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Are ATS Members Losing The Ability To think For Themselves ?

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posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 09:02 PM
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

I respectfully disagree. If you are to sympathize with lower emotional states, then there's definitely not going to be any help; however if you are to empathize with them, then you can correctly use this skill to discern what is best to help them out.

If you are not empathizing or sympathizing with another person's state of being, how can you possibly expect to connect with them on a deep level? If there is no deep connection, how can you possibly expect to bring them out of their sorrow?

Just because you can identify with another person's emotional state, does not mean you must remain in this state, or continue the cycle from this lower state of being. It's simply a temporary necessity in being able to discern the most appropriate approach to dealing with a person experiencing emotional stress/trauma.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by unityemissions]

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 09:02 PM
Star an a flag for you Mega Man!!

In my honest and very oh so humble opinion......

Yes, there are some people that haven't seemed to be really thinking for themselves. Quite frankly, it does bother me that some people would be this way. I mean this place is here so that we can have a friendly debate on a topic, not to rake someone and their mother over the coals if they disagree. I do realize that it has been going on here for years. It just seems to me like this thing of attacking one poster as a group hasn't been going on long.

I think this is happening is because a lot of people on here take what they hear on the news as being the truth. They take that as the gospel because they simply refuse to listen to what may be the actual truth. Then again, maybe these people that do this cannot accept the fact that they may just be in the wrong on certain subjects. Yet they refuse to actually debate the person they are attacking. I just don't get the reason as to why some people do this. Maybe it is the fact that some people think that they are always right no matter what.

Then again, I guess that is what happens when you put a keyboard in front of certain people.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 09:03 PM
Followers should shut-up and embrace the ideas of other members, even if you believe they might be wrong! what on earth happened to freedom of speech on ats? you are (those followers) turning this into some sort of government, missing the whole point of it all. So stop hating and bringing all this unneeded negativity to this forum. ats is making n00bs feel uneasy so wtf?

+ great thread by the way!

[edit on 11-7-2010 by sighler]

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 09:07 PM
ATS thanks for the wonderful Ignore option for the posters.

When I used it, OMG, it cleaned up this post so I could really see the on point topics. Now I know how to filter. Yipee!

I'm not saying people's ideas aren't worth knowing.
But, I don't always want to know the scientific answer to something.
There's a lot of information that is disbursed as actual knowledge and there is an agenda behind having that understanding remain 'the' understanding.

With Talk radio; I listen to people fuss about things they don't know about - all the time. They get riled up about an issue and I know their knowledge or understanding is based on something they took as fact from tv or the newspaper, or somewhere else.

I want some out of the box discussions.

Scientists have discovered formulas, and others have come behind them and found a better formula by thinking of the problem a different way.
Took them years, they were ridiculed and they discovered fractals and Pluto is not a planet, and other galaxies and debunked experts in science fields of study.

Even if someone can't prove something and they have a gut feeling or they are raising questions about an issue, I want to hear it; create the Thread.

I hope I don't get on a thread where the 'know it all' person posts and then assumes everyone else should stop discussing the topic because they've posted.

I saw that once, and I remember having a 'shallow' feeling inside, me.
I guess I empathized with the 'shallow' behavior and energy of the poster, as we are One.

The person was so sure that their answer was 'the one' that they stuck another post into the thread and said something like,
"yall are still talking about this topic! I already told you the is something something something...then they ended by saying they were going off to do (as if we were wasting our time)"

Well I had just read the topic, I had read the last few responses, I wanted to add mythoughts/ideas, and I didn't want anyone to speak for me or to shut down the thread just because they had spoken. I thought they were a moderator or something. I was new here.

I don't know who it was, but I realized that Above Top Secret had members who would never be considered 'intelligent', even if they 'knew it all', or could point someone to another person's work as a source.

You can learn something from a child. Yes you can; and maybe that's patience and humility and maybe it's something more.

I have learned how to use ignore in these threads.
I have learned there will be posters who will saturate a thread with U2U conversations such that a moderator will have to get on and remind them how to 'behave'. As was done in this thread.

One of the first things I learned when I joined is we are to respect each other. I respect this thread. It means something to some and nothing to others (who have posted)...and I don't post on threads that mean nothing to me.

The OP never mentioned any names, and the thread ended up being in defense of certain people. Kind of hard not to notice, that some people need defending, unless there is some truth to it.

Kind of hard not to notice people stating they 'need' someone to post someone's research or they won't get anything out of the post.

That's a clue that the OP was on point about "Members losing the Ability to Think for Themselves", because they rely on a particular poster to post the scientific data gathered by someone else when they read any thread.

I see my other selves for who they are, needing guidance. I understand why we are still asleep even if we visit sites that should awaken us. I see us drink the kool-aid of a someone telling how to understand or interpret what we just read. I see why we haven't moved forward unless someone is guiding us.

