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Are ATS Members Losing The Ability To think For Themselves ?

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posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 06:27 PM

Originally posted by thedarklingthrush
9% of them are interesting, but eventually end in asking you for money.

Hey, wait a minute... We're allowed to ask for money on ATS?? Why wasn't I informed of this earlier? You mean I've been giving it away all this time? God... I feel so cheap and dirty and...used.

— Doc Velocity

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 06:28 PM
I personally know my limitations and don't have a strong science background, so yes I look to fellow ats posters to fill in the blanks for me. Sometimes thinking for oneself involves realising there are better qualified and dare I say it smarter people out there who you can learn from. Personally I think Phage is a great asset to this site, his knowledge and logic should not be resented but embraced.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 06:36 PM
Sadly the OP is correct
But like every forum/messageboard/bloggers site on the planet and beyond, this happens.

hopefully this thread will make the mods see it better? and deal with it ?

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 06:57 PM
from what I read, yes, for quite a few simply recite the predigested excreta of others, to prove that they've allied themselves with the biggest dog that will have them and whatever their agenda seeks. Most evident is lack of adherence to any reasonable logical standard IF it gets in the way of them getting to the conclusion they seek rather than following the totality of evidence and living by the facts as they align themselves.
One thing for sure, objectivism and true scientific method are often the first things cast off of the thread within one or two posts after the op. Nobody can learn anything if they are not willing to allow themselves to accept they can be proven wrong if the facts can demonstrate it. Purely primary process thinking, which is ok for kids I guess, because that's how kids think. One can choose to think like a child regardless of age, so rock on!
In undergrad I had a social psych profesor demand during a lecture that experiment looking at different races must always be designed so as to show that all races are equal. So I asked her, what form of scientific method was it exactly that requires us to find a method to prove a preconceived notion when the real purpose of the discipline was to see how differnet people and groups they belonged to functioned under different circumstances. She looked at me like I had two heads and said that it was to prove that racism is bad. Well, if there provable differences between groups and races then why not find out what they are and how to work with them, because differences are not always bad, and different strengths can be shared if they are known, for a general improvment for all but obviously the agenda was to prove what has been determined to support a purely political agenda and to my way of thinking try to obscure what the professor already assumed might not go in her favor if the experiment was purely objective. Yes, I know most will not get my point, I'm resigned to that, it's no simple task to convince the unlearned that they are unlearned.
it's not that there are differing opinions on an opinion site that is somewhat disappointing, its just that so many are here as purely partisan advocates that cant see past their own indoctrination.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by mordant1]

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:17 PM

Originally posted by Mr Mask
Ok! Listening to the Mod here...back on topic
SO- is it possible that MK Ultra has tinkered with my internal programming so wherever I go I mess up really deep conversations that would ultimately reveal secret truths if I
wasn't here to disrupt them

Perhaps there are hundreds of "sleeper jerks" like me across the country just messing up everything
productive and insightful..
Man...I hope this is not the case...I really would hate to be some Manchurian-Troll!!!

OMG...that's it, isnt it?
I'm an Manchurian troll..

Shoot me...
[edit on 11-7-2010 by Mr Mask]

The best place to hide the truth it would seem is in plain sight. If memory serves it was you that initiated the original off topic ramblings that wasted an entire page. Why you even deserved a warning is beyound me. I have seem far less off topic posts banned. Regardless it's fairly evident to me at least that there is a form of elitist mentality here. If this were a social experiment then the proof would be in the pudding. Put a bunch of people together make some popular give them a following and it's like a micro cosm of the real world. The leaders the followers and the people on the sideline just watching with mild amusement. Either way it's all just a game. So don't worry too much about it.

+1 more 
posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:19 PM
I'm sorry but this just REEKS of some sort of "envy" or "sour grapes"...

Seriously? You're upset because the members who have earned the respect of the membership through their excellent research and contributions or, have proven to be reliable sources of reliable information, are being looked to for their take on a subject?

"Thinking for yourself" is a completely separate thing from wanting the opinion of a colleague or a fellow. This IS a discussion forum after all right?

I hope I have missed something in this thread and I am totally off base with this perception (certainly wouldn't be the first time) but, wow...


posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:26 PM
I've been around ATS for awhile now and to some degree I understand what you are saying. However that being said some of the "names" you tip toe around have earned their reputation because...

A: They Deny Ignorance
B: Present solid facts
C: Conduct themselves with civility

Personally I don't have a problem with a solid critical thinker coming in and shedding some light on a particular subject. What I do have a problem with is are those who would slam these critical thinkers not based on any argument of the facts but instead dismiss them because others appreciate their skills.

On more then one thread I have seen facts shed the light of truth on someones pet "belief" and the believer treats the messanger of the truth like they are someone to be hated, out comes the term "Disinformation agent" and things go downhill from there. Its is these people who we should be watching closely, not the true critical thinkers.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Springer
I'm sorry but this just REEKS of some sort of "envy" or "sour grapes"...

Are ya a skimmer, too?

There is nothing wrong with wanting to hear from an expert, or a person who has more knowledge that may shed light on a subject.

The issue I have, is when a person creates a post in a thread saying, "Just wait until so and so gets here," with that being the entire post, or another one I have seen saying something like, "wait until so and so gets here to debunk this."

