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How to perform a citizen's arrest on a criminal police officer? policing the police?

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posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by alaskan
It's nice getting replies that aren't emotionally driven knee-jerks


I try to provide information based upon my experiences during my job with people from many walks of life. I've predominantly found that people seek information regarding The Law but since many of their dealings with law enforcement are of an emotional nature in itself, it's acceptable for them to be emotional if they feel they've been wronged. I try to look past their emotional responses and try to supply them with what information I know, but if I can I'll refer them to someone who can help because there are MANY people and organizations more than willing to assist you.

One of my biggest suggestions is to read the different code books of your state. They're boring as the Bible but the info is worth more than gold.

[edit on 7/11/2010 by mistafaz]




posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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If you see a cop going nutso, the only help you would ever get that wouldn't land you in trouble of some sort would be another cop. I hate to say it, especially as I live in an area that has serious corruption issues (our wonderful cops have made the national news multiple times for being creeps), but in a tense situation approaching any cop with the intent to "arrest" him, would get you beat down if you're lucky, shot if you aren't.

My suggestion would be if you see a cop doing something you feel is out of line, call 911 and keep them on the phone til someone else gets there. Ya, it's not a perfect solution, but there really isn't one. You have to protect yourself as well, and if you accidentally interfere in a situation because you misinterpreted what was going on, and a cop gets hurt in some way because of you getting involved, you'll be in a world of hurt in so many ways.

PS: No, I'm not a cop.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 11:33 AM
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so basically if you do not have a phone your screwed.





posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by LurkerMan
so basically if you do not have a phone your screwed.


Modern technology has advanced the field of being able holding our police up to the oath they took at their academy graduation.

If you don't have a mobile phone or access to a land line, then I would say you're screwed only in the sense that you don't have a more expedient way to notify 911. Unless you see the cop is acting in an unlawful way where the person suffers or could suffer death or great bodily injury, DO NOT engage the officer unless you've already notified 911!! Even if all of your charges get dropped later on, PLEASE realize that in confronting the officer, even if the cop is 100% in the wrong, you will very likely get arrested for obstructing. That's why it's so important to know the information completely as to not make a mistake that gets you arrested.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by alaskan
 


This article from wikipedia shows many aspects of citizens arrest worldwide:

en.wikipedia.org...

In the example you posted, unless you are familiar with the criminal laws in your jurisdiction such as from being a criminal lawyer, judge, court official, or current or former law enforcement officer, how do you know that the act (assault) posted as an example would be considered a felony and not a misdemeanor? If you called it wrong as a citizen, you could be facing unbelievable liability exposure, both criminally and from a civil standpoint.

From wikipedia:

United States
"Each state, with the exception of North Carolina, permits citizen arrests if the commission of a felony is witnessed by the arresting citizen, or when a citizen is asked to assist in the apprehension of a suspect by police. The application of state laws varies widely with respect to misdemeanors, breaches of the peace, and felonies not witnessed by the arresting party. American citizens do not carry the authority or enjoy the legal protections held by police officers, and are held to the principle of strict liability before the courts of civil- and criminal law including but not limited to any infringement of another's rights.[32]"


Since average citizens are not familiar with the laws, I am in agreement with some of the other posters who recommended contacting the superiors of the officer if you believe an illegal act was committed, after the fact vs. trying to arrest an officer on the scene.

Each law enforcement organization in the United States has levels of authority above them. For example here in Texas, we have the Texas Rangers who are employees of the State of Texas, not the local jurisdictions of cities or counties. They routinely investigate allegations, and on some occasions determine that the officer acted wrongly, and refer the matter to the district attorney for prosecution. If for example the Rangers failed to investigate the matter, the FBI could always be contacted. After that your Congressman. If all of those avenues failed, there is always the possibility of filing a civil suit for injuries and/or damages, and letting a jury decide if you were right or wrong.

Bottom line is that there is a line between what you could do, and what you should do. Short of witnessing an officer raping a small child for example, (how likely is that to happen?) use your head and not your emotions, before deciding to arrest an officer thru use of your citizens arrest authority.










[edit on 11-7-2010 by manta78]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 03:12 PM
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Most people will not know what had taken place prior to them seeing what seems to be an officers abuse of power taking place in front of them. This being said, you will probably not be able to properly judge the situation, and need to not get involved unless you need to intervene if someone's life is in danger. If you thought it was hard to intervene in a one-on-one cop vs supposed bad guy, then your going to have even more trouble if he has a partner. There's more of a chance of needing to assist a lone police officer to handcuff an out-of-control suspect, then there is in saving someone from being killed by the officer. Sometimes LEO's get in a life and death struggle with someone who has grabbed their gun from its holster, or the suspect may of produced a weapon while being cuffed.

