Are ATS Members Losing The Ability To think For Themselves ?

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
Well this weekend my shoulders and neck are extremely sunburnt, i was offered Sun tan lotion but people on ATS said it would give me cancer so i refused and Im still waiting for the Alien contact, has saturday been and gone in every time zone now? So Im left here with burnt shoulders and no alien contact, thank you wise posters of ATS

reply to post by Omega85


Not only that, but as soon as something gets posted, without any further discussion or context, evidence even, they majority of threads are "omg thats proof of......"

Noone seems to take the time to investigate whether a claim is true, or even possibly true. Its just immediately latched onto as evidence.

When people who are thinking rationally, and don't fall for every story they are told without checking it out first, show up and having checked it out begin to point out the fallacies it becomes a contest to see who can accuse the poster of being a government agent, a plant for some kind of company, or just a troll.

I spend a good amount of time talking to people about a wide variety of subjects. And the absolute first thing I tell them is that if all you do is learn what people teach you, without taking any time to independantly research and seek knowledge own your own, they you will only know what people want you to know.

My mother for instance, sees something on tv, so of course its true or else "it wouldn't be on tv".

I implore people to look up any thing I speak about, and to learn the topic on their own. I could be wrong or otherwise misleading (although I would never intentionally mislead), sometimes people get their facts wrong.

So think independantly, research and learn for yourself. Don't sit around knowing only what people want you to know, and don't wait for some "armchair expert" to show up because you can't take the time to learn what they have.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Sir I believe your last line says it all. With each persons different levels of spirituality, intelligence, perception, Fears, would determined whether they are a sheeple or whether ATS in fact broadens their horizons and stimulates them to think on a deeper level and look outside the box. For the record, I have no clue who this PHAGE is. I wish I knew you though. Its a shame when you never get to meet the people you should have.

Dont know phage, dont pay any attention to anyones name, only read posts and replies. Thats what everyone should do and also it would fix a lot BS about that.

Don't be swayed by others into believing something that you don't believe is true. Make up your own mind. Don't hesitate to go against the grain if you think a certain belief is stupid. Don't be intimidated by a member’s popularity, they don't know everything even if they pretend too. Stand up for your fellow silent members and point out the flaw in their newly found alien gospel.

It is just like rounding up sheep. When the sheep start getting corralled up on the pasture they tend to follow the sheep they deem to be the smartest, but in reality that head sheep they are following is the dumbest sheep because he was the first one to fall in line straight to the slaughter house.

P.S. You can substitute sheeple for sheep if you like

Originally posted by DISRAELI
But Phage uses science.
There are a lot of people around gaining leadership by using non-science, which is more troubling.

Originally posted by CX
Lol i knew phage's name would crop up in this.

Sometimes a member will get a particular "following" due to the fact that they are good at what they do. They may be an "expert" in thier field, or at least very knowledgeable.

Eh... hate to break it to ya folks but phage uses wiki and other info engines to give you biased and extremely filtered versions of what might be taking place. More than once have I seen posts of his that are practically verbatim to the wiki pages on the subject. With some of his posts I can agree with and I respect the guy for trying to inform the uninformed, but mistaking one's use of the the ctrl c+v feature for knowledge or science is...well its quite ignorant.. Now I am not saying he is always right or always wrong. Its just when your facts come from wiki or other sources on the net who knows what top secret and beyond info is left off the final posting. So the info being copied is about as useful as the here say and theory its arguing against.

Oh I have wanted to say that since he through some wiki crap in my face relating to haarp.lol
PEACE,
JC

[edit on 11-7-2010 by consciencious observer]

[edit on 11-7-2010 by consciencious observer]

reply to post by Magantice

I have no clue who this PHAGE is.

He is a member I happen to look up to.

I have actually posted many unpoopular topics,


I also went up against the theory of one of the poopular topics, one of the few that dared question his facts.

Trust me you get more grief being a free spirit.

