Southern Baptists to World- "Screw you"

news.yahoo.com.../ap/20040615/ap_on_re_us/southern_baptists_11

"INDIANAPOLIS - The Southern Baptist Convention voted Tuesday to quit the Baptist World Alliance following complaints that some members of the loose, global association had adopted liberal theology and "anti-American" thinking. "

What the hel...I mean, heck?! Anti-American thinking....uh huh. If these people exemplify "American" thinking, god help us all.

I'm curious, are there any Southern Baptists out there, and do you agree with this decision? Why would they intentionally make themselves look like insular, small-minded morons? Do they just not care that everyone knows that they are reactionary mouth-breathers?

Originally posted by Flinx
"INDIANAPOLIS - The Southern Baptist Convention voted Tuesday to quit the Baptist World Alliance following complaints that some members of the loose, global association had adopted liberal theology and "anti-American" thinking. "

Anti-American thinking in a religion? I knew that there was problems with the illegid seperation between state and church, but between church and state?

I care less for religious organizations as long as they don't try to dump their bs on me they pretty much can do whatever they feel like it.

Originally posted by marg6043
I care less for religious organizations as long as they don't try to dump their bs on me they pretty much can do whatever they feel like it.

Heh, I'm thinking these guys want to do more than dump their BS on you. If they had their way the country would be something like Saudi Arabia....but Christian fundamentalist instead of Islamic.

The thing that gets me about this is the fact that these people are saying, "we're leaving this organization because the rest of the world is too open-minded". It's just.....I don't know....awful.
I know there's that bloody "freedom of religion" thing, but it doesn't stop me from publicly deriding them.

Don't worry it is a lot more people with open mind that some think, any of this religious org. try to get to frisky and somebody will boom them alright.

Remember they are only human and as soon one of them gets to righteous some scandal will pup up somewhere.

Well, the south, aka "Bible Belt" or "Redneck Country" or "Confederate States" or "White inbred religous nutbags" is a place I really don't care to go. Florida yes, but never stop in Georgia or any other former slave states if you don't believe in inbreeding or christianity or the "black man should be put back in his place" crap. I went to Florida for spring break, but when I stopped in Georgia I was afraid to say anything besides "Damn 'n-word' drivers, not breeding with their relatives, we should put them back on the plantations!" I know it is wrong to make stereotypes, but these people were why the stereotype was created. These people didn't have enough teeth left to lie through. Thankfully it was just a short get something to eat and fuel up the car stop. After being around them people for 10 minutes I needed a bath.

So I am not surprised that this stuff happens in the south. They are almost the worst place in the country. Only place I can think of that beats the "Bible belt" is California.

In the interest of not bashing the south too badly, it should be noted that alot of Baptist churches that happen to be in the south are not part of the SOUTHERN BAPTISTS. In fact, there's been a bit of a rush in some areas to distance themselves from the SB mandates of reinforced polarization.

They literally preach polarization as a good thing. Surround yourself with Christians. Hire them. Make sure your children date them. Breed them. Limit consumption of secular activites. Don't let the PTA influence you. Don't listen to politcal debates. Your preacher knows best. Be as a sheep to your shephard. Stray not from the flock.

And this pulpit voting block is uniformly Republican as it so happens.

I've gone to a SB church a few times recently with a family member and been SHOCKED at what they say about the "evil intentions" of those outside the church like blacks, jews, western europeans and democrats.

It's not the way the Southern Baptists of Jimmy Carter used to be. But then he got out years ago.

I was raised Southern Baptist. To be quite fair, the Southern Baptists have come under quite a bit of criticism for several years now. Seems the convention are getting way too big for their britches. Southern Baptist was founded on the idea of autonomous churches (no central structure at all) - which leads one to wonder who dreamed up the darned convention in the first place. But where they really p*ssed in their own post-toasties in when they came up with a "creed" for theological students. This is 100% contrary to Southern Baptist teaching - that no creed, no allegiance should be put in place that could contend with the commitment to the gospel (and this foundational decision was based on a very adverse feeling toward what I personally view as a disgusting thing - the Apostolic Creed.) When the convention decided to attach a creed to the theological students a large number of Southern Baptist churches in Texas revolted and split away from the Southern Baptist Convention - kudos to them.

I am not formally affiliated with any church at this time. I do believe, after years of religious and spiritual research, that the Baptist theology makes the most sense to me, and I will continue to carry it as the foundation of my spiritual beliefs...

but boy have the Southern Baptists gone nuts in the past decade...whew!

I have been going to Southern Baptist churches off & on my whole life. the majority do preach polarization to a mild degree, as far as surround yourselves with Christians. I have never seen the attitude that blacks, Jews, etc were evil. Seems like you guys may be thinking of the KKK
or maybe the snake handlers, whatever they are called. Dunno though, maybe Georgia is very different than Al.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Well, the south, aka "Bible Belt" or "Redneck Country" or "Confederate States" or "White inbred religous nutbags" is a place I really don't care to go. Florida yes, but never stop in Georgia or any other former slave states if you don't believe in inbreeding or christianity or the "black man should be put back in his place" crap. I went to Florida for spring break, but when I stopped in Georgia I was afraid to say anything besides "Damn 'n-word' drivers, not breeding with their relatives, we should put them back on the plantations!" I know it is wrong to make stereotypes, but these people were why the stereotype was created. These people didn't have enough teeth left to lie through. Thankfully it was just a short get something to eat and fuel up the car stop. After being around them people for 10 minutes I needed a bath.