If the situation is not life-or-death do not interfere with the duties of the LEO, just be a good eyewitness. If the worst case did happen, I agree with everyone else that you would need to call 911 and intervene only if absolutely necessary. Using the cops same methods of intervention and documentation will go a long way to help if you did have to make a citizens arrest on them. Announce loudly and clearly the situation to the LEO, making sure that the police dispatcher and anyone else nearby hears you. If no cooperation is made by the LEO to cease his illegal use of deadly force, then announce what action you are about to take against him in order to save a life. before you take any action. It's going to be almost impossible to detain the officer who's using deadly force against his suspect. The best circumstance would be if you were legally carrying a firearm and told him you will use it if necessary. If you do this make sure you are at the ready with it, outside of its holster and in a down position in front of your belly. Do not point it at anyone unless you have to pull the trigger to defend your life or someone else. This is no different than you facing-off with an armed bad guy that is murdering your mother for no reason. After the situation, make sure you write down a synopsis with everything that had happened including the date, time and names.



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by john spartan
 


I couldn't agree more! When the police come to take your firearm we are talking about a martial law situation wheather it is declared or not. I too am a member of Oath Keepers and I take it very seriously. My Chief and I have discussed it and we have agreed that if the order to collect weapons ever comes down the pike we are both done. We will not do it and there are many out there that will not do it. If that time comes, they can have my badge and consider me an enemy.
Seeashrink



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by alaskan
 

May not be the response you are looking for but despite all of your hostility and bias I told you the truth. You hate cops because you had a bad experience...understandable. Take my advise, take the high rode. Use the chain of command, everyone has a boss and somewhere in the chain of command (believe it or not) there is someone with integrity.
Seeashrink



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by Highground
 


Thank you for the voice of reason Highground. I am the first to admit that there are some thugs in uniform. I have seen and experienced them firsthand. Like you have implied, a cop on duty, good, bad, or indifferent is a powerful entity. Walk away and report him.
Seeashrink



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by seeashrink
May not be the response you are looking for but despite all of your hostility and bias I told you the truth. You hate cops because you had a bad experience...understandable.

You are patently ridiculous.

I don't hate cops, and I've made it clear beyond any reasonably doubt that this thread isn't just about cops in general, but about stopping someone in the process of criminally hurting others, and how to do it in a lawful way.

Don't project your own little agenda on me, and stop twisting my words.

Grow a goddamned brain.


[edit on 11-7-2010 by alaskan]



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by alaskan
 


If you are really gonna try and arrest a policeman I suggest saving up bond money first. You will definitely need it!



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by alaskan
 

No, you did not ask about conducting a citizen's arrest on a criminal. You asked about how to arrest a crooked cop or a cop doing something outside the law in your presence.
Now having said that, I have been firm with you but I have offered you no disrespect as you have be. If you cannot answer without cursing and taking the Lord's name in vain then maybe you should try another venue to get your questions answered. Maybe the Library. You can rant and rave at a book without being disrespectful to anyone. While I work on trying to grow a !@$@# brain, maybe you could work on growing some manners.
Seeashrink



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by seeashrink
No, you did not ask about conducting a citizen's arrest on a criminal. You asked about how to arrest a crooked cop or a cop doing something outside the law in your presence.

What's the title of this thread?

Is a criminal who happens to be a police officer not really a criminal?



posted on Jul, 11 2010 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by seeashrink
 


There are no laws that protect cops when they break the law. the only proterction yuo have is thuggery and force. Your assumption that we civvies can't tell when a cop is out of line is a bit skewed. Your advice to pick ones battles is good and it is probably best to live to fight another day in most cases then go against the cops but there are occasions when there is no question a Cop is breaking the law or violating your rights and it might be the time to do something.

tasering the 85 year old bed ridden grandmother is one of those times. Had that been me I would have probably been beaten to a pulp when they finally overwhelmed me but I guarantee you a couple of them would have been also.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by hawkiye]



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


I certainly won't deny my opinion being a bit skewed. There are some real stupid, ignorant cops out there. Cops that think the badge makes them a man and above the law and there are more of these than I care to acknowledge. I'm a cop and I dislike most of the cops I know for that very reason. Having said that, the problem is these idiots carry guns. They will shoot you if they are losing in a fight. If you are beating a cop and all seems to be going your way, if he thinks that he is about to go to the ground or lose consciousness (sp?) and therefore lose his gun, he will shoot you to keep you from using his gun on him. If that happens you are dead and there is still a bad cop on the street. There has to be a better avenue.
Seeashrink



