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Hawaii's governor vetoes same-sex civil unions

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posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
WHAT BENEFITS TO MARRIED PEOPLE GET


Do you automatically get her inheritence?

Do you pay joint taxes?

Can your wife drive your rented car without an extra fee?

Can you visit her in the hospital without having to worry that you might not be left in?

Can you have your wife on your insurance?

Do I really need to go on and on?




posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by LibertyLover
 


RACE has nothing to do wwith this.... I have mentioned my point many times, but you refuse to listen...

If you let gays marry.... You have to let polygamist and everyone else do it....

Thats "equal rights" as you would put it... Where do you draw the line?



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet


Do you automatically get her inheritence? No

Do you pay joint taxes? yes

Can your wife drive your rented car without an extra fee? no

Can you visit her in the hospital without having to worry that you might not be left in? Yes, gays can to, its called a living will

Can you have your wife on your insurance? Yes, gays can to with some buisness and insurance companies, and recenlty Obama sent out a a thing for federal employees to get benefits.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
I have mentioned my point many times, but you refuse to listen...


May want to look in the mirror. I have pointed out the benefits to marriage at least three times in this thread and you still keep asking what benefits?


If you let gays marry.... You have to let polygamist and everyone else do it....


I would have no problem with polygamists as all can be held accountable for their own decision. Now, a child or an animal is very different.


Thats "equal rights" as you would put it... Where do you draw the line?


We draw the line at freedom. You want no one to have "special rights"? Then divorce your wife and live as cohabatants and see how different it is. You do this first and I will stop wanting the same rights/benefit/privelages as you have.

But, leave all us other people alone to make our own decisions.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
Do you automatically get her inheritence? No


Unless you have a prearrangement, this is a lie.


Do you pay joint taxes? yes


Hmm...you don't see this as a benefit?


Can your wife drive your rented car without an extra fee? no


Also a lie. Call your local car rental place.


Can you visit her in the hospital without having to worry that you might not be left in? Yes, gays can to, its called a living will


So, we have to get a special document when all you have to do is say "I Do"? Nope, no "special rights" there in the least.



Can you have your wife on your insurance? Yes, gays can to with some buisness and insurance companies, and recenlty Obama sent out a a thing for federal employees to get benefits.


Ah, so "some" is equal to "all"? When did this doublespeak start happening?

Again. You don't find this as YOU having the "special rights"? If not, then there is no more worth in discussing this with you.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by name pending
 

Marriage is not a Right Granted in the US Constitution, it’s a state thing.


You're right that marriage is not a right but you're far from right by saying it's a state thing.

Marriage is a sacred institute ordained by God beginning with Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

Since marriage is a religious rite, it bewilders me as to why homosexuals would want to lay claim to this institute since God destroyed cities that were filled with homosexuals.

Having children is not a right neither. It is a blessing and in todays society, not only homosexuals want to pervert this sacred institute, it's the radical womens liberation attitude that wants to destroy a sacred and holy ceremony that is milleniums' old.

We've all been given the freedom of choice. Homosexuals own decision will lead to their own destruction.

When homosexuals are feeling the the flames of Hell burning their flesh, they will have no one to blame but themselves.

Let the homosexuals get "married." We've all got to die one day.

Lessons from the First Marriage

THE SACRED ACT OF WEDDING

[edit on 7/7/10 by Intelearthling]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 11:46 AM
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Marriage should not be a state issue. If two gay citizens wish to enter into a marriage together they should be legally permitted to find their own minister/father or whatever, that will perform that marriage.

Government needs to stop giving benefits to married couples. That should not be any of their business. The homosexual community needs to approach gay marriage on a different bases, what they should do is constitutionally challenge the establishment and recognition of marriage, period.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
Yes, gays can to, its called a living will


Just to show the ignorance I am dealing with in this thread.

No, it is not called a living will. A living will is a document that states that you do not want to be rescusitated, etc.

www.mayoclinic.com...


Living will. This written, legal document spells out the types of medical treatments and life-sustaining measures you do and don't want, such as mechanical breathing (respiration and ventilation), tube feeding or resuscitation. In some states, living wills may be called health care declarations or health care directives.


No where does it state that you can name a person to be present during visitations.

Possibly a medical power of attorney can do that, but even then, it's not a garantee.

Still think you don't get "special rights"?

[edit on 7-7-2010 by Nutter]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by Intelearthling
 


That's funny. I just attended a same sex marriage in a church conducted by a joint union of an Episcopal priest (straight married woman) and a Rabbi (straight married man) this past weekend. The two (priest and rabbi) are not married to each other BTW. They seemed to have no problem with it. What's your problem?



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by Intelearthling
 

The bill had nothing to do with marriage. A civil union is not a marriage. However, neither same sex marriages or civil unions are not recognized in Hawaii.

However (since 1997) Hawaii has had Reciprocal Beneficiary Relationships, a means of sharing certain benefits (including medical insurance and hospital visitation, among other things).


[edit on 7/7/2010 by Phage]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by Nutter
 


No we don’t get special rights. You can thank your congressmen for righting the tax laws that lets people who are married filing jointly. People who are married get no special rights... Everything you mentioned isn’t a right.

When you figure out what are rights and what isn’t then we can talk. Nothing you have mentioned is a right.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by Nutter
 


Well since you are pointing out what you think his ignorance is then lets point out your failed logic.

A previous poster said that allowing gay marriage would open the door to having to allow polygamy, beastial marriage, and marriage between adults and children. You said you were fine with polygamy but not with animals or children. Why is that? If you think people should be free to marry any way they please, then how can you put your limits on who/what others choose to marry?

