Show us ONE, just one UFO pic or ANY evidence that can be proven as evidence of visitation.

reply to post by kix


The aliens were so advanced that they had to build those from stones..

So, if you can't proof something as "easy" as your own existing how can you ask us to proof the existence of anything else?

You didn't even answer that, and run away of my original quest. You have proved that your question can't be answered, so what you are doing is no search for truth but search for attention.

Originally posted by IntastellaBurst
We try to keep open minds here, ... you should do the same.


Oh, and just because something is not completely proven, doesn't mean it's not possible. A few hundred years ago they could not prove the earth was round, all we can do is look at the pictures, listen to credible eye witnesses and decide for ourselves.

There are pictures dating back at least 50 years, do you really think humans had the technology to make these objects ??

Why should we try to convince you when your mind is obviously made up, this thread serves nothing but your over inflated ego and need to justify your own narrow view of the world.

[edit on 10-7-2010 by IntastellaBurst]

took most of the words right out of my mouth.
Future generations will look back and say, "we were so stupid, we thought the earth was flat, THEN, they thought they were alone in our unimaginably huge universe."

Just because you can ask a question no one can answer, doesn't make your answer right, that's why there are "theories".

Do you have a soul? Is there a god? Is the universe expanding or contracting, or both, or neither? Will oldragger ever touch a boob? jk.

See, I asked questions you can't answer?

reply to post by OldDragger


Start here

Summary of the offical report by the Belgian Air Force regarding the UFO events of March, 1990.

Read it, then explain to me why a NATO air force, using state of the art F-16 military jets, airbourne and ground radars, accompanied by Police and civilian witnesses can't explain what invaded their airspace in March 1990.

Bear in mind the following conclusions from the report, which are as follows;

12. The Belgian Air Force was unable to identify neither the nature nor the origin of the phenomena. However, it had sufficient elements to exclude following assumptions:

a. Balloons. Impossible due to the highly variable speeds (confirmed visually and by radar).

b. ULM. Same as for balloons.

c. RPV. Impossible due to the hovering characteristics.

d. Aircraft (including Stealth). Same as for RPV. No noise.

e. Laser projections or Mirages. Unlikely due to lack of projection surface (no clouds). Light spots have been observed from different locations. Light spots moved over distance of more than 15 NM. Form of inlighted part of spots has been observed with spectacles. Laser projections or mirages can not be detected by radar.

Have a think about it

reply to post by OldDragger


Here's the thing.
If it doesn't happen to 7 billion of us at the same time, there will never be sufficient amount of proof to appease the masses.

We had Phoenix Lights in 1997. Thousands witnessed it including the governor so.............what do the 'others' do?
They tell the other 6,999,999,999 of us.....it was the military dropping/testing flares. So the 'majority' wins!

Say you and I.......had an encounter.
A 3-mile long mothership hovered over us (and we took photos and al)l. Then they levitated us into their ship. Performed experiments including erasing some of our memory then put us back in our original location. Remember, we have photos to 'prove' it let alone our experiences.

Do you really think others are going to believe us? Our positive-proof-photos become CGIs and our experience becomes a made-up delusional story!

So you see? There will never be enough proof for everyone.

And here's a little example of this problem. Please remember, these are children who really have no reason to 'lie' and very little experience in life, to confuse this with something else.

There are two types of evidence; namely, direct evidence and circumstantial evidence.

Maybe this will help how we weigh and look at both circumstantial and direct evidence as it pertains to the UFO debate. Instead of the word GUILT we can substitute: alien "presence" - "visitation" or "possibility"

www.nycourts.gov...

