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Are ATS Members Losing The Ability To think For Themselves ?

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posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by Blanca Rose

Originally posted by LurkerMan
i cant give an opinion until phage comes and debunks this nonsense.

he will show you.

you just wait.



Any thread that has this with in the first 3 posts, I stay away from like the plague.


You're aware this poster is being satirical and proving the point of the OP right?


In regards to the OP, I have noticed it a lot as well. There is the usual "we'll wait till [so & so] gets here" and I've also heard "well if you think that's it, then I'll change my mind".

Most of the time it seems the poster is making their mind up based on the person giving the information, and not the information given, which, I think, is the problem here.


[edit on 11/7/10 by GobbledokTChipeater]




posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:26 AM
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reply to post by Omega85
 


I disagree

I think if someone makes a good point that others can believe and accept then they are going to agree with that person in a thread expand on his/her points and those people will award starts and flags appropriately. It’s not that they are ganging up or sending U2U’s to conspire or anything like that they just have similar views and will agree with each other and defend their sheared views when conversing with other ATSters. Have you thought that it might be that these people are not part of a “gang” but are in fact correct.

Feel free to insult me and accuse me of as much rubbish as you like.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by GobbledokTChipeater


You're aware this poster is being satirical and proving the point of the OP right?


Yes, I do. However, there are many threads where this is stated. Sometimes it's all a post contains, and for the life of me, I don't understand why they aren't removed by a MOD for being off topic. To post something like this in a thread, ruins it from the get go, as it is usually within the first couple of posts.

It's very obnoxious to put a comment like this, while contributing nothing else!



Most of the time it seems the poster is making their mind up based on the person giving the information, and not the information given, which, I think, is the problem here.


And this is the saddest point of all. They are not even considering what the information contains, only what somebody esle will say about it, and that person's opinion, so yes, people are losing the ability to make a judgement call on their own, when they can't wait to see what somebody else has to say!



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:44 AM
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@ Mr Mask - right on the money. ATS can only reflect the social tendencies of real life, maybe exaggerating them due to the restrictive conduit of expression (i.e. the internet rather than human interaction) but the point is that people will often reply on others to articulate their thoughts and opinions for them because they do not feel capable of doing it for themselves. It happens in politics all the time. This happens enough for people for be 'converted' so that they no longer rely on reflective expression, but actively look forward to their 'leader' defining the thoughts and opinions that they should have. It is a standard brainwashing technique used by cults all over the world but importantly, both participants (i.e. leader and follower) have to play the same game for it to work.

(2) @ ATS - well, I've been on here for a few years and followed the site for some years prior to joining and I'd say that just like society, it has had its ups and downs. Remember when the whole 'advertising' thing first started? There have always been complaints from folks who 'know their own mind' and who promote their own ideas that some threads are just plain plain old 'cult followings'. The Hidden_Hand thread was much like this and attracted many complaints that it skewed the way that ATS could be perceived. SOme of the so-called 'Bloodline' threads have been the same. This has always happened and it will continue to happen.

@ Kram09 - Not to be facetious, but who is "Phage"? Never heard of him... That was rhetorical because I couldn't care less who he his. Regardless, I know what you mean about the trumpeting and red carpet laid out so that the proletariat can honour their 'embodied voice' when they eventually roll in to speak their words of wisdom. It reminds me of that Twilight Zone episode where the computer is in the cave and is worshipped as the leader until some bloke breaks in and smashes it up. Mind you perhaps that isn't a good analogy - they all died off because the computer was keeping them alive. However, you get my point. Some of these so-called 'leaders' are just pontificating a##holes who have managed to strike a cord with a subservient subsection of the ATS audience. Truly sheeple. (BTW this isn't aimed at 'Phage', as I said, I've never heard of him and cannot really be bothered to check out any of his posts or threads...)

@ Stars & Flags - Yeah, OK, this does wind me up. The number of times I have seen a couple of lines of nonsense posted that end up getting tens of stars and threads that get flags despite their obvious garbage, well... if I'd had a penny for each star & flag... However, this is an indictment of ATS as a whole. It is often cited that in order to get the 'biggie', the 'motherload' the 'uberthread', we have to put up with the dross that flows in during the mean time. I guess that each thread appeals to somebody somewhere and just because in my (humble) opinion a thread is crap, it doesn't mean that I'm right. Hmmm. I'll reserve judgement actually.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by Blanca Rose

Yes, I do. However, there are many threads where this is stated.