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by alaskan
 

Of course he is a criminal. But he believes he is in the right and he has a gun to back that opinion up. Thats why you cannot deal with him as if he is just a criminal. He is a crooked cop. The law is going to be on his side until it can be proven that he is in the wrong. If you are dead, you can't testify.
Seeashrink



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 12:31 AM
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Yea would be interesting info to know... I rememeber one of my friends got tackled in a bar by a guy who later turned out to be a plain clothes policeman, Who my mate proceded to beat the crap outta the guy (my mate isnt a small guy) and it went to court and got thrown out because the cop didn't identify himself before he tackled my mate. Haha was prettty awesome actually...



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 12:32 AM
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In most of the states of the former Confederacy, there are laws on the books that permit you to resist excessive force from police, up to and including using deadly force, in certain situations.

They're still on the books. Every year, they're used for a defense, and at least one or two people succeed, but in general it'll go all the way to the state supreme court before it's settled.

Unfortunately, there's a wad of people that try and FAIL, and those guys get charged with assault on an officer, obstruction, disarming an officer etc, and win the 20-life in the state pen lottery.

Personally, if it ever came to it, I think the only way you'd get away with it clean would be to back shoot the guy, un-ass the AO, and keep your mouth shut.

The safer way would be to call the state police in most circumstances if it's a local. Local cops really really HATE when you call a statie in a case of abuse of authority, because in a lot of cases they will show up tout suite and do that observation thing they don't want. It's a lot harder for a city cop or deputy to succeed in testimony against a state cop in court than against you. If you live in a state where the police unions haven't paid off the politicians, recordings are real nice too.

They need to pass an overriding law at the federal level and just end all that local "can't record a cop" crap. Well, that, and they need to totally rework IA and the local prosecutorial system but that's never going to happen.



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 02:01 AM
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reply to post by LurkerMan
 


well if your in a bar as per your story get people to film it and as most bars ive been to have secuirty cameras bolth inside and out you and several other brave bar patrons idealy the most sober restrain the officer idealy getting his own cuffs on him then you call the police and dont inform them of the cameras as alota cops will complain and say you cant film them security cameras dont have that flaw and then if the responding cops try anything shady completely comply with there orders and let the video do the talking at your court and idealy post it on youtube etc and get your side out the comman denominator in getting these cops arrested seems to be get the video out quickly and make it go viral that way at the very least they will lose there jobs if not there freedom



posted on Jul, 12 2010 @ 02:08 AM
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as a side note i was involved with a rather scary incident with cops partially of my doing where through a course of events they were called to my residence as i was about to leave to go to the range to calm down they showed up not in cars and not announcing them selves and i was leaving as there was a schizophrenic running around my neighbor hood with a gun at the time as he often did i heard a gun cock behind me so i pulled my 12 gauge and tried to engage Thankfully for me my safety was on(go remmington J locks) and i realized my mistake and immediately went into self preservation mode pointed the gun at my self and ran saying if they were gonna shoot me it was gonna be in the back 3 of the 4 cops (i had only seen one of them) drooped there guns(mp5 with a box mag m16 and a tac shot gun) and ran away i took off into the woods i had grown up in and had a 4 hour stand off where they couldn't find me and i was freaking the heck out debating blowing my head off ended up getting calmed down by my friends via cell phone ditched the gun and surrendered in my boxer shorts face down on the ground the officer who i had pointed my weapon at then kicked and assaulted me in front of the paramedics luckily for me one of them filmed it with out the police officers knowledge i went to jail for a 72 hour hold talked to my self in the cop car and played crazy then went to another 72 hour hold in a psych ward told my story and a year later in court i got off with 3 years probation and 3 of the 4 cops got fired and the 4th was transferred to teach at the la county sheriffs office(the one that had assaulted me) so just cuz there the law dosen't mean they can do what they want especially if you got a good lawyer.....and they never found my gun wich also helped and i still own to this day i am not a felon just my story if any one wants more details u2u me and ill explain in more depth with a bit of background and what started the event

if interested as well you can try to find the old news article from the sf chronicle suicidal mans stand off ends by snake bite the cops in question were santa clara county sherrifs and to give a time line it was the DAY befor that CHP cop shot that dude on the free way for throwing a rock at them

looking for my old police report if i can find it its mildly entertaining if it wasent happening to you ill try to upload a scan
[edit on 12-7-2010 by KilrathiLG]

[edit on 12-7-2010 by KilrathiLG]



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