RANT,

I, myself, know of an S.B. church that asked a member to leave because he was living with some one and unmarried. (Again, this flies in the face of Christ's actions considering that the first preacher woman 3 times formerly married was, at the time Christ asked her to spread the word, was living with a man, unmarried - This is what blows my mind about ALL christian churches, irrespective of catholic or protestant denomination - that they can think they can disregard the words and actions of Christ and come up with their own rules). But, as I stated, and you reiterated, this is a church-specific decision. Here's how I take issues like this. Each church is ruled by its preacher and deacons, and through the vote and will of the congregation (i.e. if the congregation doesn't like what the preacher and deacons are doing, they can vote the preacher out). There are churches that I absolutely don't agree with their decisions...guess what I do, I wouldn't let my foot cross the threshold...period. But I'm not going to go and try to force them to change because I think they're wrong (which is exactly what they're doing by forcing some one out of their church...right?) I'll just go to a church that the congregation believes the way I believe.

See, this is the problem I have with the gay/lesbian issue right now. And I want to be clear where I stand on this.

1. I believe churches that refuse membership to ANY person, based on their lifestyles, desiring membership is acting in opposition to Christ and his teachings. Now, if that person brings anti-christian behavior INTO the church (i.e. teaches, practices what is considered unGodly acts WITHIN the church - run their butts off, because the church cannot be sallied by anti-christian practices and teachings) BUT, to deny the gospel to some one because they are a sinner (whatever that sin is defined by) is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard of in my life. Christ said he came for the sinner...otherwise, he didn't have to come at all.

2. Guess what the origins of the Southern Baptist denomination were? Originally there was the Baptists...period. Then, around the time of the civil war, the Baptists decided that it wasn't Godly to own slaves. There were a large number of members in the southern states that DID own slaves...hence the start of the Southern Baptist denomination. Now, there is nothing in the foundational doctrine that says "and, by the way, it's okie-dokie to own slaves"...if there was, I wouldn't even be admitting that I was raised in that denomination. But in essence, what the spin-off members did was re-create the doctrine of the Baptist church, added the autonomy of the churches (this gets around a central organization deciding that something you have been doing is now wrong...lol), and went on about their business, but they did NOT create a doctrine that okay'd slavery - I want to make that clear. But here is my contention for any homosexual Christian who wants to follow the Baptist doctrine...start your own denomination...but don't try to force a bunch of people who have decided they don't like your way of life so much that they will reject you as a member of their body of believers into letting you in. It serves no purpose...really, it doesn't. Start your own "Rainbow Baptist" denomination...or whatever...just like the Southern Baptist did.

People just don't think clearly anymore...they want to control that which they have no right to control (the Southern Baptists and the homosexuals, both sides are guilty of this).

One more thing, in order to clarify. You absolutely, positively could start a gay/lesbian Southern Baptist church and because of the autonomy with the southern baptist denomination, no one would be coming to you forcing you to close your doors. If you did, this would merely state - we are going to follow the foundational doctrine of the southern baptist denomination - and by the way, if your gay/lesbian, come to our church.

So why doesn't the homosexual community think clearly and do something like this. This is the "christian" thing to do in response to "un-christian" behavior by unaccepting S.B. congregations.

Textbut didn't Jesus serve wine at the last supper??

That was Jesus own wedding to MaryMadalene he could not possibly be without wine right,

Just a joke

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Well, the south, aka "Bible Belt" or "Redneck Country" or "Confederate States" or "White inbred religous nutbags" is a place I really don't care to go...

The post you made sure speaks volumes about your mentality and your understanding/tolerance of cultures other than yours. Who are you to judge people you don't even know? Are you better than them because of what you have been TOLD about the South? I sure as hell think not. If you took 5 minutes to actually speak to some of those folks, rather than looking down your nose at them, you would realize they are one of the most tolerant, nicest, compassionate groups of people as a whole in the world. Sure there are bad apples, as there are everywhere, but that doesn't justify your attitude towards them. The Southern Baptist Convetion is on the decline thanks to a certain section trying to run things their own way. Churches are leaving the organization left and right, and I dont think the governing body represents a majority of the whole convention

Obviously you don't live in Albany GA. you should come for a visit this place is most narrow minding and racially influence place I have ever been and I have been around US a couple times and oversea too, why I am still here because is not a matter of choice but job related.