Ah I wasn't sure if you were talking about this thread or in general. In that case I agree totally and it really is the height of ignorance.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:48 AM
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reply to post by SugarCube
 


On the issue of Starts and flags may I have a quick rant?

It does really annoy me when i spend a day trying to put a hypothesis together only to find that it gets maybe 3 or 4 flags and starts. Then i find that someone has written to lines and quoted wiki who gets over 100. That i will grant you is really annoying its happened to me a few times would be really good if ATS could find away around it but i cant really see any solution



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:48 AM
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reply to post by Omega85
 


I've noticed that member are playing the popularity contest, it's a game of getting stars, they give each other stars through loyalty instead of substance, there is a snobbery element to the board that I think should be addressed,
myself personally would abolish the whole flag and star system and just use those with greater post counts to pin to the front page.

I'm only a new member but it's completely obvious the the star and flag system just creates divisions and a hierarchy type culture,

It's about denying ignorance and the system is open to abuse and I suspect ATS will not be ignorant of this.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:53 AM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


Why would it be obnoxious to wait for a reply from someone who actually KNOWS something about the thread title?? By waiting for a response from someone who may have more knowledge on the subject, shows me that the person IS in fact thinking about the pro's and cons of the original OP of the thread....

I, for one highly respect alot of the posters in this forum, and in fact have changed my opinion on some things after being shown other outlets on the subject...that does NOT make me a follower, it makes me a thinker, who values knowledge I learn on the way...To never be able to alter or change a thought because I am to stubborn to LEARN something I may not have known before while coming to my own conclusion would make me a follower of ignorance....

make NO assumption, I am NOT discussing anyone in particular, but there are quite a few people here that may have more knowledge of the subject in the post title...

[edit on 11-7-2010 by rockhndr]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:58 AM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 

It's disappointing to see somebody put a lot of effort into a thread only for it to go ignored.
Presentation has a lot to do with it i think.

Is the poster on your latest thread having a joke by calling up Phage? Or is it a bizarre coincidence?



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 07:58 AM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


HAHAHA! I am so with you on that! It is the only thing that in reality I get bugged about on ATS, but I try to take in on the chin and just think that I'm not getting my message across to people in a way that they can appreciate, so consider that I 'must do better'.

The whole 'rating' system is a bit skewed and doesn't necessarily reflect quality, only popularity, which of course are two very different things. However, even quality can be subjective (i.e. fit for purpose) and so we have to question whether it is at all possible to provide a generic rating system that sorts the wheat from the chaff via a grading system.

Personally, I'm a bit lazy and won't start reading a thread that already has a gazillion reply posts since it would take me much too long to catch up - no matter the number of stars & flags it has. Also, since I don't put much store in the "S&F" that never sways me in terms of selecting threads to read.

On the whole, I tend to go with the '.line' that sounds interesting and which has a max of, say, 30 posts. That way, I can feed the craving of my ego and have a fair chance of my post being read and accounted for. Can you believe that I also use the pathetic method of waiting to post at the top of a new page to increase the chances of being read for threads that I really want to have some input into, hahaha! So sad... So very sad.

The fact is though that the majority of readers simply scan the last couple of pages, interested in the here and now, not necessarily the OP but the conversation as it exists at any point in time. You can't beat the (de facto) system however much you try!



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by rockhndr
reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


Why would it be obnoxious to wait for a reply from someone who actually KNOWS something about the thread title?? By waiting for a response from someone who may have more knowledge on the subject, shows me that the person IS in fact thinking about the pro's and cons of the original OP of the thread....


It's not, but when a person creats a post like the example used saying they can't wait until that person gets there, is a waste of time, and contributes nothing to the thread. It's off topic, and rude to the person who has taken the time to create a thread.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by rockhndr
reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


Why would it be obnoxious to wait for a reply from someone who actually KNOWS something about the thread title?? By waiting for a response from someone who may have more knowledge on the subject, shows me that the person IS in fact thinking about the pro's and cons of the original OP of the thread....


I don't think that waiting for more information to properly form an opinion is obnoxious, it is what we do all day long... but why do people find it necessary to post that they're waiting? THAT is the obnoxious part.