There are two types of evidence; namely, direct evidence
and circumstantial evidence.
In this case, the People contend that there is circumstantial
evidence of (the defendant's guilt)(alien visitation)
Let me explain what constitutes direct and circumstantial
evidence and how they differ.
Direct evidence is evidence of a fact based on a witness's
personal knowledge or observation of that fact.
A person('s guilt of a charged crime)(claim to seeing a UFO or alien)may be proven by direct evidence if, standing
alone, that evidence satisfies a jury beyond a reasonable doubt
of the person's(guilt of that crime) (truthfulness)

Circumstantial evidence is direct evidence of a fact from
which a person may reasonably infer the existence or nonexistence
of another fact. (A person's guilt of a charged crime)(An alien presence)
may be proven by circumstantial evidence, if that evidence, while not directly establishing guilt, (alien presence) gives rise to an inference of guilt (alien presence)
beyond a reasonable doubt
Let me give you an example of the difference between
direct evidence and circumstantial evidence.
Suppose that in a trial one of the parties is trying to prove
that it was raining on a certain morning. A witness testifies that
on that morning she walked to the subway and as she walked she
saw rain falling, she felt it striking her face, and she heard it
splashing on the sidewalk. That testimony of the witness's
perceptions would be direct evidence that it rained on that
morning.
Suppose, on the other hand, the witness testified that it was
clear as she walked to the subway, that she went into the subway
and got on the train and that while she was on the train, she saw
passengers come in at one station after another carrying wet
umbrellas and wearing wet clothes and raincoats. That testimony
constitutes direct evidence of what the witness observed.
And because an inference that it was raining in the area would flow naturally, reasonably, and logically from that direct evidence, the witness's testimony would constitute circumstantial evidence that it was raining in the area.
The law draws no distinction between circumstantial
evidence and direct evidence in terms of weight or importance.
Either type of evidence may be enough to establish (guilt) (alien presence) beyond
a reasonable doubt, depending on the facts of the case as the
jury finds them to be.
Because circumstantial evidence requires the drawing of
inferences, I will explain the process involved in analyzing that
evidence and what you must do before you may return a verdict of (guilty)(alien presence) based solely on circumstantial evidence.
Initially, you must decide, on the basis of all of the evidence,
what facts, if any, have been proven. Any facts upon which an inference of (guilt)(alien presence) can be drawn must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
After you have determined what facts, if any, have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, then you must decide what inferences, if any, can be drawn from those facts.
Before you may draw an inference of (guilt) (proof of alien visitation), however, that
inference must be the only one that can fairly and reasonably be
drawn from the facts, it must be consistent with the proven facts,
and it must flow naturally, reasonably, and logically from them.
Again, it must appear that the inference of guilt (alien visitation) is the only one that can fairly and reasonably be drawn from the facts, and
that the evidence excludes beyond a reasonable doubt every
reasonable (hypothesis of innocence)(natural explanation)

If there is a reasonable hypothesis from the proven facts
consistent with the (defendant's innocence) (argument they did NOT witness alien visitation), then you must find the
defendant (not guilty)(did NOT witness alien presence).
If the only reasonable inference you find is that the defendant (is guilty of a charged crime)(did witness alien presence) and that inference is established beyond reasonable doubt, then you must find the defendant (guilty of that crime) (DID witness alien encounter]


Perhaps we should have a trial? Weigh the facts. I think it would be fun. Pick 12 jurors- 4 skeptics, 4 believers, 4 who don't care and an impartial judge to weigh the "evidence" presented.
This could be bigger than the Scopes trial!




[edit on 11-7-2010 by rusethorcain]

Came across this. Trace evidence is evidence of something unnatural having occurred in what is said to be landing sites. Hope it helps.

There's tons of evidence to support extraterrestrial visitation. There's ZERO evidence to counter the evidence for extraterrestrial visitation. You have eyewitness accounts from pilots, police officers, astronauts and more. Eyewitness testimony is direct evidence.

DIRECT EVIDENCE

Evidence that stands on its own to prove an alleged fact, such as testimony of a witness who says she saw a defendant pointing a gun at a victim during a robbery. Direct proof of a fact, such as testimony by a witness about what that witness personally saw or heard or did.

www.lectlaw.com...

There's also circumstantial evidence with radar reports, pictures, videos, trace evidence and more.

