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Migratory Reform will save American Economy!!

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posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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The Peace of God to all tha belong to the light,
Dear Readers,

The American Economy is so bad injured, many are convinced that for so long time, and I am receiving periodically hundreds of messages to my imbox asking me for the miraculous solution that can fix this mess we are afronting since the second Bush Term.

Of course as in any other recession there radical groups pushing the cause of the discrimination and the xenofobia against the more vulnerable groups of the society, blaming them of all the problems of the country, although it is clear they are possibly the least guilty of them.

This is not new, also during the Great Depression of 1930's there was a witches hunting campaign in many States against the hispanic population, that even caused the deportation of people that were not only legal residents but moreover Citizens of the country, people that was born in American soil but whose only sin was to be of Hispanic Ancestry.

How bad is the collective memory of those fanatics that yesterday were favored the segregation cause, the same that were during 1950's insisiting to don't give civil rights to the African-American population, and that now are trying to do so with the Hispanic people in general and more intensively with the Mexican American community.

It seems that many of this fanatic defendors of the prosecution of migrants have forgotten that millions of their own ancestors came in the same way to America without any money or education, also that about one fourth of the land that this country was offering to them was acquired from Mexico.

Yes, it sound ironic but many of the so white minutemen that are supporting the discriminatory migration Lay of Arizona descend directly of people that arrived to those lands without money, education or any economical resource to occupy land that was taken from Mexico through war.

Well, now again it sounds ironic but I see clearly that the Migratory reform that The Obama Administration is trying to pass will be the only possible solution to make the American economy again competitive in the global economy.

Only the so cheap work of the hispanic migrants will give the necessary economical conditions to make possible for many small and medium size entreprises to overcome the crisis, also creating indirectly income source for many middle class americans owning them, and managing and sales jobs for other sectors of the American population.

Without that cheap cost of production that the migrants represent there is no real way for America to start to export items and in that way fix the so unbalanced trade with respect to other points of the world, specially the far east countries and particularly China that are now monopolizing many markets thanks to their relative low prizes of production.

It is true that this battle for the legalization of the migrants will not be easy, but I can foresee that this cause will go ahead and shall represent the salvation of the American Economy.

Thanks for your attention,

your friend,

The Angel of Lightness




posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 02:28 PM
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Hate to burst your bubble there, but where does that leave the millions of workers aged 16-25? most of us get the short end of the stick as far as jobs go as it is, how will this help us?!

We need to help the workers we already have available, an influx of cheap labor will only make things much much worse.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by sm0k3]



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 02:30 PM
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Your gonna get a lot of flack for this thread, but I agree with you 100%. My ancestors came here as poor non english speaking immigrants, it would be hypocritical to deny modern immigrants who are in the same situation entry, even a child can see that.


Originally posted by sm0k3
Hate to burst your bubble there, but where does that leave the millions of workers aged 16-25? most of us get the short end of the stick as far as jobs go as it is, how will this help us?!


You will have to compete for jobs, or just show some entrepreneurship and create new jobs, entrepreneurship is easy with cheap labor available, Ive been self employed since I was 15 and Im 18 now.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by CREAM]

[edit on 6-7-2010 by CREAM]



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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Hi,

This is not just a Bubble as it seems some of you think, it is solid and serious economical forecast based on actual analysis of what are the real causes of our economical crisis.

to think that the American young population must spent their better years only doing so bad paid jobs that dont have any future, that can not really serve to make successful career is to think in mediocrity.

The issue of our economy will not be definitively fixed by making our current youth an army of workers getting the so simple and cheap jobs of that Mexican or other foreghners are doing, that is a mirage, we need to generate more good jobs, more genuine opportunities or progress.

Only by thinking in big expectations, thinking that this administration can offer to that same generation of youths the opportunity to study technical and in Higher education programs , opening the doors of the Universities to millions of new students looking for a real future we are going to see the change America is demanding.



The American citizens that are so young to be entrepreuners can go a head with a very aggressive education reform , giving a lot of official resources to finance them, to get the necessary education they need to change their lives and be not only the entrepreuners this country need but also the Engineers and Scientists that currently we don't have and we are importing from Asia.