So I am not surprised that this stuff happens in the south. They are almost the worst place in the country. Only place I can think of that beats the "Bible belt" is California.

Sorry for the big quote but it goes along with what I'm about to say:

There's not a single syllable of this that I don't find offensive. This is the most idiotic pile of blather that I've seen in a while. You just admitted that you didn't have the back-bone to do anything more than make a disgustingly bigoted statement because you had set up a stereotype so rigidly in your mind, you didn't have the nuts to go against it...even if it weren't true.

I'm not from "the south"...and I find your assumptions and bigotry disgusting.

shame shame

You know why the Southern Baptists are criticized? Five words: Fred Phelps and Jerry Falwell.

I would like to chime in with a word of sanity and reason in this thread that threatens to degrade itself to the level of mud pit activity. First I would like to come to the defence of the SB convention for what it decided to do, not because I necessarily agree with them but because their point needs airing.

In my estimation they decided to break away from the world body because they believe it has become too liberal in its thinking. Liberal being defined as moral relativism and had denied the authority of scripture. This from the link in the first post.

some in the alliance had questioned "the truthfulness of Holy Scripture," refused to affirm the necessity of conscious faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, promoted women preachers, criticized the SBC and its foreign mission board and adopted an "anti-American" tone.

Now if the SOuthern Baptists are sincere in their faith in the Bible and believe, as many do, that the USA was fundamentally a Christian nation as was declaired by the Supreme court in the Late 1800's, and stands as a beacon of freedom to the world, then they are required by those beliefs to remove themselves from an organization that declairs otherwise. Now make no mistake, either the SB are right in their beliefs or they are wrong. If they are right then all those who are blasting them for standing on their faith are in danger of judgement. If they are wrong then they are poor decieved souls who are unnecessarily isolating themselves from a world organization that could assist them in seeing the error of their ways. Personally I would rather they err on the side of standing up for what they believe in. Those who say that their opinions and beliefs are fine for them but don't really apply to anyone else have no real beliefs at all. Baptists are labelled intollerant because they believe in the truth of the Bible. The Bible declairs itself to be the true and accurate witness of God and His relationship with man. Hence those who truely believe in the Bible should say that anything that stands in contradiction to the Scripture is wrong or in error. Those who live in rebellion to that word will reap the consequences of that sin promised in the Bible. This is not intollerance, it is truth if the Bible is true. If a Christian were to say to a Hindu it is ok that you worship your idols that person is either a hypocrite or does not have the love of their God for the lost Hindu who is in danger of the judgement promised in the Bible for idol worshippers.

I say all that to come to this point. It is better to be true to your beliefs than to not have any or to have beliefs that are only held some of the time. One is a sure foundation for life, the other is moral and spiritual quicksand.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by Johannmon]

I'm not a member of the Southern Baptists. I belong to the Evangelical Free Church. The Bible tells us "in the last days there will come a falling away from the faith". They are making a stand for what the Bible says is the truth. Christian denominations are undergoing a "sifting" from God. Especiaaly since Sept. 11th, false christians and real christians are being seperated. Real christians will remain faithful to the Bible, while false ones are having to decide if what they profess is true. The false will turn away from God.

Mon Du, just makes me glad I'm a Pagan.

Just more extremism by the Southern Baptists. It just shows how the Fundamentalist Christians have an inablity to see any trends in social movement or general society.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the extremeists do not speak for the majority of the global poplulation, thank whatever god, goddess, alien or random chance you worship for that.

Blessed Be
~Astral

Originally posted by metalmessiah
I have been going to Southern Baptist churches off & on my whole life. the majority do preach polarization to a mild degree, as far as surround yourselves with Christians. I have never seen the attitude that blacks, Jews, etc were evil. Seems like you guys may be thinking of the KKK

or maybe the snake handlers, whatever they are called. Dunno though, maybe Georgia is very different than Al.

Okay, to clarify what was being "preached" in this family member's SB church (before he got kicked out for dating a divorced women ).

Yes, the polarization thing was a biggie. How the Church was going to die if outside influences continued to creep in. How it would die if they didn't make more Christians. How you may think it's okay if your son dates a girl of another faith while away at college, maybe of another race, maybe a Jew that denounces our Lord and Savior...but is it okay? How will your children be raised? Where will they attend Church? Will they even attend Church? Will your child change them, or will they change your child? And so on.

The last time I went it was actually a smug little joke FROM THE PULPIT about the difference in how a Black and a Jew might come by a new a bicycle (I won't repeat the joke), but of course he immediately clarified and rectified and denounced racism (after his joke). Whatever.