Because our collective conscious keeps us experiencing this backwards/slave/knowledge fed reality with them- I want to say -
I love you, I'm sorry, please forgive me, thank you.

Light and Love.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 09:08 PM
reply to post by Springer

I think you're misunderstand what the OP is saying. What you interpreted it to mean, to me, is far from what the OP says or is addressing, or even feels.

It's all well and nice to look up to someone based on their credentials or work. I don't have a problem with that, and I do not think the topic starter does either. The problem comes's man word is the truth! This is not always the case. I know that you are aware of instances when experts or the expert said that X was the case...and because they have a certain thorough manner of research, their supporters no longer do their own research, or even question the expert. Then, it is revealed that the expert was, surprisingly wrong, and a nobody who proposed that Y was the case, was in fact correct! Regardless of how vast someone's knowledge is, or how thorough their research is, they can still be wrong. It then becomes a problem when supporters, or followers stop doing their own work and rely on the work of this expert. Some no longer carry any responsibility and put it all in the experts' hands. This then moves from...supporting, to following someone blindly! There are many names for this sort of thing, but where I come from, we call it dick riding, with all due respect!

One can imagine if Jesus decided to deceive successful he would be. Maybe...he was indeed successful.

The instant people stop thinking for themselves and put the onus into the hands of another...all the when they are easiest to be lead to slaughter!

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 09:21 PM
reply to post by Springer

Seriously? You're upset because the members who have earned the respect of the membership through their excellent research and contributions or, have proven to be reliable sources of reliable information, are being looked to for their take on a subject?

It's one thing to do as you suggested but it's entirely different to do as some, and blindly take what another member says as absolute proof, even when that member's facts or research may be wrong. This is often done at the expense of someone else's research, which may be more accurate on the particular subject at hand. Is it not the goal to get down to the absolute truth, whatever that truth may be, regardless of the implications? It seems that such a goal would be subverted by placing absolute trust with one person's opinion, statements or research, while ignoring that of everyone else.

Going even further, it's one thing to accept someone's research without verification, while it is entirely different to accept someone's research without verification and then argue against others based upon that unverified research. In other words, they claim that others are wrong, based solely on the fact that someone has a conflicting answer with the member they entrust, as in: "Member-X said 'xyz' so you are clearly wrong for saying 'abc'".

I have personally seen on couple of occasions, where people will accept as fact the flawed research of another member based solely upon their view of that member, without checking up on the "science" stated by the member they are entrusting and often causing them to ignore the research and opinions of others, even when that research may be more accurate.

While I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with valuing the intelligent research of particular members and quite possibly holding a bias towards their research, I believe that the research should be verified before accepting it as fact. There are many members whose research I value and I will often go to threads in which they comment to gleam information posted by them, however I will never except their word as fact and without verification, just because of who they are and I will certainly never ignore the valuable research of others just because it may conflict with the research of someone I trust, to include my own. What's wrong with holding judgment until research can be verified?

For instance, many members will call on "Member-X" in a thread, only to accept what "Member-X" states as fact, even when "Member-X" turns out to be wrong on that particular subject. Then, the mindset of "well 'Member-X' said 'this and that', so 'this and that' must be fact and everyone else is wrong", even when others may have more accurate answers. They are then arguing someone else's point forward, even though they have no idea how accurate that point may be.

To me, there is a difference between valuing someone's research and blindly entrusting what they say as absolute fact, while ignoring the research of everyone else. Even if the intentions are good, the results may not be. Everyone is going to be wrong sometimes, so blindly accepting someone's research as fact, without any kind of verification on behalf of the member in question, is only propagating ignorance ( or has the potential to do so), IMO.

I see this carried out in the real world as well, most often with political pundits. Pundits seem to hook people by gaining their trust, then the followers of these pundits seem to take everything they say as fact, while ignoring the truth or whole truth. It gets to a point where the pundits could say the most outlandish things, yet instead of thinking on their own, people tend to buy what is said by the pundits as absolute truth. We all know where political punditry has carried us and how it allows certain people to get away with murder (quite literally), while the masses stay in their stupor. Obviously, the implications of this mindset on ATS is not nearly as grave as that of the world at large but it is the same kind of mindset that has steered our society into the corner in which we currently find ourselves.


[edit on 11-7-2010 by airspoon]

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 09:22 PM
I don't think that were loosing the ability to think for our selves but more just of sticking to what you believe in rather than not.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 09:44 PM
reply to post by Omega85

I have noticed the same thing... Makes you wonder what their motive is? What's their background and what are they trying to achive...?

But i have to say, there appears to be a lot of intelligent people on this site who see through the crap and see it as it is....

This site has opened my eyes to a lot... It also makes me crindge when i see how easy it is to give false information to draw conversation in a dirrection to test the waters on curtain matters... i.e. UFO observations etc...

We need to be the light for people to come too to obtain crediable information about the real goings on in the world, not what mass media would have us believe... We don't need sheep who jump on the band wagon when the next gig rolls into town...