I think it is really rude to be name dropping.

In the short time l have been on ATS l have learned a lot. l also know `A little knowlege is a dangerous thing` Therefore l am glad that there are people on here with a lot more information about so many subjects than l have. l often sit here and hope that certain members whose opinion l respect will enter into the discussion. the only difference between me and the folk who put a thead up asking for a certain person is, l sit here and hope a person will join in but they ask outright. That doesnt mean l will agree with what they have to say, lt means l value their opinion. l am quite capable of making my own mind up. ln an ldeal world we would think nothing of contacting someone to get their slant on a subject, l really cant see what the problem is. Yes some people on ATS are young and inexperienced and it shows, but the mere fact that they are here and learning is a good thing in my humble opinion. Peace starchild.

I don't think anyone noticed this, but I think the "star" rating system actually has made ATS worse.

ATS's message/discussion by definition isn't popular. ATS is for free thinkers. Yet you want to create a system where the same sort of popularity that exists in MSM that suppresses information exist here as well. The star system takes the ability for people to decide for themselves what posts are valuable and creates an orthodoxy on ideas. To gain true knowledge you really have to look at each post as equal and come to your own conclusions, but that gets interfered with.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


I simply stated that i didnt know who he was personally. There are so many members I wish I knew but my time here is short. I respect all opinions but in the end its my own that I go with. I will continue to be a free spirit because grief cannot be avoided.

reply to post by ghaleon12


I think the star system in many instances gives you an idea which way the board swings, and which side of the fence many sit on.

Stars and flags on a post have never swayed my opinion.

Originally posted by Magantice
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

I simply stated that i didnt know who he was personally. There are so many members I wish I knew but my time here is short. I respect all opinions but in the end its my own that I go with. I will continue to be a free spirit because grief cannot be avoided.

I wasn't addressing that comment to you personally.

I'm sorry.

reply to post by kevinunknown


I think Omega85 has a very valid point and I think I kind of bumped heads with him a few days back, so publicly apologize if I crossed any lines. For better and worse, ATS is a community like any community we react to each other, tend to develop admiration for some posters and enmity towards others, so I don't think this can really be avoided and the forming of subgroups within the larger community is both natural and inevitable.

These are also not "the best of times" and maybe skate the worst more frequently than not, so people are going to both say stupid things sometimes and jump on people sometimes with whom they disagree. It's basically up to each of us to try and restrain from turning this into a battle dueling personality cults and egos, but I don't see how certain people will not become attached to another's posting style and content, or repelled on the other hand and so drift toward that end. We just have to restrain ourselves I think. I don't know anything procedurally that could be done that wouldn't begin to erode a free exchange of ideas in one way or another and manage to avoid a "thought quality" overlord of some kind or another in the future. It's a fine line.

It would be wonderful to think that ATS is a place where "reasoned debate" is a guiding principle at every moment, but that's probably no less a utopian thought than those that propelled the utopian communities of the 1800s and the vast majority, if not all of them eventually fell apart or tore themselves apart. I've found a lot of valuable exchanges of ideas and opinions on ATS threads and I think as long as we're aware of our own responsibility to not cross the borders of flaming or fawning, we can keep this going, but there is always going to be a tendency to drift towards one or the other, especially in tense times. I think we just need to be self-aware and commit to some values that involve the respecting the process. That we will tend to "group up" is probably a human instinct that can't be totally avoided when it comes to content or the people generating posts we find ourselves we frequent agreement with. And we need to hold back some on people we tend to consistently disagree with or find their posts less than stellar.

I'll recommit to that here and now, but it's something we need to commit to anew, every time we log in. Individual v. community is a conflict that exist because we are both social creatures and individuals and have struggled to balance those things at long as humans have walked the earth.

reply to post by Omega85


Totally. When they don't scream for the help of their GOD like posters they use cheap excuses such as "it's common sense", "because it's denying ignorance", "because x god like poster said so" or some crap that doesn't require any thinking whatsoever. In another words they come here to make noise and when it comes to thinking they transfer that bit to others. Just laughable.