People have brought up other issues here, some of which I do and don't agree with, but, don't you agree that a post like I mentioned above, shows that a person can't contribute on thier own, without the other person being there? I mean why even bother if they have nothing to add?

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:34 PM
A thread of mine was closed for having this very content.

Yep, I know what you mean.

Namaste and Love

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:40 PM
reply to post by Omega85

Eventually you will have different groups that basically have the same mindset within the ATS site, they often have a few posters that can post most eloquently on the subjects that most concern them. It is not surprising that they cheer them on with stars and flags, if they express an opinion they agree with but were either too lazy or didn't have time to post.

For example 9/11, UFO's, ET's, NWO tactics, Obama,
Ron Paul, Environmental issues and so on.

Most people that come to ATS have opinions on these and a variety of other topics if they see a poster that agrees with them on a wide variety of topics or maybe even just one that they feel is very important, they might friend them and then follow their comments in threads.

What you describe is not alarming to me, I actually expect it.
I found that to be especially true with the atheists we have posting at ATS, but it doesn't bother me at all, I expect them to support each other in thread.
And those that believe in a Creator do the same for each other as well.

It is unavoidable consequence of most free forums that are not over moderated, and ATS is the best I have ever found on the net.

This is a non-issue with me.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Blue_Jay33]

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:48 PM
Are ATS users losing the ability to think for themselves?

You know it's odd that you mention that because I do feel myself mentally slipping a bit.

It's funny that you should bring it up. Makes me wonder also - exactly what do you know about this?

You slipped something into my frozen waffles, didn't you? I suspect you might be involved with the loss of my tin foil hat as well.

I'm wise to you and I know this was a secret message intended only for me.

I want my hat back.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:53 PM
Perhaps we need an expert psychologist to come on this thread and start explaining why we do the things we do. Eg Pack Mentality, popularity contests, jealousy "sour grapes issues".

After reading a fair amount of replies, i have come to one conclusion.

I will agree with some, and disagree with others, why? Because I agree with people whom have similar beliefs and experiences, and disagree with those whom have disimilar beliefs and experiences.

Yes, all the above is TRUE, no one is wrong, everyone is right, because this is what makes us human, the mere fact that people are argueing shows that we are perhaps "thinking for ourselves". The fact that we follow others may indicate a thirst for knowledge, doesn't' have to be right, but right for whoever is learning. It doesn't matter if its absolute truth, it just satifies the needing to belong.

Again I call for an expert psychologist to perhaps shed some light on the matter of human behavior, it may answer a lot of questions......or you may disagree with me if you beleive in dianetics...

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:57 PM
the man who link the most links makes the rules around here. it's like they can't think for themselves and need a link to talk for them. funny thing is they'll link you to nasa, cnn, nbc, fox etc.. known source for the transmission of bullcrap.

if i tell them 1+1=2, you can be damn sure they want a link. in come their lord and savior who links some complicated super natural mathematician who does an equation unknown to man and says 1+1=1. they will bow to the guy who linked it.

learn to think and speak for yourself sheeple, this follower mentality is how we got to where we are today.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:06 PM
reply to post by ATS4dummies

This is fantastic, just when l thought my two brain cells had little to live for, you bring us this. Thak you so much. Peace.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:08 PM
reply to post by breakonthrough9

*nods head in agreement*

I don't get what it is with people. I just disabled my account on one forum I go to because it just seemed too "groupie" to me and it was starting to get on my nerves...the internet has become such a social convention and a pretty sucky one at that. I think we should kick the happy go lucky people off the internet so us nerds can converse in peace. Of course that would be a pretty lonely existence...we need losers for entertainment.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:13 PM
reply to post by ATS4dummies

Sorry for the error, my cat keeps walking over the keyboard and l havent got the heart to tell him that he just cant spell.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:15 PM
Cliques on ATS?

Just like real life.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:22 PM
Ive been to ATS every single day to check up on some recent posts, i think that i'm addicted to ATS!

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:34 PM

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
We are not wise when we are angry, nor when we are apathetic, or even empathetic or sympathetic, and we are certainly not wise when we propitiate, or become obsessed with controlling others. We are wise when we are emotionally above anger, whether it be a conservative emotion, an emotion of action, or serenity, we are wise, but to maintain such emotions takes practice...lot's and lot's of practice.

I was 100% with you until you said that we are not wise when we are empathetic. Empathy is intellectually understanding another person's point of view. I think sympathy is clinging, and almost always obstructs discernment, but the same can't really be said of empathy. You can keep a conservative emotion of serenity while still empathizing.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:49 PM
reply to post by unityemissions

Empathy is intellectually understanding another person's point of view.

Empathy defined:

the imaginative projection of a subjective state into an object so that the object appears to be infused with it 2 : the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this

empathy defined:

1. Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives. See Synonyms at pity. 2. The attribution of one's own feelings to an object.

Empathy defined:

S: (n) empathy (understanding and entering into another's feelings)

The common denominator between these definitions is identification. Identifying with another persons anger, depression, apathy, or propitiation does nothing to help that person, and arguably can harm the person identifying with these emotions. If one must have empathy it is best to empathize with higher levels of emotion such as serenity, or action, but to merely have empathy for serenity or action is not the same as having serenity or action, and as such empathy remains the lower level emotion.

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