the aeroplane practical,” I suggested.

Not the aeroplane, the flying machine,” responded Dr. Tesla. “Now you have struck the point in which I am most deeply interested—the object toward which I have been devoting my energies for more than twenty years—the dream of my life. It was in seeking the means of making the perfect flying machine that I developed this engine.
“Twenty years ago I believed that I would be the first man to fly; that I was on the track of accomplishing what no one else was anywhere near reaching. I was working entirely in electricity then and did not realize that the gasoline engine was approaching a perfection that was going to make the aeroplane feasible. There is nothing new about the aeroplane but its engine, you know.
“What I was working on twenty years ago was the wireless transmission of electric power. My idea was a flying machine propelled by an electric motor, with power supplied from stations on the earth. I have not accomplished this as yet, but am confident that I will in time.
“When I found that I had been anticipated as to the flying machine, by men working in a different field, I began to study the problem from other angles, to regard it as a mechanical rather than an electrical problem. I felt certain there must be some means of obtaining power that was better than any now in use. And by vigorous use of my gray matter for a number of years, I grasped the possibilities of the principle of the viscosity and adhesion of fluids and conceived the mechanism of my engine. Now that I have it, my next step will be the perfect flying machine.”

“An aeroplane driven by your engine?” I asked.

“Not at all,” said Dr. Tesla. “The aeroplane is fatally defective. It is merely a toy—a sporting play-thing. It can never become commercially practical. It has fatal defects. One is the fact that when it encounters a downward current of air it is helpless. The “hole in the air” of which aviators speak is simply a downward current, and unless the aeroplane is high enough above the earth to move laterally but can do nothing but fall.
“There is no way of detecting these downward currents, no way of avoiding them, and therefore the aeroplane must always be subject to chance and its operator to the risk of fatal accident. Sportsmen will always take these chances, but as a business proposition the risk is too great.

The flying machine of the future—my flying machine—will be heavier than air, but it will not be an aeroplane. It will have no wings. It will be substantial, solid, stable. You cannot have a stable airplane. The gyroscope can never be successfully applied to the airplane, for it would give a stability that would result in the machine being torn to pieces by the wind, just as the unprotected aeroplane on the ground is torn to pieces by a high wind.
“My flying machine will have neither wings nor propellers. You might see it on the ground and you would never guess that it was a flying machine. Yet it will be able to move at will through the air in any direction with perfect safety, higher speeds than have yet been reached, regardless of weather and oblivious of “holes in the air” or downward currents. It will ascend in such currents if desired. It can remain absolutely stationary in the air, even in a wind, for great length of time. Its lifting power will not depend upon any such delicate devices as the bird has to employ, but upon positive mechanical action.”

“You will get stability through gyroscopes?” I asked.

“Through gyroscopic action of my engine, assisted by some devices I am not yet prepared to talk about,” he replied.
“Powerful air currents that may be deflected at will, if produced by engines and compressors sufficiently light and powerful, might lift a heavy body off the ground and propel it through the air,” I ventured, wondering if I had grasped the inventor’s secret.
Dr. Tesla smiled an inscrutable smile.
All I have to say on that point is that my airship will have neither gas bag, wings nor propellers,” he said. “It is the child of my dreams, the product of years of intense and painful toil and research. I am not going to talk about it any further. But whatever my airship may be, here at least is an engine that will do things that no other engine ever has done, and that is something tangible.” -New York Herald Tribune, Oct. 15, 1911
www.tfcbooks.com...




Here are links to information about this Tesla-flying saucer which might interest you and others

Tesla's Dynamic Theory of Gravity by William Lyne
peswiki.com...:Tesla's_Dynamic_Theory_of_Gravity

PowerPedia:Tesla's Flying Machine
peswiki.com...

On this pdf is gathered quoted by Nikola Tesla regarding his “Flying machine” ..which is the “UFO”
Tesla’s (real) Flying Machine
pritchardschool.com...

Video material on the subject, which can also be found as torrents

Hitler's Secret Flying Saucers, a studio discussion with William Lyne:
video.google.com...

Nazi Ufos How They Fly, a studio discussion with William Lyne:
www.guba.com...


Pdf-version of William Lyne's books:

Occult Ether Physics - Tesla's Hidden Space Propulsion System and The Conspiracy To Conceal It
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Pentagon Aliens
www.scribd.com...

Laters.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 02:42 AM
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reply to post by cee420
 


I gave you a star for your post because I liked what you had to say, even though I disagreed with some of it. But there was one thing I really disagreed with, and makes one wonder if Tesla was really in his right mind:


“Not at all,” said Dr. Tesla. “The aeroplane is fatally defective. It is merely a toy—a sporting play-thing. It can never become commercially practical. It has fatal defects. One is the fact that when it encounters a downward current of air it is helpless. The “hole in the air” of which aviators speak is simply a downward current, and unless the aeroplane is high enough above the earth to move laterally but can do nothing but fall. “There is no way of detecting these downward currents, no way of avoiding them, and therefore the aeroplane must always be subject to chance and its operator to the risk of fatal accident. Sportsmen will always take these chances, but as a business proposition the risk is too great.