The pseudoskeptic can't counter the evidence. They think saying,"it could be anything" means something. We have to examine the evidence and the eyewitnesses and not the opinion of the pseudosketic. Here's just some of the evidence.

Alien Abductions

1961 Betty and Barney Hill Abduction
1967 The Betty Andreasson Abduction
1967 Abduction of Herbert Schirmer
1968 The Buff Ledge Camp Abduction
1969 The Antonio da Silva Abduction
1973 The Doraty Abduction, Houston, Texas
1973 Pascagoula, Mississippi Abduction (Parker, Hickson)
1974 Hunter Abducted in Wyoming
1975 The Abduction of Sergeant Charles L. Moody
1975 The Travis Walton Abduction
1976 The Stanford, Kentucky Abductions
1976 The Allagash Abductions
1978 The Cullen Abduction
1978 The Dechmont Woods Abduction
1978 The Abduction of Jan Wolski
1980's Lost Time/Abduction in New York
1980 The Alan Godfrey Abduction
1983 The Copely Woods Encounter
1983 The Abduction of Alfred Burtoo
1985 Abduction of Wladyslaw S.
1985 Abduction of Whitley Strieber
1987 Abduction on North Canol Road, Canada
1987 Hudson Valley Abduction
1987 The Christa Tilton Story
1987 The Ilkley Moor Alien
1987 The Jason Andews Abduction
1988 Abduction of Bonnie Jean Hamilton
1988 DNA Sample From Khoury Abduction
1989 Linda Cortile-Napolitano Abduction
1992 The A-70 Abduction
1993 The Kelly Cahill
1994 Abduction in Killeen, Texas
1997 Abduction in Wales
1997 Abduction in Australia, (Rylance-Heller)
1999 Carlyle Lake Abduction
2001 Abduction in Michigan
2003-Abduction in Florida
2004 Francis Family Abduction
2005 Man Abducted in Florida
2005 Clayton & Donna Lee Abduction

www.ufocasebook.com...

Trace evidence

Physical trace reports were labeled Close Encounters of the Second Kind (CE-II) by J.Allen Hynek and involve instances where there was a physical interaction between the UFO and its environment. Usually these involve a landing trace, such as depressed grass or soil, but also burned or broken vegetation, residues, and more exotic traces. There are at least somewhere between 3,500 and 5,000 UFO physical trace cases.

www.ufoevidence.org...

Some of the best cases

Bill Chalker is one of Australia’s leading UFO researchers and the author of The OZ Files: The Australian UFO Story and Hair of the Alien: DNA and Other Forensic Evidence of Alien Abduction.

Bill's personal 'top ten' regional Australasian case list...

1. 31 August 1954 Sea Fury case, near Goulbourn, NSW, Australia (experienced naval pilot, radar visual confirmation, independent ground witnesses, apparent intelligent responses to witnesses’ thoughts about possible collision)

2. 23 July 1992 Peter Khoury “Hair of Alien” DNA case, Sydney, Australia (abduction-type encounter with female Nordic blonde yields anomalous hair sample that suggests “hybrid origin” and unusual genetic profiles)

3. 27 June 1959 Father Gill UFO entity sighting, Boianai, Papua New Guinea (credible multiple-witness sighting of animate entities on UFO with intelligent interactions)

4. 30 September 1980 George Blackwell’s UFO landing and physical trace case, Rosedale, Victoria, Australia (compelling array of physical evidence – ground trace, missing water, effects on witness, other witness)

5. 8 August 1993 Kelly Cahill’s abduction experience, Narre Warren North, Victoria, Australia (possible independent multiple-witness UFO encounter with abduction aspects and physical evidence)

6. 19 January 1966 George Pedley’s UFO nest encounter, Tully, Queensland, Australia (daylight close encounter with UFO take-off leaving physical evidence – “UFO nest”)

7. 14 April 1966 Ron Sullivan’s “bent headlight beam” experience, Burkes Flat, Victoria, Australia (striking UFO encounter, physical traces, bent light beams, possible related fatalities)

8. 6 April 1966 Westall school daylight UFO landing encounter, Westall, Victoria, Australia (multiple-witness daylight landing, physical traces, “cover-up” dimensions)

9. 1977–78 Gisborne UFO abduction milieu, Gisborne, New Zealand (complex and high strangeness UFO and abduction milieu – entities, multiple witnesses, multiple abductions)

10. May – August 1973 Tyringham Dundurrabin intense UFO flap area, New South Wales, Australia (long-term intense UFO flap, multiple witnesses, physical effects, paranormal aspects)

churchofcriticalthinking.org...

