Are ATS Members Losing The Ability To think For Themselves ?

reply to post by Blanca Rose


@ Blanca Rose, I would qualify your assertion that the "fear somebody else knows the subject matter better than the average member" restricts the posting attendance.

I think that the vast majority of people with an open mind, want to find others that have more knowledge on a subject or a different view point, simply in order to learn and educate themselves to understand a subject better.

The real problem is those 'cliques' of 'leaders & followers' that effectively gang up on 'non-compliant' posters in a thread and try to restrict the post themes to what they deem as agreeable expressions of thought - dissent is rejected!

The other annoyance concerns people who revert to personal attacks and childish jibes when a poster displays a lack of knowledge of a different point of view. It is one thing to suggest that a person should read up on a subject so that they may formulate a more expressive and accurate opinion, quite another to simply respond to somebody with a pejorative label.

reply to post by Blanca Rose


I whole heartedly agree with you, except for the fact that this discussion has moved from thinking for ones self, to a discussion about one particular poster who I have not seen bully anyone, just state his case directly and reasonably in scientific form by bringing HIS facts to the table...it is up to YOU to do the same...in other words, give it back to him in a well stated factual argument....whether people agree with him or the other poster is up to THEM to decide for themselves...thus the original title to this thread...Do we think for ourselves?? or do we just get upset when people don't agree with OUR thoughts, opinions or facts and side with another, and then accuse people for not thinking for themselves???

edit to add, I have enjoyed our little debate this morning...you have definitely kept me on my toes...respect to you!!!

[edit on 11-7-2010 by rockhndr]

More members, more turn over, lower average time as a member , a lower percentage of contributors who add content and a higher percentage of those that want to argue their point.

It's just the rest of the internet creeping in and bringing the usual manners and habits with it.

I'd still rather be on this site than most though. People on most of the interactive websites act like hostile adolescent sociopaths nowdays.

reply to post by rockhndr


I have not seen this person bully anybody either, and I do like the contributions they make.

However, when people decide that a particular person has to be the mouthpeice for responses, it changes the whole tone of a thread, and does show that people are not thinking for themselves, or if they want to, why bother?

This is not pointed to one particular person, which I think you are confusing, but only going to show, how like the OP stated in this thread topic, there is a question about people being able to contribute, and think for themselves.

they never really gained that ability

how the heck would they lose?

S&F

I've noticed this too. Big time. But I can't really crystallize the pattern. I was thinking to myself these threads they have some common characteristics. They only discuss things among themselves. They only discuss their point of view and information (usually very limited) that they themselves bring forth. They resist any attempts at collaboration. And in some cases, I think they're also going into other threads and derailing them by accusing others of "wanting other people to do the OP's work for them."

Along these same lines, I'm alarmed at things like this:

1. Someone posts a thread about what corporation X is doing in the jungles of South America that is killing people and the possible ramifications on geopolitical conspiracies.

2. Someone else comes in and says, I hear corporations X's product rots your teeth.

I don't know what this is. But it's not what I come to ATS for.

I don't come here for bubblegum news or gossip or infantile games and conversation. And if I see one more person say "oh noes" and then proceed to just belittle a thread and add noting of value, I'm going to scream again. But you all won't hear me so what's it matter

My view of what the mods are for might be biased, narrow, and just plain, but they sure don't seem to be too worried about this type of thing or attacks or duplicate threads lately.

S&F because this is a discussion that's long overdue.

I've been seeing a LOT of this lately.

It usually begins with this:

Title : OMG GUYS EARTH GOING TO EXPLODE BP MEGA RADIOACTIVE OIL METHANE TSUNAMI NUCLEAR EXPLOSION OF EPIC EARTH DOOMED PROPORTIONS FINAL PROOF!!!11!ONE

Subject matter: "I will get a ton of flags if I copy and paste this completely made up nonsense from another website, one who's credibility could never be disputed: blogspot, or a html site with a lot of religious banners and survivalist banners and UFO Secret Revealed and JFK EXPOSED banners. Begin Quoting now something that has nothing to do with impending doom"

Link: Link to wack job site. "Credible source".

Then some interesting things happen... the same people post, and almost in exact order their followers reply, every time, in thread which forecasts the scientifically impossible. Then people wander into the thread to throw in objections based on science, logic, and reasoning. They are completely slapped down by a virtual army of sock puppets and friends of sock puppet accounts owned by the poster and friends of the poster. Look at some of these members, and you will see the only time they make any kind of response is in a supportive - sock puppety way to support their user's other account. This is the method of internet trolling. Isn't it wonderful?

Gotta love that internet!

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Mr Mask


At the risk of sounding like a lemming: Yep this one.

I generally do not like to repeat sentiments already shared by others. Does this mean I can't think for myself? No, I just don't want to be redundant. If someone else has said it, well I leave it at that.

Most of the time I don't share my opinion. I feel it's a bit useless at times. I get a "horde" mentality in some threads. You can say something and it will be ignored if you aren't backing up the general consensus of the horde (or you are just insulted). It's not that I fear the horde, oh no, I just don't generally care anymore. I don't see the point in arguing about it as it's not important for them to agree with me.

reply to post by ~Lucidity



Strange you of all people would post this, when you left quite a few childish comments (as alot of us did-including me) over to the ET's coming on Saturday thread which didn't add to the value of the thread (of COURSE it was a hoax) BUT, a little contradictory to what you are saying now, about you're not here for infantile conversation??? Don't put yourself on a pedestal HERE when you were just as guilty of childish comment trashing over THERE ...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Three pages and no phage?