Also, using your logic that society has no right to place limits on you based on your choices, then why dont we let alcoholics go around driving drunk and running amok at work? The case could be made that they were born with a predisposition to choose to drink and so they should be free to live their lives as equals to the rest of us and not have their behavior limited based on their choices.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by Nutter
 


It just shows yours, in a living will you can name the executor of it, who YOU want present to make the decisions for you when you can’t make them. They are legally binding contracts, and to refuse a living will opens yourself up to lawsuits.

[edit on 7-7-2010 by poedxsoldiervet]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
Do you automatically get her inheritence? No


Unless you have a prearrangement, this is a lie.


Do you pay joint taxes? yes


Hmm...you don't see this as a benefit?


Can your wife drive your rented car without an extra fee? no


Also a lie. Call your local car rental place.


Can you visit her in the hospital without having to worry that you might not be left in? Yes, gays can to, its called a living will


So, we have to get a special document when all you have to do is say "I Do"? Nope, no "special rights" there in the least.



Can you have your wife on your insurance? Yes, gays can to with some buisness and insurance companies, and recenlty Obama sent out a a thing for federal employees to get benefits.


Ah, so "some" is equal to "all"? When did this doublespeak start happening?

Again. You don't find this as YOU having the "special rights"? If not, then there is no more worth in discussing this with you.


I did not lie about any of the things I mentioned... Because Marriage isn’t a right. My wife cannot drive my rental car, unless her name is placed on it. ( I have separate car insurances policies because it is cheaper.)

Your dwelling on special rights, married people do not get special rights, Rights are something protected by the US and State Constitutions. Marriage isn’t one of them. I will continue to say it Married Folks do not get special rights.

If Gays were not allowed to vote or run for office, or speak freely, carry guns, etc. then I would be up in arms because those are RIGHTS, guaranteed by State and Federal Constitution. Marriage is not… Although some states do recognize it. However the defense of marriage act in unconstitutional because Marriage is not defined in the US Constitution.

I should also add that my wife's money is her money and my money is my money. If she gets an inheritence, thats her money she can do what she wants with it. I have no say over how she spends her money, like she doesnt mine... We are two separate people not one person.


[edit on 7-7-2010 by poedxsoldiervet]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by Nutter
reply to post by Intelearthling
 

What's your problem?


Who said I had a problem? I haven't got a problem with it. I'm not queer so I don't have a problem with it.

I'm married but I didn't get married because of politics or rights. My wife and I got married because we want to become one in Gods' eyes.

BTW, like I said, WE'RE all going to die one day so go a. and do what makes you gay, oh, I mean happy.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling
You're right that marriage is not a right but you're far from right by saying it's a state thing.

Marriage is a sacred institute ordained by God beginning with Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.


Actually no, marriage predates recorded history and certainly did not begin with adam and eve, christianity, or judaism, but I won't even ask for any form of empirical evidence to support your claim since I'll probably just be bombarded with scripture.



Since marriage is a religious rite, it bewilders me as to why homosexuals would want to lay claim to this institute since God destroyed cities that were filled with homosexuals.


Many countries throughout the world have legalized same sex marriage and I don't see your loving God destroying anything.

I won't even address the rest of your post since it's obviously filled with nonsensical hatred.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Nutter
 


No we don’t get special rights. You can thank your congressmen for righting the tax laws that lets people who are married filing jointly. People who are married get no special rights... Everything you mentioned isn’t a right.

When you figure out what are rights and what isn’t then we can talk. Nothing you have mentioned is a right.


Maybe YOU should look up the meaning of rights. They are not only given to us by the constitution but by social and ethical principals as well.


Rights are normative (e.g. legal, social, or ethical) principles of freedom or entitlement. That is to say, rights are rules about what is allowed of people or owed to people, according to some legal system, social convention, or ethical theory. The concept of rights is often fundamental to civilized societies, and it is of vital importance in such disciplines as law and ethics, especially theories of justice and deontology.


en.wikipedia.org...



WASHINGTON - President Obama mandated yesterday that hospitals extend visitation rights to the partners of gay men and lesbians and allow same-sex couples to share medical power of attorney, perhaps the most significant step so far in his efforts to expand the rights of gay Americans. The president directed the Department of Health and Human Services to prohibit discrimination in hospital...


article.wn.com...

That's funny how they call them "hospital visitation rights", yet they aren't "rights"? Please enlighten me owe wise one of the rights.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by ZuluChaka
A previous poster said that allowing gay marriage would open the door to having to allow polygamy, beastial marriage, and marriage between adults and children. You said you were fine with polygamy but not with animals or children. Why is that? If you think people should be free to marry any way they please, then how can you put your limits on who/what others choose to marry?


I thought I went over this already, but.

Does a child have a say in the marriage? Does an animal?

That would be the difference.



Also, using your logic that society has no right to place limits on you based on your choices, then why dont we let alcoholics go around driving drunk and running amok at work?


Probably because that hurts/disrupts other people?


The case could be made that they were born with a predisposition to choose to drink and so they should be free to live their lives as equals to the rest of us and not have their behavior limited based on their choices.


They can drink themselves to death as long as they harm no one else. How is that such a hard concept?



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
It just shows yours, in a living will you can name the executor of it, who YOU want present to make the decisions for you when you can’t make them. They are legally binding contracts, and to refuse a living will opens yourself up to lawsuits.


A living will gives them instructions. Power of attorney names the person.

It sometimes helps to read links when they are given.

[edit on 7-7-2010 by Nutter]



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by Nutter
 


According to the Declaration on Independence

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights'.

www.unalienable.com...

en.wikipedia.org...


OUR rights are defined in the US Constitution and State Constitutions. Marriage isn’t in any of those documents. With the exception of certain states allowing gay marriage. Which makes them a Right in that State.




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