If people feel that someone has knowledge they can't do without in order to form an opinion, then so be it.. it's much easier to take the word of someone who is self-admittedly NOT an expert but a hobbiest in the various areas they comment on, than to actually research for oneself, isn't it?



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:07 AM
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reply to post by Seventytwo
 


Seventytwo, just caught your post as I was typing my last reply and you're completely correct. You have hit the nail on the . in terms of the "S&F" in that the accounting system is relative rather than absolute.

By this, I mean, do the S&F of a bunch of gimps (no offence intended to the viewing audience who regard themselves as gimps) equal the same number of S&F of members who take a considered, thoughtful and objective approach?

I would suggest not. I would also suggest that 'gimps' are more likely to bestow S&F, generously but gagged little monkeys that they are.

So, it comes down to a food pellet mentality where the drones follow the S&F because that reflects their own perspective in terms of what denotes 'quality', like flies around sh... can I say that on here?

I don't think there will ever be a suitable grading system on ATS so maybe you're right, do away with it altogether...



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


About the friend vs foe thing?...I added a foe just the other day. I did it
because I respected his arguments. They were sound and free of vitriol.
We just disagreed. I meant him respect, not disrespect--in fact the moniker
states "Respected Foe." Is that right/wrong?

I was waiting for you to enter this thread because I wanted YOUR opinion
on the subject...wink-wink-nudge.

To the OP, I'm fairly new and have noticed the same thing as you, and have
purposefully sought out posts of esteemed members to evaluate
myself, but to a large degree I don't think its sycophance. Most of these
members appear to have an expertise, or have show expertise, in some
field, like photography or math etc...

Edit to add: One last question. why do people feel the need to add attribution
to their "edit to adds"...is it polite. I mean I'm just asking. I've never
read a post and then thought, "Man, I WONDER why that guy edited
his post?"



[edit on 11-7-2010 by rival]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:16 AM
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reply to post by Omega85
 


I noticed that each user has the option of using the "Ignore." Although I have resereved this option for only extreme cases of thread misuse by one or two other members in the past, it really does not bother me to skim through a multitude of blind followers. I get a clearer picture of what kind of people these members are. I learn from them; what they deem as important, how they process thought, and who they allow to do their thinking.

I do have some favorites on this site, other members who I can agree with as well as disagree. From these members, I gain valuable knowledge about issues. My point is, whether I think the responses add information about the topic or whether they are providing information about the members, I am always learning something.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:23 AM
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Yes, you are proving that a lot of people are not very bright.

Some people do have a few brains.

What a stupid post.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


This reply is to your first post on page one.....have a look see people....NOW, I find it VERY ironic that you find it in you to call others rude or obnoxious to post a one line comment that someone is waiting for a particular poster to show up, YET you sit here and make RUDE insinuations towards a particular poster who isn't even here to defend themself...

Oh, The Irony...



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by rockhndr


This reply is to your first post on page one.....have a look see people....NOW, I find it VERY ironic that you find it in you to call others rude or obnoxious to post a one line comment that someone is waiting for a particular poster to show up, YET you sit here and make RUDE insinuations towards a particular poster who isn't even here to defend themself...

Oh, The Irony...


Take it any way you want to. That particular person does happen to get a lot of remarks from people who contribute nothing to a thread than to say, "wait until Phage gets here."

It's not rude to say what it is. I have no problem with Phage, I have a problem with people who say they have nothing to contribute other than they will be waiting until Phage shows up.

See the difference?



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


Then why would a thread be "trashed" when someone makes that comment?? Why wouldn't you read past the first 3 posts if that comment were there?? IGNORE the comment and keep reading....if of course you in fact think for yourself, why would it bother you so much?? I will agree that it is a waste when people do this, but you fail to see the irony of what you've done here as well, (no dis-respect intended)...sad...



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by rockhndr
 


I do believe that a thread is trashed when that happens, because it leaves little room for open discussion, when people can't do it on there own, without somebody else having to put their own 2 cents in first.

I tend to think, that instead of meaningful discussion, people get the impression they are not even able to give their own thoughts, for fear somebody else knows the subject matter better than the average member, which might or might not be true.

Everyone should feel free to post their thoughts in a thread, or create a thread, without the scrutiny of another member, especially a particular one. That shows bias, and it's not fair, once again, to people who might want to contribute something they see as value to the discussion.




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