He is probably just taking his time, but once he gets here he'll straighten everything out.

This thread is about to get pwned.

Never heard "A person is smart, people are stupid"?

It applies online as well


Also, most of the repeating of other peoples posts is done because most people don't read through entire threads, they read the first page or so and skip to the last page and post.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Blender]

My mother always said chew your food before you swallow, that's right CHEW your food before you swallow!

Do not swallow before first chewing, no matter how tasty it may look.

The moral of the story is boys and girls don't forget to chew

EDIT : removed non-sense stuff, my apologies.

EDIT :
Learning is voluntary process, You cant beat knowledge into people. Just hope some will learn out of there mistake.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by truthy-bird]

Great point and discussion. I always read all pages of posts, apparently most do not, as many of you "timers" previously mentioned.

Which goes full circle:
1 - why post if you really have zilch to say of relevance
2 - can only say something rude/infantile which we all know there are many other forums for the "springer" approach
3 - it will be only the copy/paste function which many have reviewed elsewhere in the early a.m. before others have hit the snooze button
4 - why are those intimidated or whatever to post their insight?

I agree with some that have shed light here. To add it goes so much deeper than the following/cult, the reference of a known source of the subject, or the ridicule. My perception is lashing is fear of unknown or personally feeling inferior; which becomes evident with the response.

I find alot of threads humorous, most with distasteful attacks on another creating a rant fest, and there goes a great thread with some mainly skimming or jumping to the final page (s). Back full circle - it says soooo much more than simply these highlights mentioned.

Or it could be simply that most can't handle life or whatever is being experienced in their life. Ever saw Christopher Titus' shows? "The toilet's backed up" and the individual falls apart. I don't perceive this as a trend, I think this is an opening of such in an individuals mind that many are unable to handle. Their reality basically stinks, therefore, they will do whatever they can to make sure yours does too, and most evidently fall for it. My 2 cents here, for whatever that's worth. Peace all!

ATS has become a website where you can no longer FULLY express your opinion.
Saying anything certain members of mods don't like leads to constant warnings, I speak from everyday experience.
It truely reminds me of a Nazi ran Germany sometimes.
While indeed I do have no filter on what I say, I feel I shouldn't have to. (obviously certain things need not be said)
I've been warned so many times in the past 2 weeks that I've lost count.
I almost feel as if certain people follow me through threads and report anything I say because I won't follow the POPULAR OPINION.
# blending in, to hell with being just another face.
I'll speak my mind aand let ATS cry about it as much as they want.

P.S. - I realize 99.999% of you have no idea what I'm speaking about, and that's good.

reply to post by rockhndr

The discussion in this thread in about a general trends of consistent and continuing behavior of this type and only of this type, not the lighthearted fun we all partake in now and then. Or maybe I'm mistaken.

In addition, I explained that when that banter started the thread you are referring to was in the Introductions section, not the Gray Area section. I am on record as stating that I would never have acted in such a "childish" manner had that not been the case.

I would never put myself on a pedestal. But, hey, thanks for singling me out. Let me go find some things about your history and then select the one time you acted foolishly among thousands of serious posts to point out about you now. Not.


[edit on 7/11/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by Omega85


I totally agree! I am a new member and have posted alot and im on here everyday reading up on thing's aswell and because im not known yet by many i have very few people who reply to my threads and get only a couple stars for what i do post if any at all unlike many i see who post "ok" and get like 20 stars its very upsetting to new comers like myself

With the Stars and Flags,

Isnt the 'Flagging' of a post just a symbolic- ''hey guys, take a look at this, I found it intresting, and you might too..'' ...thats what I thought the flag ment.

And with reguards too the stars, thats to show that you agree or at the least, appreciate someones comment.

Yes, It may be abused but at the end of the day, isnt it up to the reader to form an oppinion on a subject?

Which links to the main OP.

If somebody wants to wait for the 'thoughts' on a subject from another member, then isnt that there decision?... Yes, I think its pointless saying "I wonder what BATMAN would make of this" when we have a perfectly useful U2U feature at hand, which could be used to contact 'sed' member asking for their imput on a particular thread.

Singling out people who may be a subject matter expert or what ever due to their knowledge on something isnt a bad thing.

The 'bad' thing is not actually stating what YOU actually think, reguardless of your own Knowledge on something. If you dont do this, why participate in a thread?

eee.

I think theres a direct correlation between the bandwagon mentality and the (in)ability for critical thinking.

'Well I don't know, and I dont know how/am too lazy to find out, therefore I will choose someone elses opinion and run with it.'

This goes a lot further than calls to phage. It is evident in an alarming number of posts/threads. The ATS motto has become an absolute joke.

It seems obvious, but thats just me.

Well this weekend my shoulders and neck are extremely sunburnt, i was offered Sun tan lotion but people on ATS said it would give me cancer so i refused and Im still waiting for the Alien contact, has saturday been and gone in every time zone now? So Im left here with burnt shoulders and no alien contact, thank you wise posters of ATS