And I forgot to say if you are lesbian or gay god forbid they will burn you at the stake.

Actually, I live about 3 hours SE of Albany. Been in the South since the day I was born. Sure, I agree there are some things that are wrong and that some people are treated wrongly, but there was no need for his basic gerneralization of the entire South. His quote showed alot of ignorance on something he knows very little about. (IMO)

This thread needs a little humor so here goes. How do you keep a Baptist from drinking all of your beer? You invite another Baptist to your party


[edit on 16-6-2004 by KillerD]

Trojanex


Well is nice to know somebody close enough in ATS, that is good, but my experiences here are mixed, the first thing when I meet somebody is, What church do you go? As soon I say I do not got to any they start preaching about this church been better than that church like everybody have a different god. And as soon I say that I don't go to church they will not speak to me again. No that I care.,

The same with my husband his co-workers tell him that he needs to go to church so he can socialize, but he needs the right church................ get my point
.

[edit on 16-6-2004 by marg6043]

Well, I live in Northwest Georgia. I'd say there is still is a good bit of racism in the northern part. There is some openmindness but its rare. Lots of baptist that dont practice what they preach, thats for sure.

Originally posted by Valhall
RANT,

1. I believe churches that refuse membership to ANY person, based on their lifestyles, desiring membership is acting in opposition to Christ and his teachings. Now, if that person brings anti-christian behavior INTO the church (i.e. teaches, practices what is considered unGodly acts WITHIN the church - run their butts off, because the church cannot be sallied by anti-christian practices and teachings) BUT, to deny the gospel to some one because they are a sinner (whatever that sin is defined by) is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard of in my life. Christ said he came for the sinner...otherwise, he didn't have to come at all.

Exactly, the Church is suppose to reach out to sinners and not to become a place for other christians to seclude themselves from the outside world.

Originally posted by KillerD
You invite another Baptist to your party
[edit on 16-6-2004 by KillerD]

Hahah, you dont know how true that is!

and yeah, Marg, I understand your views... Religion is the foundation for many down here. Some take it too far. I grew up in a baptist church and there were always those who ruined it for everyone else. Also, about being told about the "right" church... yeah, some of em are nothing more than big social clubs.

[edit on 6/16/2004 by Trojanex]

Trojanex, I did speak to the ones at the gas station, they weren't speaking english. People think Jeff Foxworthy comes up with "redneck" words, but he doesn't. I heard "uunta" and "inthinshiate" at least twice. It sounded like inbreed white rednecks talking about how his wife/sister/mother/second cousin ate at some party. Like I said, They the kind of people I fear, if they had known I was part Indian, or part Asian(Russian blood, Russia is in Asia, so Russians are Asians) I probably wouldn't have liked it. Now who knows, they might have been harmless, but guess what? Look on google or yahoo for racist crimes. Alot happen in major cities, but guess where it is the strongest? It sounds like "Syble ete".

Anyways, Sorry you think I looked down on them, hard to do when they were taller, and bigger, and looked like they could use me as a toothbrush if they had enough teeth to brush. Now not all are like that of course, but the reason stereotypes are around is because they exist. Watch the Simple Life 2, those two are stereotypical blondes. But still, not surprised to see this from the S.B., the kings of BS.(SB-BS, forward as backwards)

...And here's my 2 cents. All the people from GA, TX, or anywhere else need to stop whining. Someone makes a few bigoted, ignorant remarks and you think the whole nation hates you. I live in MISSISSIPPI, and you don't know the hate of the nation until you've lived here. Every time I turn on the television, go to a movie, or read a magazine, someone's taking a shot at MS. Never mind the fact that MS pays more money in various charities than ANY other state in the union, despite the fact that it's also the poorest. Never mind the fact that MS has made the greatest move foward in race relations out of the ENTIRE country. I mean those weren't MS cops beating a black man to death for dancing, were they. It wasn't MS cops who shoved a plunger up a black immigrants anus, was it? It wasn't MS cops who shot a black man 41 time for reaching for his wallet, was it? So the next time some intolerant hypocrite says something bad about your poor widdle state, spare me the melodrama.