Great thread... Cheers

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 10:01 PM
I think that part of it may be that others are afraid to speak their minds without being ridiculed. It is easier to stand behind a popular member's opinion than to speak their own. Who wants to go jump off a bridge?

If you can't stand behind your own opinion, then don't post.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 10:25 PM
NO, is the answer, this is about free will, and choice.

So, if an ATS member posts pablum, why would anyone reply to it?

We have the ability to think for ourselves, and not post to Stupid Topics.

This is my first and only response.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 10:26 PM
Don't be so naeive. ATS has been innundated with professional disinfo agents and provocatuers since the fall of 2009.

ATS represents the biggest threat to MSM propaganda since the Internet went mainstream.

Godlike Productions has been unveiled as an NSA asset used to identify and undermine people who have woken up and can no longer be tricked. ATS has been tagged as a threat.

The good news is that the tactics are no more effective than the propaganda injected by the MSM.

Give us more credit. Have faith. Start adding syncophants to your Foes List and you will see a pattern.

The problem is many users have mutiple aliases. Friends of Phage is a joke. Picture a few overweight, out of work spook wannabes sitting in their mothers' basements in tighty whities putting out Doral cigarettes in empty Yoohoo bottles while picking scabs other semi-eatibles from their graesy, unkempt heads.

God help them. Victory is imminent. The darkside is grasping at straws. Soon it is going to be our turn.

Signed - freinds of Frank Terpil

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 10:39 PM
too many threads just turn into a circle jerk of starring each other for echoing what each other says to anyone with a differing opinion

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 10:43 PM
reply to post by BattleStarGal

I know what you mean about the ridicule. It's something most people worry about when they first come, but soon they see there's really so little of that here, don't you think? ATS is really a pretty safe haven for thinking and learning and throwing out the crazy theories and collaboration. Does ridicule happen? happens everywhere there are humans. But the community as a whole really does set a high standard in that regard, from the owner to the mods to the members, and it rarely lasts long even when it does flare up. Someone handles it politely and well, and it's over.

This truly is one of the best sites there is for maintaining respect and courtesy. Back in the day when I was a lurker, it took me forever to join and even longer to make my first post, but it wasn't ridicule that worried me. It was whether I was capable of living up to the standards set here. Most days I'm not sure I ever will, but no one puts me down for it, and I appreciate that a lot. Things are a little different these days in some subtle ways, but as people have said, the newer/younger members who haven't gotten the hang of it yet will either get bored, decide it's not for them, and go or they will grow.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 10:44 PM
reply to post by zarp3333

Wouldnt surprize me none, I assume that sites like these function primarily as data accumulation centers to develop personality dossiers. It's funny, really, that all the paranoia of the old antiestablishment progressives WRT covert gubnint data accumulation is exactly what they are doing for their own benefit now that they've crept in to populate the bureaocracy.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 10:46 PM
reply to post by mordant1

Yes. And it so much fun to mess with the collectors
They will never know what's real...or what is an illusion.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 10:54 PM
wow I actually agree with this thread and deserves a star and a flag. You think outside the box and you get slammed even if you have proof to back it up.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 10:57 PM
reply to post by Blanca Rose

I have even myself made phage think twice on some subjects. But even I have stated several times it is sad people can't think for themselves. It reminds me of an occult. Soon I am expecting them to start some khoresh style following.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 11:00 PM

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by SugarCube

On the issue of Starts and flags may I have a quick rant?

It does really annoy me when i spend a day trying to put a hypothesis together only to find that it gets maybe 3 or 4 flags and starts. Then i find that someone has written to lines and quoted wiki who gets over 100. That i will grant you is really annoying its happened to me a few times would be really good if ATS could find away around it but i cant really see any solution

yes, I agree as well. The most I have ever got was 8 flags and I see crazy threads get 25+ flags. I swear it gets annoying.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 11:05 PM
reply to post by CX

Alll Phage has stated is that he is a pilot. I have yet seen his credentials in the astronomy, chemtrails, ufo, etc. I have no problem with phage as well. I just get sick of the following he has. Plus even mods follow him which can be dangerous.

posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 11:12 PM

Originally posted by ghaleon12
I don't think anyone noticed this, but I think the "star" rating system actually has made ATS worse.

ATS's message/discussion by definition isn't popular. ATS is for free thinkers. Yet you want to create a system where the same sort of popularity that exists in MSM that suppresses information exist here as well. The star system takes the ability for people to decide for themselves what posts are valuable and creates an orthodoxy on ideas. To gain true knowledge you really have to look at each post as equal and come to your own conclusions, but that gets interfered with.

I can say I agree with you and a star rating system loses thinkers and just gains popularity. I can say with pride that I myself had got two sports boards to drop the rating system. One I know the mod admin and the other was ESPN boards. They tried the rating system and failed. Nobody liked it. I don't have much problem with this S&F, but some threads I question why they get so many.

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