The migratory reform is not only a benefit for the illegals but a real need fo the country to be again competitive in the global economy and to do the jump from a merchantil economy, the biggest importer of the world, toward the future poweful exporter we must be in the future.


This opposition to the migratory reform is comming from the same extreme intransigent Right sector that is now saying to us that is not patriotic to have this people living here but it is indeed very patriotic to send thousands of millions of dollars to fareast to produce there what must be manufactored here, in American soil! this is a very double moral discourse, not only a hypocrital one.

Thanks for your comments,

your friend,

The Angel of Lightness




[edit on 7/6/2010 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by The angel of light
 


I actually mean this sweetly, even though I disagree with you on immigration...

You are somewhat undercutting the effect of your intellectual lecture or argument by making numerous spelling and grammatical errors...obviously this doesn't make your argument factually wrong, but it does have a subliminal effect that makes you seem absurd and stupid...

People are going to say to themselves, "How can The angel of light be smart enough to tell us what's what, when The angel of light keeps on spelling these nice big words incorrectly?"

When the reader sees you spelling "xenophobia" as "xenofobia", for example, they are (some of them) going to think of you as a foreigner and say "dang foreigner can't even spell 'xenophobia' correctly"...thus ironically you may be causing the xenophobia that you decry...(Not that I'm saying you are a foreigner, you could easily be a sweet semi-literate or dyslexic native-born English-speaking American)...

Anyways, I'm done, and I hope I didn't seem too mean...I'm only saying what others are thinking but not saying...If you are going to give us an intellectual hectoring about mercantile stuff, you will get better responses if you spell "mercantile" correctly.













[edit on 6-7-2010 by nine-eyed-eel]



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:48 PM
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Hi,

Any comment is respectable, now since the edition option is no longer available, it is only possible to say thanks to find the two spelling mistakes mixed on my last post, I am quite sure that if I would have offered some kind of special reward for such a task possibly nobody should have done it better or faster.

Now, as Gandhi once said, any insult says more about who gives it than about who receives it, so I am not really so worry if somebody can say, either in public or in private, if it was stupidity or lack of enough time the one that caused these typing mistakes.

However, this a nice opportunity to say that I sincerely hope that no body, based on the absurd legal precedent of this Arizonian version of apartheid, later in some time in our future can think that also dyslexia makes many Americans with such difficulty good candidates to lose their citizenships since they are not quite enough proficient in written English to deserve to conserve it.

After all, when the American sons or daughters of thousands of the so called illegal migrants might be forced to follow them to the exile there will be more minorities to blame and to prosecute in order to continue the ethnical cleaning that supposedly will miraculously fix the present economical recession.

Very interesting point, I am wondering what is thinking about all this Mr. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, well I mean of the five long years he was living in America as a illegal immigrant before to be a respectable Person?

By the way I am now thinking if Apartheid is correctly written here, but if that is not the case let me spell it for you:
A of Arizonan Minuteman paramilitary forces of “good will citizens”
P of Politicians wanted to spread fog curtains just to distract the public attention in times of crisis,
A of Attack to the civil rights
R of Ronald Reagan, that must be turning down in his tomb to see what is his party doing in the congress, when he condemned energetically the Cape Town regime in his days.
T of Tyranny of the intolerance of anything that sounds or looks different,
H of Human rights that was in other time the principal American flag in the International arena
E of Ethnical cleaning that finally looks to be arriving in certain points of America.
I of Intelligence that of course it is relatively absent to see clearly that this is a distraction sophism
D of Decision that it is what is strongly required to bring more industrial Capital from overseas, that is what it is really failing and causing the present crisis.

One last thing, do you have a good Job? I mean are you already employed? Perhaps it is really good to hire a spelling corrector for my threads.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness


[edit on 7/8/2010 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 09:18 PM
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Hi AOL I made it. I look forward to reading all your posts. Many blessings to you.



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 04:35 PM
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Based on the original thread, I feel you imply that it was the Republicans that fought against the civil rights back in the fifties. Its a common mistake you made, but it was indeed the Dems that opposed them.

Telling people who have committed crimes to partake in our better standard of living that they won't have consequences for breaking our laws is wrong. This will erase borders and send a message to Mexicans that we don't care if they invade our country. How can one say they are trying their hardest to keep terrorists from other countries out of the US with such a porous border? They aren't. This is just a ploy by liberal Democrats to get a 30+ million voter base forever indebted to them. They need to make up for the audacious legislation they've been cramming down our throats since they took total control.