Radar cases

Radar sightings of UFO's are remarkably common, and also the most authentic. The word of expertly trained operators, backed up by tangible echo returns from unidentified intruders is hard to deny. In many cases these bizarre blips that suddenly invade military and civil radar screens are seen to execute manoeuvres completely beyond the abilities of any known aircraft. Ground speeds of up six thousand m.p.h are nothing unusual, and as if to add further credence to these incidents, many of these 'radar visuals' as they are called, have been simultaneously witnessed by naked eye observers, both on the ground and in the air!

www.ufoevidence.org...

I can go on and on. If you really want to debate the issue, there's a wealth of information if you follow the links that I provided. If you're a closed minded skeptic that has there mind made up then there's no point of debating any further.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Matrix Rising]

reply to post by OldDragger


Here you go sceptics, read it, watch it, now weep!

www.google.com... DAQsAQwAw

www.realufos.net...

Three seperate stories over what happened at Roswell by YOUR government which of the two stories are lies since only one can be true?

reply to post by MAC269

There is more evidence to support visitation by ET than there is to support a belief in GOD.

Fiddlesticks. I'm an atheist, and even I disagree with you.

I'm with OldDragger here. No evidence of alien visitation has ever on planet Earth. This thread proves it. Keep up the good work, OD!

I hope this will explain things and to believe or not is entirely personal matter on hard evidence. Knowledge is indeed powerful yet secretive to the selected few because if everyone know how simple to create just a nuclear reactor, we will end this world sooner not later



[edit on 11-7-2010 by bizsand]

Originally posted by OldDragger

This board, the entire internet is FULL OF hoax, fake, fraudulant UFO junk.
ATS is full of UFO hoaxes too.
Can any of you show ONE thing that isn't? That actually is evidence, even hinting of proof?
Seems a little odd that after all these years, all this "study' there is zilch, doesn't it.
AND! NOTICE I said proof, not "unexplained", as in, this photo is unexplained. Unexplained is only proof of it being unexplained!
Not unconfirmable "eyewitness" accounts.
You want to know why UFOlogy isn't a science? Because there isn't anything to study.
EVERY one of you that "believes' does so on faith, not reason or science.
So, I challenge you! Steer me to just ONE, just ONE bit of proof!

you do realise that asking for proof of a UFO (Unidentified flying object) is contradicting your question because the very nature of a UFO is a craft that cannot be identified ...

what you should actually be asking for is proof of an alien space craft ... but the fact is no one knows what they look like ... it could look like an every day car or a match box ... no one knows

OldDragger,

Is there any proof that there will never be proved that aliens exist?

Can you explain us why you are saying that since nobody can prove until TODAY that UFO are aliens objects, even with 100 years of research, you decided that there will NEVER be found a proof of existence of aliens?

Who do you think you are to decide what will and what will not be proved in future?


Your aknowledge is limited by what you know today.

Since you got no proof that physics laws are 100% exact, you can't say that they are 100% wrong.

You don't want the search for truth.
You want all answers TODAY and finish the search.

You want "The End" and that, my friend, it's impossible unless ...
YOU PROVE ALIENS DON'T EXIST!

Originally posted by reject
reply to post by OldDragger

 

colorado 1929

also, research battle of LA

there's also that old top hat ufo

[edit on 11-7-2010 by reject]

See, and this is a fantastic photograph. And we say "ah, see, this was taken before computers and photo-shop".