So yes, some have either lost it or never had it to begin with.

Regarding these all knowing posters treated as if they were gods mentioned earlier by other posters in this thread they must like this ball licking performed by their fans otherwise they would simply say something to change that.

But they most likely like this since most of them come bundled with a "deny ignorance" signature or love to spit this cheesy motto whenever they can. A motto that in my opinion is not only a display of arrogance and pretentiousness but a display of ignorance it self.


Anyways... I don't think this will change, in fact I only expect it to get worse.

reply to post by ghaleon12


I am a news junkie and so visit a lot of newspapers, MSM sites, and indymedia sites to get it. On Huffington Post they instituted a "fanned" thing first quite a while ago and now issue "badges" to members based (I think) on the number of fans if you want to apply for something or other to "buy" a badge. I find myself proud to have no badge and fairly happy to have only a small group of "fans." I don't think that system really adds anything to the site. It's not structured like ATS, of course, but I have to say, I have never judged anything here from the number of stars and wouldn't be disturbed if it went away entirely. We are going to probably always drift toward developing subgroups of people at ATS - or particular individuals that we favor - but star system probably accelerates that process for some. I don't go to ATS to stroke my ego and so don't really need the stars and flags; the only benefit I can see in it is that I do genuinely like to compliment people on a good job with a thread or a post. I think that can simply be said, though and the star system could go without any loss felt from me.

Originally posted by Omega85
Omega

Can't say anything else then: " I completely agree with this "

Deny Groupies

I have spoken out about this hero worship attititude which has become worse of late and it has got me into hot water with a few people.

One of the main reasons is that we are here or CLAIM to be here because we are Freethinking People not sheep, although some of us have addopted the group speak " Sheeple ", meaning people who can not think for themselves. However they have accidently fallen for the groupspeak, and are demonstrating that they CAN`T think for themselves.

Then the people who say they are tired of being told what to do and think, yet still ask for a script which they can read from, written by people who are very likely the very people who they say they are refusing orders from. One person with a script ready to hand, who has the cover stories at hand and a supposed solution to any question, as long as it debunks the story in as few words as possible.

The people who say that even if they were told they must have a vacination, leave an area, do something which threatens their freedom. Who go on to say that they would get out their gun, or die trying to do this or that, or fight till their last breath and they would only do things over their dead bodies. Big talk whilst sat behind a computer, they would do whatever they were told because we are brainwashed to do what we are told.

Peoples ego`s are the biggest problem on here, people who are more interested in points, flags and stars, than solving a mystery. SOLVING a mystery that is, not claiming that something reported as a UFO, was a large group of stealth jets flying in perfect formation for the length of the sighting, so close that they could not physically do it. Then people start saying " yes that was the first thing that came to my mind, but I waited to say something untill " HEROMAN " had told us all what he thinks !

Don`t just claim to think for yourself DO IT !

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Qwenn]

Originally posted by DISRAELI
But Phage uses science.
There are a lot of people around gaining leadership by using non-science, which is more troubling.

Is this what ATS is about? Gaining leadership?

I'm definitely in the wrong place then, because I follow no one and have no interest in having people following me.

Besides Science is just a discipline and doesn't hold all the answers. In fact one could say most of the answers that science holds are either incomplete or could simply be flat out wrong.

So the trouble isn't having people gaining leadership with non-science, but the fact that people are feeling the need of gaining leadership and other feeling the need to follow. But I guess that's how humans in general work.

reply to post by xBWOMPx


That's great advice. I rarely look at who is posting, I just read and reply. That habit has given me a few starts at times to realize I just vehemently disagreed with someone I am 90% of the time in agreeance with, but overall it's reinforced two lessons for me. 1.) even the best of friends don't always agree, and 2.) if you find this happening to yourself, you've probably lost your center.