I didn't mean to imply though that SB's overtly preach racism as a doctrine, but the THEM and US mentality of polarization does creep in.

Oh, and good post on the clarification about Moral Relativism Johannmon.

Yup, that's how this church talked about the outside influences of those people. AKA Democrats. Man, thinking back...it was awful. Talking about the genocide of babies just to ease the lives of woman of ill repute, how rogue judges run this land, not God, how a cleansing fire is coming... oh man, I need a shower.

[edit on 16-6-2004 by RANT]

What a ignorant post. I am from texas, i was born here, and raised/ Big deal , does that mean that I am racist, have no teeth, or Babtist. Hate to break it to you buddy, but you are a stone cold idiot. You talk about Judgmental , people , and yet you displayed this horrible syndrome with incredible fluency in your post. You should really do a check into you history, and the norths history. We weren't the only ones with slaves..... By the way, I am Christian, have a 152 iq. Best friend is black, live with a black guy, god father of a Mexican child, and my God father is Indian, born and raised in Africa, and I have all my teeth, go figure?

[edit on 16-6-2004 by infovacume]

In my estimation they decided to break away from the world body because they believe it has become too liberal in its thinking. Liberal being defined as moral relativism and had denied the authority of scripture. This from the link in the first post.

some in the alliance had questioned "the truthfulness of Holy Scripture," refused to affirm the necessity of conscious faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, promoted women preachers, criticized the SBC and its foreign mission board and adopted an "anti-American" tone.

Yes, you are correct, this was a major part of the decision.

I say all that to come to this point. It is better to be true to your beliefs than to not have any or to have beliefs that are only held some of the time.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by Johannmon]

I would offer that this is not always true...especially if your beliefs are warped. Hence, some pretty nasty stuff going on in certain parts of the world.

The Southern Baptist foundational doctrine is NOT warped. The Southern Baptist Convention does NOT represent one single Southern Baptist Church. Each Southern Baptist church is autonomous, hence the strife in the Texas churches that they would no longer have any connection to the convention. This is the problem I have with the convention. It has placed itself in a position to cause the world to believe that it is a governing body of the churches,...it is not; or speaking for the churches...it does not. There is not one single decree/statement/etc. from the convention that must be even acknowledged by any given church. The problem arises when the convention decides to boycott something, swing some kind of political sword - it gives the appearance that there is a collective body of S.B. churches in an organized movement. There is not. If one particular church decides to jump when the convention barks - that's their business, but no other S.B. church's.

If you have been to an S.B. church whose preacher is bigoted, or preaches some type of non-participation in anything outside the church - you are dealing with an autonomous body of people who have decided to run their church this way, and want to be bigots. But that has no reflection on any other S.B. church because there is no central command center that tells all churches to be bigoted.

The Southern Baptist doctrine does not contain anything about races, about inter-marrying, about politics (accept that I can tell you in the church I was raised I was taught what Christ said and that is - Give Ceasar his due - and - abide by the laws of your country. I take Christ to mean I need to be a law-abiding, taxpaying member of whatever society I am a part of.) It is foundationally Baptist - the same as any other Baptist denomination in its foundational doctrine - based on the teachings of Christ - and Christ never said be a bigot and don't inter-marry.

S.B. churches do abide by the Pauline principles more than I think they should...but so do a lot of other protestant churches. My personal beliefs (the ones I'm sticking with ) tell me to put the red-letter words FIRST, and the black-letter words second. If a Pauline principle in any way causes a contradiction to the red-letter words, I must personally abide by the red-letters - not Paul's. Because of the heavy abidance with the epistles of the apostles and disciples, the Southern Baptist churches do not allow women to preach - which is in direct opposition to the actions of Christ I might add. The very first preacher he commissioned was a woman at the well who had been married 3 times....he didn't seem to be bothered by her sex, or her bad-decision making skills. The S. B.'s seem to be a bit pickier...lol.

I live in GA. obviously I am not from GA, but religion in these part of the woods is incredible everybody belong to some denomination or other and they talk behind the backs of each others members and to me is a hole bunch of hypocrites.



[edit on 16-6-2004 by marg6043]

Thanks for clarifying the SB Convention versus it's individual autonomous Churches Valhall.

Though I know my dad's former backwoods Church is involved in the politics of the SB's, I should have known how they conduct themselves isn't "by the book".

It's just hard to say which came first with them. They are xenophobes, misogynistic, somewhat racist, overtly Republican, the town leaders and just happen to all go to the same SB Church.

Them asking my dad to leave the congregation seemed scandalous to me. In the long run, it will be good for him....but in the short run, his business will suffer dramatically. Small town politics you know. Church is where you do your business and politics. Southern Democrats do it to.

I'm from NC, and I went to a southern baptist church for a while, and all I can tell you is What a bunch of hypocrits!!!!!! Man they have rules for their rules, you can't drink, inside the church or outside the church, but didn't Jesus serve wine at the last supper??

Then you see the wonderful people of the congregation damning anyone who does drink and you find them in the local convenience store buying up all the beer.

My dad always says if you want to find a hypocrit, go to church.