But there is so much mischief, we can't even trust the old photos.
Old photo's can be photo-shopped in the current day.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


The first abduction you reference is: 1961 Betty and Barney Hill Abduction

If you examine the record of their first interviews, Barney states that they seemed to speak German. Why would extraterestials choose that language to speak? The fact that some have observed weird craft does not mean that that craft is otherworldly unless you are a "fundamentalist believer" who doesn't bother to examine contrary info.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by MAC269

 

There is more evidence to support visitation by ET than there is to support a belief in GOD.

Fiddlesticks. I'm an atheist, and even I disagree with you.

I'm with OldDragger here. No evidence of alien visitation has ever on planet Earth. This thread proves it. Keep up the good work, OD!

And there you have it!

As long as people like this exist (without personal experience) there will NEVER EVER be enough proof.

I'm surprised we collectively agree that we breathe air!
(Hell, that's about all we agree on as a species)!

We don't even agree to live on planet Earth. Some say it's a hologram.....while others think we live inside this hollow planet.....etc.

Very frustrating (for those who know better).
Very lonely (for us who have had experiences)
and
very sad (for a race who should reside in harmony!)

UNi Verse = One verse.
Will we ever be on the same page? I hope so.

I have 2 basic schools of thought on UFO's and the world

(KEEP IN MIND THAT UFO MEANS UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT,MEANING IT CAN BE SOMETHING NOT KNOWN TO THE COMMON PERSON AND DOESNT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN ITS ALIENS)

1)UFO's have been on this planet since civilization,watching over us and keeping us in check to make sure we do not succeed in going to the stars for whatever reason.

or

2) UFO's are fake and the technology has been around for years that has been hidden from but public and governments around the world have been using it in secret

[edit on 11-7-2010 by hawaiinguy12]

[edit on 11-7-2010 by hawaiinguy12]

reply to post by OldDragger


If you so ardently are against the notion that UFOs exist, why are you bothering to post threads in a UFO forum?

The question you pose is dishonest; it presupposes that if someone were to present you with concrete, undeniable proof you would somehow change your mind when in fact your posts in the thread serve no purpose other than to remind us that there will never be anything resembling concrete proof that you will accept.

It's all a question of belief man, plain and simple. I can't prove that you are human - for all I know, you could be an independant DOD algorithm designed to key in on the words "UFO" and "pic" in forums across the Web. I however, choose to believe you're human.

Why can't you just stay a moderate, polite skeptic and not insult people? Jesus... four threads with skeptics/ debunkers insulting believers and vice versa. Glad to see ATS' bandwidth is being put to good use

All this because the Chinese freaked out over something that may or may not have been a helicopter flying over an airport

Originally posted by romanmel
If you examine the record of their first interviews, Barney states that they seemed to speak German.

This is news to me. Where is this written?

reply to post by romanmel


That's just silly.

Why should I believe a pseudoskeptics opinion over eyewitness testimony? Some of these cases the witnesses have been examined by professionals and they were not found to be lying.

So again, why should I accept the opinion of the closed minded pseudoskeptics over evidence as examined and reported?

Here's some more cases:

Gary Heseltine is a police detective with more than 17 years service and has been following the UFO subject for 32 years, since a childhood sighting aged 15. He is the editor of UFO Monthly.com

My top ten, in chronological order:

1. On 11 August 1944, whilst over France, a Lancaster bomber crew of eight saw what they described as a huge disc-shaped object with a row of lights that dwarfed their aircraft many times over. Upon landing, the crew officially reported what they had seen and were told not to talk to anyone about it and not to record the information in their log books. In a time before the era of ‘flying saucers and UFOs’ and at a time of war, this case stands as a landmark sighting.

2. The Great Falls, Montana, cine footage from August 1950. The footage clearly records two anomalous objects flying in formation; it was analysed extensively but to this day has never been explained.

