Scientists, psychologists, psychiatrists and religion

This is a thread concerning what people state as the truth, and what really is the truth.

I have already made a few posts about scientists, and the essence of those posts is that while scientists do discover a lot of important things, whenever I see the headlines "Scientists discover... I then read on and find "scientists think that...".

As for psychiatrists, I am sorry but I think that most of them are barking mad.

Psychologists, I believe, do help people, but only to a certain extent.

Religion - a difficult subject. If not for religion, there would not have been so many wars. On the subject of religion, many people are brainwashed. No-one knows who or what is up or out there.

So, what I mean to say is - believe in yourself, believe in the strength within yourself, and do not let anyone else deflect you.

reply to post by catwhoknows


Well, a psychiatrist is basically a medical doctor with a specialty who practice pure medical model (hence prescriptions for everything). A psychologist is more of a therapist. These two have a lot more in common with science due to both areas being observation based.

Science is of course defined by the Scientific Method. Science is mutable. What is 'fact' today can be proven wrong as more information comes available.

Religion though is pure dogma and fuzzy feelings. This does not indicate any sort of validity. Simply that there is no way to test anything in religion.

As for the first three, I am not sure they really try and control per se. It is more 'this is the symptom, this is what has happened in the last X people with those symptoms, this is why we are doing this'.

Religion is just control.

Could you clarify a bit though on what the thread is? I am unsure if what I am babbling about fits it or not

reply to post by lordtyp0


I think psychiatrists and religion are the culprits - they both administer drugs.

Of the mind and of the psyche.

Originally posted by catwhoknows
I have already made a few posts about scientists, and the essence of those posts is that while scientists do discover a lot of important things, whenever I see the headlines "Scientists discover... I then read on and find "scientists think that...".

The thing is, that has more to do with the people making the headlines than it does the scientists. Newspaper headlines aren't as exciting or salable if you put something like "Scientist might have perhaps discovered a potential cure for cancer, maybe..." - there's the same trend on here, how many threadlines (sic) do you see that state things such as "Truth of Jesus" or "Proof of Aliens" that turn out to be misquotes of other articles etc?

reply to post by jokei


Exactly.

So the truth would be nice, and since we cannot depend on other people to tell us the truth, we have to find the truth within ourselves.

reply to post by catwhoknows


That's a nice idea, but I'm a care worker, not a doctor, physician or psychologist - what do I do when I break my leg?

reply to post by jokei


When you break your leg, and I hope not, you go to the good old underfunded hospital.

I don' get the point - I was not putting down hospitals.

reply to post by catwhoknows


Pardon me if I've misinterpreted your OP, but it seems you're critiquing the search for "truth" tm in external bodies, be it scientists, psychologists etc - I challenged that, because I see a lot of cases (especially on here) where the people claiming truth/proof are often misinterpreting the results of scientists, psychologists etc. That isn't to denigrate the work of the aforementioned professionals, just a note to be cautious with regard to information we believe - especially second-hand information that has been adulterated by the media, a poster on here etc. Chinese whispers is a good example.

You then go on to respond to this with:

Originally posted by catwhoknows
So the truth would be nice, and since we cannot depend on other people to tell us the truth, we have to find the truth within ourselves.

This is where I think you missed my point, perhaps. I think we do have to rely on professionals with specific fields of experience as and where it relates to us. Something that springs to mind was the (idiot) thread suggesting healing the oil spill with prayer. Now, whilst I don't necessarily trust scientists - especially those employed by BP, they will stand a much higher chance of achieving results than praying.

reply to post by jokei


My exact point is this - do not rely on anyone else to tell the truth, because they won't.

You have to look for the truth within yourself - not with these so-called professionals.

And not with anyone - the truth is within yourself.

I'm not really a fan of Psychiatry, but wouldn't it make much more sense to combine psychiatry and psychology? Or even just implement a person who does both? I never understood why the two were compartmentalized.

reply to post by impaired


It is difficult for most people to see the difference betwen psychiatry and phsychology - it took me a long time.

You don't need either if you look into your own mind - why let other people meddle with your mind?

Originally posted by catwhoknows
This is a thread concerning what people state as the truth, and what really is the truth.

This is a conspiracy, exactly how? This thread is based on your opinion, and personal experiences. While this may be the truth for you, it might not be for somebody else.

I have already made a few posts about scientists, and the essence of those posts is that while scientists do discover a lot of important things, whenever I see the headlines "Scientists discover... I then read on and find "scientists think that...".

Uh huh, and your thread is based on what you think.

As for psychiatrists, I am sorry but I think that most of them are barking mad.

Well, that's nice for you.

Psychologists, I believe, do help people, but only to a certain extent.

Ok, and thisi is why?

Religion - a difficult subject. If not for religion, there would not have been so many wars. On the subject of religion, many people are brainwashed. No-one knows who or what is up or out there.

And.....? So you put a thread in the religious conspiracy forum, based on your assessment of religion, and then tie it in with psychiatrists, and psychologists?

