The Roswell incident of 1947. Was it hastily "staged" to cover something else?

The Roswell incident of 1947. Was it hastily "staged" to cover something else?

In 1945, immediately after the end of World War II, the U.S. brought in many German scientists and engineers (as well as some former SS intelligence officers) to New Mexico through a program called Operation Paperclip.

It is said that many were initially stationed at Albuquerque's Kirtland Army Air Field (present Kirtland Air Force Base). Some of the scientists and engineers were then trasferred to Los Alamos.
Some others were transferred to White Sands Missile Ranges.
Many of the German engineers played some significant roles in the development and testing of U.S. rocketry in the late 1940's.

The U.S. military also secretly began to test-fly several prototypes of unconventional, flying wing aircraft (some with Ramjet engines) which the Germans developed in the early 1940's, including a few of the Horten brothers' flying wings.
It is said that one of the Horten brothers' flying wing aircraft may have even reached speeds of up to 600 miles per hour when tested in Germany in 1943.

It is said that, with the help of these scientists and engineers, the U.S. military secretly conducted these tests over the deserts of southern New Mexico in 1946 and 1947. Other flight tests may also have been conducted in wide areas in the Western states, extending from Washington all the way to Texas.

These prototypes of flying wing aircraft were basically crescent-shaped. Some others were delta-shaped or manta ray-shaped.

Accidental crashes of some of these craft may have necessitated the creation (and even "staging") of convenient "cover stories".

So, what actually did happen near Roswell, in July of 1947?

The bottom line is that there is no hard, tangible, solid, physical, irrefutable, documentary evidence that a physical, extraterrestrial spacecraft crashed outside of Roswell in July of 1947.

But something did happen outside of Roswell.

It is extremely difficult to conceive in my mind that any highly advanced extraterrestrial civilization, traversing through this vast space and arriving at our earth would even "crash".

The concept of something "crashing" is simply a typical human concept.
It is only a human, limited, "linear" viewpoint bound by a uni-dimensional, "empirical" thinking.
Any highly advanced civilization (that could even penetrate our dimensional barrier in a non-linear fashion) would never have such accidents, in my opinion.

Stephen Hawking, theoretical physicist and one of the most brilliant minds of our time, states that in this wide universe there ought to be civilizations somewhere besides our earth.
However Stephen Hawking also states that no aliens have ever come or will ever come to earth in UFOs. (What Stephen Hawking was referring to was UFOs as physical alien spacecraft.)

The late Carl Sagan, who was also one of the most brilliant minds of our time, basically said the same thing.

If given a choice to choose between Stephen Hawking and "ufologists", I will definitely go with Stephen Hawking.

So, in conclusion, if there were indeed such a "crash" near Roswell in 1947, the only way it could have been a "crash" would have been if it were intentionally "staged".

Norio Hayakawa
www.myspace.com...

I heard one explanation, from a former insider who claimed the UFO was brought down accidentally by an EMP pulse from Nuclear tests at White Sands NM.

I cant verify that, but it is interesting.

Apart from.... The Horten brothers only ever built and flew one of their designs with jet engines and they were the Junkers Jumo engines made for the Me262, so not ram jets. It flew for a total of about 2 hours before crashing and killing its' test pilot in 1945.

The only other airframes built were mock ups or gliders and all but one of those were destroyed by a British bombing raid on the Gotha factory. It is thought a single Go2229 survived and was captured by the Americans.

You might like to read this from one Geoff Steel
Just read, with great interest, your information on the Horten IX (Go-229). You may be interested to note that the Air & Space Museum in Washington has not only the center section of the V-3 airframe, but also a set of wings for it. There is some conjecture that the wings may not [have been] actually intended for flying (vs. the possibility they were built for static testing of the airframe by Gotha), as the fittings seem somewhat crude and it's not certain that all the control linkages are correct. We will see for sure when we attempt to mate the wings to the center section as the aircraft goes into the process of being restored for display in the new Udvar-Hazy facility at Dulles Airport. That restoration is probably a couple of years away, at least. Your text mentions that the V-3 prototype has retractible gear and an "internal weapons bay for up to 2,000 lbs. of weapons." I don't believe this information is correct. I've extensively photographed that aircraft center section, and there is no "weapons bay" that I've observed. There is barely enough room for all three of the retractible wheels, due mainly to the large oversize nosewheel (that was a tailwheel of a Dornier bomber scarfed from a boneyard). By the time you retract that wheel rearward and tuck it behind the pilot, and retract the two mains inboard of the jets, there is no room left for 'bomb-type' weapons. There was barely room for the two cannon and their ammunition just outboard of the engines, and I don't believe the V-3 prototype even has those. I think it would have been intended for further flight testing of the airframe, and not a 'serious' armed fighter prototype for actual testing as a gun platform. It's also interesting that there is a theory that due to instability of the aircraft around the yaw axis, it would not have been a good gun platform after all (especially if one cannon had jammed, which would have created adverse yaw when trying to hold a bead on a target). The pilot would have been unable to control yaw with any 'immediate' precision, thus keeping a stream of shells (with tracers) locked on a target at some range would have been quite difficult. This, then, might have seemed to argue against its value as a fighter, but it could have served a role as a ground attack weapon system because of its speed, slim "target" profile, and potential for carrying external stores. Regards, Geoff Steel.

What i find funny about Roswell is, When does a pile of rubbish, as shown in the office, get to resemble a "Crashed Disc" as was first reported ?