...And now to the people who love to catogorize the south as intolerant, ignorant, and yes, even rascist. It seems that tolerance and acceptance of other cultures is not exactly your strongest point. You speak of the intolerance of southern Christians as if you were above such petty actions. However, tolerance is a two-way street. Who are you to lecture them on tolerance when you can't even practice it yourself. Want them to show tolerance to others, lets see you show them a little tolerance first.

As to the ignorance of the south, some of the greatest minds of the U.S. have come from the south. And they did it without the arrogant belief that other areas of the country were inferior. Robert Frost, Eudora Welty, Flannery O' Conner, And Anne Rice all spring to mind. There are many others, of many different races, but then, we were only talking about WHITE southerners weren't we.

And now a parting word those of such high educational standards that they have this wonderfully naive belief that the south is the only place with a slave owning past. Most of New England owned slaves for many,many years before the south was even settled. In fact, though not a slave owning state at the time, New York actually tried to join with the Confederacy during the civil war. Only about 2% of the population of the south actually owned slaves. And most of them came from wealthy families in the NORTH
Hypocracy, yes there is hypocracy,rascism, and ignorance in the southern church. Just as there is everywhere else.(...People in glass houses...) It would seem that this practice has been perfected on ATS. There is also a movement among southern Christians to reach out, embrace, and unite with Christians of all races. As well as their Jewish counterparts.

Pssst... zip up your pants, your bias is showing.

Don't let blind obedience to your particular sub-culture( I'm talking to all you lovable neo-pagans out there, you know, the ones with the slave chains that say I AM AN INDIVIDUAL, I THINK FOR MYSELF written on them)
lead you to propogate hateful stereotypes.

DENY IGNORANCE ?

I absolutely LOVE the South. (You almost got me to Rebel Yell)

Which is why I tend to be so critical of things that remain wrong with it. I think alot of southerners are.

I still don't like what the SB's are doing here (though I'm tolerant of their right to do so), but I absolutley hate what such actions do to the South's already misunderstood image. Which I will continue to challenge in the mind sets of other southerners and the rest of the world.

And for the record, Biloxi Mississippi beaches, gambling and friendly faces put Atlantic City to shame. All across the America, there's no better work ethic, party towns, colleges, communities, entrepreneurs or opportunities than in the South.

(Though I have my issues with each of the following) From the largest company and employer in the world to the leading world wide news network to more Presidents than you can shake a stick at....the South can't be denied it's due.

Originally posted by Trojanex
Actually, I live about 3 hours SE of Albany. Been in the South since the day I was born. Sure, I agree there are some things that are wrong and that some people are treated wrongly, but there was no need for his basic gerneralization of the entire South. His quote showed alot of ignorance on something he knows very little about. (IMO)

I agree, we can't generalize. I may be a Canadian, but I have very good friends in Kentucky, Georgia and Texas, and (other than their cute and very endearing accent) they're just like anyone else. I mean, even they realize that their states have a stigma because of the old traditions and the "Bible Belt", but I still don't think it means all the South is like the town of Mayberry or Mississippi Burning.

First off, thanks for the offer for sex, Flinx, as I'm one of the Southern Baptists you want to screw. However, I must decline as, according to my God, homosexual activity is an abomination.

From what I gathered from that article, the SBC is pulling out of the other organization because that other org. is not reflecting the values the SBC sees as the values given to us through the Bible, and you have a problem with this. Doesn't sound like the SBC has the problem, it sounds more like you do.

You also have not much understanding of the Christian faith or the SB denomination, either, if you believe that the SBC would have us look like Muslim-run Arabic nations.