Why don't we all just leave?

Originally posted by TheFinalTruth14

Did I also see - "True freedom gives me the right to kill someone, how is that fair?"

What?
[edit on 13-7-2010 by TheFinalTruth14]

I think that was me you're paraphrasing, and I think you've misunderstood the point I was making.

I was making the point that there is no such thing as absolute freedom, because we have no absolute reference point, so we need rules as reference points, which by definition will limit at least some freedoms.

i did so- 4 years ago i started going to costa rica and made a little home up in the hills.
no army since 42 -the switzerland of central america-
and now theres 45 warships and 7,000 marines "invited in"..
the plan is "full spectrum dominance" there will no longer be citizens-
just civilians running from the war machine. well oiled- and uranium tipped.

reply to post by pscysm

What is absolute freedom? Surely the notion is a contradiction of terms?

I believe that the United States Constitution framed absolute freedom in the easiest definable way without leading to chaos. My definition of absolute freedom would be complete freedom so long as you do not infringe on anothers freedom. There is no choosing which is more absolute, it works out itself.

To kill someone would be infringing on their freedom to live and thus you should be subject to a system of moral laws. Thus is the way the United States founders framed it, and thus is the way that has been abandoned and whored out to become what we have today.



reply to post by Wolf321


You words are enlightening as usual. I can do nothing more than to agree wholeheartedly that it is impossible to enact true change when working within the system that they provide. The only is to work outside the system, to create your own.





I tried to avoid the whole "revolution" thing in this topic. It seems that my words seethe with the calling of revolution so thus, it cannot be avoided. I'm sure, just as I have said would happen, there are more people supportive of the revolution I had in mind after some recent events, but I digress. That is another topic for another time (perhaps soon). Before I went on lurk mode I said that I would not longer openly talk about revolution, but it seems that people are bringing it up on their own and thus, maybe it is time to renew the old subject matter.



Back to the topic at hand. So many questions. Where would we go? What about when they find us? Do I think they will let us go without a fight?

And then to follow the questions there is just flat out denial and pessimism. "It would never work." "We would be crushed in an instant." and my favorite "There is nowhere we could go and maintain the same standard of living."

Allow me first to address the questions.

Where would we go?

This seems to be the big topic at hand. Everyone seems to think that all tracks of land are somehow claimed just because they are logged on a map for everyone to see, and some country popped over and stabbed a flag into it. Guess what? Land has been the biggest subject in dispute over the last few millennia, big enough to cause mass wars over obtaining it. The land that these kings and civilizations were obtaining wasn't THEIR land, it was some other country's. They simply did what they wanted and what they felt was right: they took it.

Now I am not saying to storm into a town, kick everyone out and claim it as our own. However, what I am saying is that there is a lot of "free land" out there in the world, regardless of what you might think. If remained hidden, there is nothing stopping a community from growing to such a size that it would be able to defend and grow on it's own.

Would it take time? Yes. Might it be hard? Of course. But if you are expecting to jump out of the system and expect a life of luxury handed to you, than you obviously aren't understanding.

The system we are currently forced to live on is a system of luxury in itself rather than a system of necessity. In exchange for obedience and your utmost confidence in your governments, you will be given the little pieces of luxury, just enough to keep you appeased and enslaved.

So where would we go? Mountains. Forests. Islands. The arctic. Underground. The possibilities are literally endless, it is just a matter of whether people are willing to work for the freedom and solidarity that they wish to have.


What about when they find us?

Well with any luck they wouldn't. The main goal would be to keep the location secretive until it becomes large enough that such a task would no longer be possible. This would require enormous effort but it would be one of the only ways to ensure that the location is safe.

Secondly, we would need to be well armed in order to defend ourselves. Some people might frown upon this, but when a world is run on military power, it is necessary. When we live in candy land, gumdrop world, then we will be able to throw away our defenses.

Lastly, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Take advantage of location and other countries. Ally ourselves with other countries/provinces that might be able to lend out protection. In exchange we might be able to provide community resources or perhaps labor in order to protect us. This heavily depends on the location in the world and the status of the surrounding areas of the civilization.


Do I think they will let us go without a fight?

No, but they will certainly not kill us without being provoked. That is if we are talking about a leading world country. If involved with a 3rd world country or perhaps a warring country, they might kill and ask questions later. This must be taken into account when a location is determined.

Which is precisely why we need self defense protocols and equipment and if at all possible, allies to support us in our cause.




Last, I would like to address the general pessimism towards the idea.

"It would never work; they would crush us."

I can only think of about 400 times in history where there were those people that said something like this. My, how much this world would be stuck in the dark ages is the people actually LISTENED to them.

The world is plagued with pessimism towards any idea, especially one that could be quite dangerous or life threatening. Something like this, sad to say, might be just that if followed through until the end. However, I can not blame just people for being so pessimistic, it must also be blamed on the system which drills such things into your heads that say anything outside of the norm is crazy, anything not commonly done is impossible. Only if you break from this system taught paradigm will you realize that not only is it very much possible, but it has been done many, many times before with people of much a lesser standing than many of us are today.



"There is nowhere we could go and maintain the same standard of living."

And last... and certainly least. This statement simply grinds my gears and I will tell you why. If you are so happy with your current standard of living in exchange for the rights and freedoms that are usurped from you for it, then by golly continue as is. I only question as to why you are here, why you are posting, and why you even consider yourself to be someone I would be speaking to about such ideas.

Clearly those that are unwilling to give up the novelties of their current material life are not the targets of this idea, this shift in culture. When it comes to moving out of a heavily established system into a new one, it is inevitable that the standard of living will drop, at least in material ways. However, a close knit community can more than make up for such drops and help in ways that were previously never thought possible.

With that said - should this come to pass let me make it perfectly clear. You will not be picking up your old life and moving it exactly "as-is". You will not be stepping into a situation where everything is provided to you via "big brother". You will not be venturing into "paradise" where you can relax all day and forget about the troubles of the world.

It will be hard. It will take a lot of work. It will probably require DRASTIC change for anyone involved. However... in the end when the gears are rolling and the hurdles are passed - what is left will be what some would call a utopia. A self governing, self providing, absolutely free community of people who aren't afraid to embrace the truth of the world around them.

It would set a precedence for the entire world to follow. In time we will lead by example. Maybe then the world would be on a better path than today.

Just maybe.