Should All UK Police Be Armed?

reply to post by woogleuk


Yeah thanks for that, saw it earlier on.
I was wondering if perhaps they used the tazer and this caused a mussel spasm or if he shot first. I guess we wont find out until the IPCC finish the investigation.

reply to post by kevinunknown


Dude, there is a certain peace you get with having a big honkin' revolver in your car or strapped to your hip. You don't have to worry about car jackers, gangs or whatever. It doesn't increase crime to have citizens armed, because right now, only the bad guys have guns in england, and the reason you guys have so many break ins is because they understand they won't be shot. Yes, the cops should be armed and so should you. Remeber, one of the reasons the japs didn't attempt an invasion of the US during wwII is because the citizens own guns.

reply to post by kevinunknown


What i am basically saying is that if all police were armed including the officer moat killed then the police officer would have at least has a chance to defend himself, he may have had the chance to shoot moat first. Similarly two unarmed cops came across Derrick Bird, if they were armed they could have stopped him before he kill anyone else.

1) Moat never killed the copper, he wounded him.

2) The copper was sitting in his car and Moat did a drive by - even if the copper had a bazooka he could have done nothing to defend himself, so thats no argument for arming the cops.

3) Many of The police are idiots. Giving them guns is like arming baboons. It will cause carnage.

4) The fact that police have guns will not cut crime, only arming the people to protect themselves from criminals will cut crime.

reply to post by astrogolf


Don’t get me wrong i support having an armed police force as outlined in the OP. However there is no way i will ever concede that if we have more liberal gun laws we will all be safer. I don’t think the Japs are going to be invading our shores any time soon.

reply to post by SpearofOdin


1) Sorry slip of the tong so to speak i have been following this moat stuff quite closely

2) I am sure if he saw moat coming he would have had a chance to draw his weapon, this may have deterred moat from shooting.

3) “police are idiots” not a very good reason unless you can prove for example that all police are mentally handicapped or have very low IQ’s

4) Again stupid suggestion, remember why we have a ban on hand guns for example, some nutter walked into school and shot a room full of innocent school children. Even by your logic it would only encourage vigilante justice which is never a good thing.

This is prob what the police want guns for every cop.
well if that's the case i should be able to get my firearms
cert back and then maybe members of the public will feel
safer knowing they too are armed.

not like the USA though we dont need folks going
crazy and arming themselves up to the teeth.

i myself have my shotgun licence for now,
the fire arms one is more trouble than its worth.
it seems here in the UK people dont realise they
have every rite to own a gun if they pass the security
criteria.
But unlike other countries shooting a human being has
never entered my head.my guns are for sport not murder.
and i think you will find this is the case of people who
legally hold licences,be it shotguns or firearms,IE pistols or rifles.

Absolutely they should be armed, no question, yes, armed. Every one and at all times.
And legged too, dont want them crawling and wiggleing about like worms in public, I mean, disgusting, really!
Full compliment of arms and legs all round, its the best thing, really, for tactics and such.

reply to post by mordant1


LOL a star for you for such a funny comment. I have to ask though what is your serious opinion on this

It seems as though it would be better to have at least arms available to police officers.

Maybe not carried on their person but in their patrol car, or something to that effect.

A taser to match this sort of crime is a very stupid idea, as a taser will not be effective in stopping a criminal armed with a firearm before they can kill someone.

And a single cop with one couldnt do much. the criminal might go down, but they can get back up easily if theres no one else there to take them down. And when they pull the trigger the cop goes down for good.

reply to post by Miraj


Yeah i agree with you keeping them safly stored in their cars is a good idea. When i was talking about tazers i was thinking about the threat from knife crime but yeah your right ageist a guy with a gun not a good idea.

reply to post by kevinunknown


Dunno, I've not read much good of your coppers and dont have a good feel if they are generally on the side of the citizens or simply act as some version of the kings rangers and take advantage of their status. In the states, the class system has been so dissipated I dont really have a problem with cops and guns, but in the UK where vestiges of a relataitvely heartless class structure remain and the public in some form or fashion remain considered by some as subjects and the legalities apply in great part that one doesnt get a piece of any subject for any reason before the crown gets all it wants, I see potential trouble when someone is given what they perceive as an essentially unearned and unappreciated class promotion based on an upgrade in the potential of force applied. A former gran in law complained about the ignorance of the people in her council flats. Here or there, ignorant people shouldnt have a readily available means of injuring life.
Best thing I can say is it will depend on what motivates the copper to do his job, and ones innate intelligence and prime directive and as in any field of endevour motivation can make a real difference.
HTH, best I can do for ya


[edit on 10-7-2010 by mordant1]

What the hell? Your police are not armed? How the heck do they enforce order? With harsh words?