He certainly got that one wrong, didn't he?



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 06:15 AM
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Originally posted by prepared4truth
Next, think about what REALLY happened to the Nazis because they play a key role in what is going on. The OP claims that we have been on the moon since the 40s... were Adolph's Hitler's remains really ever found? Did he really commit suicide? DNA testing has proved that what we thought to be Hitler's skull was actually of a female. Do not just think based on what you know. Everything can't be spoon fed to you.

Do you really know anything about what Hitler was actually into? Seriously? He was into some really advanced/ancient stuff related to the occult and advanced technologies. Don't you think his appearance in history and what he did was a little... odd?


There may be a lot of things the Nazis were dealing with we still don't know. And it's widely known, that it has been Nazi-scientists like Wernher von Braun who played a mayor part in the development of space travel.

BUT - if the Nazis really would have had the capabilities (for example if they really would have developped spacecraft) as many people believe, history would have taken another course.

They wouldn't have lost the war, they would rule the world, and todays Berlin would be called GERMANIA.

If you're doubting this, think about that: One of the leading heads of the Nazi-Regime was Heinrich Himmler (head of the infamous SS). He was the leading force behind the occult activities of the Nazis, even more than Hitler. If the Nazis would have been in the possesion of spacecrafts or similar High-tech like that, he would have been in the know, and we can assume he would have used it to save his ass or even more to win the war.

But history tells us something different:


"Unwanted by his former colleagues and hunted by the Allies, Himmler wandered [during the last days of war] for several days around Flensburg near the Danish border. Attempting to evade arrest, he disguised himself as a sergeant-major of the Secret Military Police, using the name Heinrich Hitzinger, shaving his moustache and donning an eye patch over his left eye,[23] in the hope that he could return to Bavaria. He had equipped himself with a set of false documents, but someone whose papers were wholly in order was so unusual that it aroused the suspicions of a British Army unit in Bremen. Himmler was arrested on 22 May by Major Sidney Excell and, in captivity, was soon recognized. Himmler was scheduled to stand trial with other German leaders as a war criminal at Nuremberg, but on 23 May[24] committed suicide in Lüneburg by means of a potassium cyanide capsule before interrogation could begin. His last words were Ich bin Heinrich Himmler! ("I am Heinrich Himmler!"). Another version has Himmler biting into a hidden cyanide pill embedded in one of his teeth, when searched by a British doctor, who then yelled, "He has done it!" Several attempts to revive Himmler were unsuccessful.[25] Shortly afterwards, Himmler's body was buried in an unmarked grave on the Lüneburg Heath. The precise location of Himmler's grave remains unknown."
(Source: en.wikipedia.org...)

The historical facts make it highly doubtable, that the Nazis were in the possesion of stuff like spacecrafts, space portals or anything like that, because if they had been, Nazi-heads like Himmler, Göring, Goebbels and last but not least Hitler would have used it not just to survive the war.

Finally, the Nazis weren't as mighty or intelligent as many people believe. Finally, they were just a bunch of mean, hypocrite idiots.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 07:14 AM
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That's the beauty of this fantasy. Any facts that don't work to support it are said to be "cover stories" etc...

I'm an admirer of Tesla as well, amazing man. But no one is right about everything, but given enough time he could work out quite a bit. When he made the airplane statement, I'm quite sure he truly believed he would solve the problems with his machine ...



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 07:17 AM
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I don't know that even if they had advanced technology it could have saved them so late in the war. Say what you want aobut the Germans but they weren't not stupid. When they saw America come into the war they may have decided to cut their losses and try to regroup.

Also, our military may want us to believe that Nazi's were dumb and fell easily at the end of the war... but that may have just been propoganda. I didn't beliee it before but from what I have read recently I think it is possible the Nazi's may have been in hiding in Africa, South America and Antartica and/or the Artic.

Consider this.. this Air Force Gneral Twining seemed to recognize this technology from captured German technology possibly and he knew it wasn't the US's tech.. maybe it was the Germans flying up South and North Amercia in their aircraft developed at the end of the war.

www.obscurantist.com...

keyholepublishing.com...



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 08:01 AM
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Truth? meh!
Who needs it? This is fantastic work, and I like the style.

We can only hope hollywood picks this up and makes me a new sci-fi moobie.

I could do Tommy Lee and Will Smith in another tongue in cheek, but I think Nick Cage and or Clooney would be good in a dark one. Throw in Travolta for the bad guy or asshat.

I would buy the book too.



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