No-one could make that connection from the evidence shown. To describe something as being a disc, then logic would suggest something strongly resembling a disc was seen.....no ?

no its not a cover for it it's an alien crash site for it

The myth of German super advanced aircraft is all over the web and believed by many here on ATS. While it's true the German jets were superior ( in some ways) to American and British jets of the same time, they were not light years ahead in development, only marginally so. The Me 262 was about the only operational jet, and was flown and tested extensively by the US. Either the current Air Classics or I think, Aviation Heritage magazines ( ii can't remember which), has an excellent article on this subject. German jets weren't too secret, they were well known from the war.
It's doubtful they were flown very far from their test bases. While your idea makes way more sense than a crashed flying saucer, this period in aviation development is pretty well documented, and doesn't support that idea.

reply to post by Norio Hayakawa


If you really want to know, then buy

- Witness To Roswell by thomas J. Carey & Donald R. Schmitt
- UFOs and the National Security State 1941-1973 by Richard M. Dolan
- UFOs and the National Security State 1973-1991 by Richard M. Dolan

I have bought and am reading these three books and no, it wasn't a weather balloon.

These three books are very informative and well written. I don't have a lot of spare money, but I am glad I bought these books.

Written very intellegently and listing all the facts.

I haven't finished any of these three, but from what I have read is monumental.

As a side note: I do not know or have a connection with any of the folks that wrote or published these three books. I'm just an average 9-5 smuck.

[edit on 9-7-2010 by ofhumandescent]

Originally posted by ofhumandescent

I'm just an average 9-5 smuck.

[edit on 9-7-2010 by ofhumandescent]

You're far from the average smuck, because you're willing to think outside the mainstream box and search for truth. This alone, if nothing else, takes you well above the average guy.

While it's true the German jets were superior ( in some ways) to American and British jets of the same time, they were not light years ahead in development, only marginally so.

The precision of the ceramic bearings in the German engines helped make them much more reliable at least till the Allies caught up.

I'm not sure Roswell was all about crashed jets though. After WW2 there were likely all kinds of NWO meetings and assignment casting etc. It will all probably be classified till Armageddon. I wonder who's decision it was to let the cold war nuclear arms race continue after Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Scary times.

I would assume the base commander would be privy to the knowledge of secret test flights, probably out of his base. And would have a better cover story than "we got a flying disc," only to change the story the following day.

Besides, there was a lot more to this story than a crashed test flight. The amount of activity post-crash, was much greater than can be explained away from either a weather balloon (lol), or even a test aircraft.

It was a crash - a crash of one of our first inertia-reduction technology craft, the first somewhat-operational von Neumann-Einstein drive.

They didn't want it to get out, the "flying disk" thing was popular at the time, so it became a crashed alien craft as a secondary level cover story, with the weather balloon as a first level.

It worked so well, they kept doing it.

Originally posted by ken10
What i find funny about Roswell is, When does a pile of rubbish, as shown in the office, get to resemble a "Crashed Disc" as was first reported ?

No-one could make that connection from the evidence shown. To describe something as being a disc, then logic would suggest something strongly resembling a disc was seen.....no ?

The debris were just that debris!

What pile of rubbish? you mean the weather balloon picture in the newspaper I bet.

The rest of the craft was trucked away so the story goes, and you need to study a bit more indepth.

What I can gather after many years of sifting through roswell testomonies etc. a high powered radar system or other was responsible for taking it down, but not only one disc but two?

[edit on 10/7/10 by Bob Down Under]

This is going to be copied from here
Project Avalon

Hi, Folks:

Here's more from my files.

This image was said to be an original of the crashed craft (the site where the bodies were found).

Caveat: I do NOT know anything about this photo, and have not found it elsewhere. I am NOT claiming this is the actual craft. I present it here for interest.

Edit: I've just added the photo of the actual crash site for comparison. I HAD NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE. I've just had an epiphany (live, writing this post on the Avalon Forum)... I do now think this photo is genuine. Compare the hillside in the background, bearing in mind that the angle will be slightly different. All opinions welcome.

Here's an intriguing video - which some of you may have seen before. If this is a fake (which it might be), it's very well done.

Very interesting video

Do watch this. I'm not convinced that this is not real.

The original audio of the radio news report:

Original Audio

Two well-known images of General Roger Ramey with Jesse Marcel at the July 1947 press conference:

[edit on 11-7-2010 by blankduck18]

[edit on 11-7-2010 by blankduck18]

[edit on 11-7-2010 by blankduck18]

I've certainly read a lot about Roswell. It was the first story that really hooked me into UFOlogy, several years ago.

After reading so much about it, from all angles, I've come to a certain conclusion:

It's entirely possible the mundane explanation "Project Mogul" is really what happened. You have to at least consider the possibility that an operation containing secret military technology the public was unaware of, crashing in the middle of nowhere with dummies onboard, could be heavily misconstrued by onlookers. You have to at least consider that because this technology was unrecognizable, observers jumped to the conclusion it was E.T in origin.

I'm not saying with any certainty there was no E.T involvement in Roswell, I'm just saying it's much more likely Project Mogul is THE explanation.

reply to post by SaosinEngaged

It's entirely possible the mundane explanation "Project Mogul" is really what happened. You have to at least consider the possibility that an operation containing secret military technology the public was unaware of, crashing in the middle of nowhere with dummies onboard,

From what i know, project Mogul was a listening device hoisted aloft by a balloon, to try and listen for nuclear explosions from the USSR. So "Dummies" were not afaik used in that operation.

Also because, apart from its secret purpose the Project Mogul Balloon would probably have been a disposable object like any other weather balloons used, That's why i find it funny any fuss would have been made about its retrieval, Let alone publishing a cover story of a "Crashed Disc" ?