Seems a bit odd to me....

reply to post by Darkrunner


They famously maintain law and order with their notebooks, batons and CS spray. I was hoping for a American insight into this debate.

Would any of you support a move for your police to be disarmed?

reply to post by kevinunknown


Tazers vs Knives is a good way to go on that note.

I understand the people there don't want their police having guns, and I don't think it would work well.. I think that part of the reason people don't like cops here is that they show up and have a gun on their hip, and most all the time they have their hand on their gun so they can draw quickly. It doesn't exactly inspire trust.


Still I think cops should have some method to stop shooters. I'd rather have a gun locked in a car that I can get to than no gun at all. It would probably stop a shooting rampage quicker as well.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by Darkrunner

 

They famously maintain law and order with their notebooks, batons and CS spray. I was hoping for a American insight into this debate.

Would any of you support a move for your police to be disarmed?

Nu what am I, chopped liver? A simple answer your not gonna get, t'aint one there.
Just the bad ones need to be disarmed.
Youre in essence asking by what form can a public policy direct individual behaviour in specific situations and to have only all good consquences. Even in the states as elsewhere a balance has to be accepted, with some number of casualties on both sides as no condition of perfect safety will ever exist given the vagaries and evolutinary charactoristic nature of human nature.

2) I am sure if he saw moat coming he would have had a chance to draw his weapon, this may have deterred moat from shooting.


But he didnt see him coming did he. Thats the point.

3) “police are idiots” not a very good reason unless you can prove for example that all police are mentally handicapped or have very low IQ’s


Have you ever met some of the police in Britain. They even recruit convicted criminals (as long as they are black). Coppers have some of the most corrupt and dumbest people in Britain in their ranks.

4) Again stupid suggestion, remember why we have a ban on hand guns for example, some nutter walked into school and shot a room full of innocent school children. Even by your logic it would only encourage vigilante justice which is never a good thing.


Guns dont kill people, people do.

That nutter could have done the same with a samurai sword.

Nutters are the problem, not guns.

I am against vigilante justice.

If someone breaks into my house I want to shoot them myself.

reply to post by SpearofOdin


The basic premise of your argument is that you hate police, you see them as stupid and power hungry. When i was 18, fresh out of school, my intention was to join the police (in the end i never even applied). Now as anyone who has ever thought of this will know you have to do your research which I did by going to an open day at the Scottish police training centre. I found out firstly just how rigours the selection procedure is but also got a demonstration from an officer who was a trained the police to use firearms (he was showing us equipment used by police). I must have herd form about 20 officers that day and raw recruits. Not one of them struck me as stupid or criminals these are highly trained professionals who put their life’s on the line in some way or another, yes they will have their bad apples like every organisation does. People only hate the police until they need them then they complain about them.

reply to post by kevinunknown


Same here actually.
At the time, I think you had to be 19 get in (about 8yrs ago).
So I went to college and done a course called Public Services (which was a waste of time.)
Although we did get a tour of a Police HQ in my area which had a Laser range that we could have a go on.
And I actually later applyed too.
And had no reply...

I also had my name down to be in the 'specials.'
I waited over 2 years to hear from them, when they sent me a letter asking if I was still intrested, but unfortunately Im currently unemployed, have no Car and no longer go to the gym. So I had to let it go.

But the police officers Ive met have actually been allright.
But like any work place, I guess theres a few idiots (bent coppers).

To return to the original question: No.

I LIKE having people on the beat that can defuse a situation without starting to wave guns.

After the bus-bombing in London, there were coppers with mp5's EVERYWHERE around every station, underground entry etc. All that firepower everywhere, scared the heebies out of me. Wat if a copper would stumble???

It is the basic choice between: Do we want an arm's race between cops&robbers, or do we want a way of dealing with criminals that does not involve shoot-outs.

Mace and tazers would be enough for me.

I know, I know, there will always be people that go for a gun when committing crimes, but currently we are having a bigger problem with kids brandishing knives than with guns especially because guns are not very common. I'd like to keep it that way. Knives are easily dealt with wearing knife-vests, tazers and mace...... no guns needed.

And remember: For extreme cases, there are still the firearms teams to call in. They specifically train for such events, it's their expertise.
And, not unimportant, we shouldn't forget that GB and USA are, despite the language, still two different cultures.

edited to remove unwanted smiley




[edit on 7/10/2010 by diakrite]

reply to post by mordant1


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
ROLE ON FLOORGET UP AND
HA HA HA HA
stop it too funny
wriggling on floor ha ha ha ha f'in mint. have a star.