So, what I mean to say is - believe in yourself, believe in the strength within yourself, and do not let anyone else deflect you.

Are you qualified, by way of a medical degree, to advise people whether or not to seek help when it's needed? Some people, like schizophrenics need the help of a psychiatrist. Some depressed people need the help of a psychologist.

The truth is, in your thread, what works for you, might not work for another person, and unless you can provide some other proof of your conspiracy, other than your opinion, I do believe you are giving bad advice here!

[edit on 8-7-2010 by Blanca Rose]

Hi everyone,

I've been beating the drum for Milton Erickson en.wikipedia.org...

He's a psychiatrist and hypnotist and did lots of interesting work, well worth exploring if you don't know much about him, it seems you are looking for answers and its true that many answers are within but its even more true that the wisdom of one pales into nothingness compared to the wisdom of asking people for their knowledge.

As to religion, its a load of old bunk but does have MANY good points, but its all a bit out-moded now, scientists by and large are not scientific and has a near total lack of understading how a person works, you want an example? One of the 'cures' for a delusional patient who thinks he is Jesus is to set up a meeting with someone else who also thinks they are Jesus, the two cancel each other out, think about it

Peace

reply to post by yyyyyyyyyy


He is both a psychiatrist and a hypnotist?

Run away.

reply to post by catwhoknows


Looks like a sliding scale to me

Science- Truth as we understand it without faith
Psychiatry- Faith based science
Religion- Faith based philosophy

Psychology does not really fit in there, psychology is really harmless. They talk with you and listen and sometimes may give you little advice.
Science like i said is truth as we know it like when everyone knew earth was flat, now we know it is round. Psychiatry is retarded faith based science, The DSM is about as fact based as any bible. Oh wait it is not the bible talks about places that are real (like egypt) and the DSM can still not objectively proove the validity of any single mental illness. Religion is just philosophy that people in the past used to twist around to gain power. But one main thing to note is that the more facist a government becomes the less you see of religion and the more psychiatry you see. Like Max de Crinis was head of the T4 Euthanasia Program and the director of the European League for Mental Hygiene. In soviet russia they practiced Punitive psychiatry, which was amazing because by sending people who were not loyal to stalin got sent to mental hospitals for treatment. From the dissidents Andrei Snezhnevsky invented a new illness called sluggishly progressing schizophrenia.

reply to post by catwhoknows


Milton is a facinating person, he's been described as the Mozart of psychiatry and apparently worked with over 30,000 in a 60 career and there are over 100 institutions baring his name I heard. I know you're joking when you say run away (?) and I've learned many things from reading and listening to him speak.

According to the internet he is a founding father of most of the fields in psychology like focused therapy and brief therapy, was one of the leaded inspriations for NLP, introduced the world to "word salad" and used a lot of embedded commands to make people happy and function better and so many other things like time distortion, automatic writing and probably lots of other cool stuff I am not away of.

One day his dughter came to him and said she had an important exam and was not feeling confident in her ability. Milton hypnotized her, so the story goes and two weeks later she gets a letter from her school saying she passed the examine with flying colours, she was really happy to get an A on the test but still, one thing bothered her, she had no conscious memory of taking the test. She took it while in an altered state of consciousness and her brain made sure it would get the right ressult.

Interesting stuff, no wonder people might want to happily run away from the subject

Edit to add, just looked on wiki, turns out all psychiatrists are trained in psychology but the reverse is not true, in a generaal sense a psychiatrist deals with the whole spectrum of human experiences up to and included severe mental health issues while a psychologist deals with "normal" to depressed people. hope that helps

[edit on 9-7-2010 by yyyyyyyyyy]

reply to post by zaiger


quote Psychology does not really fit in there, psychology is really harmless. They talk with you and listen and sometimes may give you little advice.

Wow, in my experience just listening and giving a little bit of advice is the MOST powerful treatment in exisitance, the effect cannot be under-estimated. Where you see it as harmless I see it as one of the most effective ways to clear up (for want of a better expression) issues that are affecting people, likewise, incorrect use of telling stories can lead to wars, muder, theft and suicide, the stories told my the MSM are great examples of psychology in action albeit in an unusal and non-person way.

If you doubt me go and watch those (to me horrible) Saw movies, imagine as your watching how angry you are and note your feelings after 8 hours of watching. Its classic hypnosis in action, but not in a good way.

Just my uninformed opinions of course.

[edit on 9-7-2010 by yyyyyyyyyy]

What's truely insane is the "smoking can be healthy" ad I just saw to the right.
Once again proving ATS to be exactly what I've said it to be all along.

reply to post by lordtyp0


As a scientist also with a degree in psychology i must say i liked your answer of this post. Healthy and good opinions=

reply to post by yyyyyyyyyy


Calm down and actually read what i said before you start in with your strawman arguments. Psychology is mostly harmless is what i said. I did not say it was good for nothing. Yes, just listening to someone can be very helpfull. Which is why you would be a horrible psychologist because you obviously did not read what i wrote instead of just inventing something to argue about. Washing your car is harmless, but that does not mean it is not good.