3. The RAF Lakenheath radar-visual sighting of August13–14, 1956. UFOs were sighted visually from the air by the pilots of two fighter aircraft. One of the aircraft confirmed the sighting on its radar. The objects were tracked on three ground radar stations, with two control towers visually confirming the sighting. The objects were described as white and round and able to perform amazing changes of direction and abrupt changes of speed. Speeds were confirmed on radar at many thousands of miles per hour, way beyond the technology of the era.

4. Colonel Gordon Cooper’s account of a UFO landing at Edwards Air Force Base in 1957. He stated that whilst he was flying over the airfield with a film crew, a UFO descended and landed at the base. He later handed over the footage to a high-ranking officer from Washington and it was never seen again. Cooper was a man of the highest integrity who later became an astronaut on the Gemini space program.

5. Tehran, Iran, Jet Chase, early hours of 19 September 1976. The incident took place in the vicinity of the Shahrokhi Air Force Base and involved multiple military and civilian witnesses on the ground and the aircrews of two Iranian Air Force F-4 Phantom aircraft in the air. There were radar confirmations and electromagnetic effects reported. At one point, a smaller object separated from the main UFO and approached one of the chasing aircraft, a manœuvre that caused the plane to take evasive action to avoid a collision. The object then returned to the main UFO and merged into it. The sighting was confirmed on radar.

6. Rendlesham Forest, 26–28 December 1980 at RAF/USAF Woodridge base in Suffolk, England. The case involved a number of credible military witnesses, an encounter with a landed UFO, increased background radiation in the area where the landed object was seen, a confirmation by the Deputy Base Commander, Lieutenant-Colonel Charles Halt that he led a team of security airmen into the forest on one of the nights and that he had witnessed multiple UFOs himself, one of which shone a beam down to his feet and later into the Supplementary Storage Area (SSA) – a nuclear bunker complex, no less.

7. Japan Airlines, 17 November 1986. Whilst flying a cargo plane from Iceland to Anchorage, Alaska, the crew observed three walnut-shaped UFOs. One of the objects was enormous, many times the size of their Boeing 747 aircraft. The pilot, Kenju Terauchi, described the UFO as being twice the size of an aircraft carrier. The objects performed extraordinary manœuvres and stayed with the plane for 400 miles (640km). The incident was also confirmed on ground radar.

8. Belgium, night of 30–31 March 1990. Two F16s were ordered to intercept a radar-confirmed (three independent radar stations), triangular UFOs in the skies above Belgium. The case offers high-calibre witnesses – i.e. two F16 pilots – as well as multiple ground radar confirmations, airborne radar confirmations and target aircraft lock-ons. It also comes with an endorsement from Colonel De Brewer, the Deputy Head of the Belgium Air Force no less! But what raises the bar even further is a piece of physical evidence that is hard to ignore. A cockpit recording from one of the F16s captured the UFO performing a dive of 5,000ft (1,500m) in a matter of a couple of seconds, before levelling out and disappearing out of sight – a manœuvre impossible for terrestrial aviation technology.

9. The Tether Incident, STS 75, 1997. This case involves the Space Shuttle and footage recorded by NASA itself. Whilst an experiment was being performed, a 12-mile (19km) length of a satellite tether snapped and drifted into space. As the shuttle cameras zoomed in on the drifting tether, the footage captured numerous objects flying in its vicinity. The objects appear as circular light-emitting objects that at various times pass behind the tether and one has been estimated to be a mile (1.6km ) in diameter.

10. Campeche region of Mexico, March 2004. The crew of a military drug surveillance plane recorded up to 12 UFOs on their FLIR infra-red camera system. One of the objects can be seen to separate into two. The aircraft’s radar also confirmed the sighting. During the incident, which lasted more than 30 minutes, the UFOs gathered around the aircraft, to the consternation of the aircrew. Unusually, the Mexican government released details of the encounter in full. They provided the footage, the crew and the Head of the Mexican Air Force for questioning by the world’s media.

churchofcriticalthinking.org...

The pseudoskeptic has ZERO counter evidence. Those who study Ufology are trying to explain an observed phenomena. The pseudoskeptic is closed minded and they are trying to PROVE what U.F.O.'s are not. They just look silly.