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 06:23 PM
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How many amnesties have we had? Three? Guess what mr/mrs angel of light..
Amnesties do not work! Rewarding 16 million people for breaking the law is unconscionable. I would sooner see the whole economy collapse (effectively forcing a "reboot") than give amnesty. Why?

Doing the same action (in this case another amnesty) and expexting a different result is pure insanity.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 09:11 PM
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The Peace of God to be all that belong to the light,
Dear Readers,

This is a thread that is not against any political party, to the contrary, I think it is one that underline that in the History of Civil rights there were always sectors in both parties that saw them with friendship, convinced that they were going to carry a better society for America and there were others that remained extremly skeptical about that and moreover a third part that even opposed them thinking that it was the correct attitude.

The History it is always written by the interaction of contrary forces, and that is not really bad, is a way in which every new change is tested and evaluated deeply in order to be assimilated or modified before to be accepted by the consensus.

These is part of the mechanisms of refinement of the cultural evolution in the social aspects. The trully progressive changes were always the result of very participative processes and not the imposition of personal points of views.

Civil Rights was not the exeption of this rule, and if we are going to be honest both Political parties gave a tremendous contribution to this cause.

In the second half of the XIX century the civil rights cause looked practically only as a Republican one, with Abraham Lincoln leadering it, although it was President Buchanan the one that actually started its discussion from the Democratic side.

In the XX century the Eisenhower administration did a so important advance in the approval of educational and social projects that made possible the improvement of opportunities for the ethnical minorities, but it was the democratic one of Kennedy the one that opened the higher education to them in many segregationists states with the innovation of the ratial integration.

Now in migratory reforms concerning the Hispanic people nobody like President Ronald Reagan, a former Democratic politician but a Republican President, did more in the end of the XX century.

About promotion of ethnical diversity of course senator Edward Kennedy was the most decisive Legislator of the same period.

The first two State secretaries that were AfroAmericans were both in the G.W. Bush administration, but the first party to nominate an AfroAmerican was the Democratic one. In a similar way the first two ladies to become State secretaries have been Democratic , but the both parties have nominated a woman for the Vicepresidency.

So to be in favor or against or skeptical of the benefits or migratory amnisties or civil rights agendas is not a sectarian cause, also is not a one that can be defined as entirely conservatory or liberal.

Of course every generation in American History has balanced carefully the possitive or negative dividends of such important decissions before to go ahead and that is part of the natural way in a democracy.

As far as I can see, as a seer, if that is this case, that finally would become a fact only from a political consensus, and not as the result of political confrontations, if this will change arrives is since everybodyin some sense will see its benefit.

Possibly the migratory reform would not be exactly as now it is discussed or proposed, but with many important improvements and changes that will take in account all the impacts of this decision.

Thanks for your attention and valuable points of view,

your friend,

The Angel of Lightness



[edit on 7/19/2010 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by croweboy
 


Yes I understand your point croweboy,

To have order is fundamental to be able to go ahead in any project and to build a better society is a realy complex one.

However, here it is interesting to evaluate different philosophical categories to get a real deep perspective of what I feel is this thread tryig to explain or to propose a matter of collective discusion:

You know people, for different circumstances, can behave illegaly, but that not necessarily means that it is criminal or inmoral.

Illegal is something against a law or regulation or a rule, while
criminal is something punished by a law as it is a grave fault against the society, can be against the respect to the life, goods or honor of the members of a society, for instance.

Now inmoral is something that is against the high ordenances of God, if you belive in it, or against the most universal Ethics, the so called human rights.

I have the impression that the ample majority of the called illegals immigrants are good people that wants an oportunity, but that for their socio educational level they are privated of the judgement or even of the opportunity to go ahead through the legal frame.

Another problem is that the current migration regulations dont treat all the nationalities with the same rule, there are some that are subject to quota and others than not, there some that even have the opportunity to enter in a visa lotto but others that completly excluded, especially the ones from which there are already a lot of people living in the states.

Of course, the national security is, as you pointed, a major criteria that must be applied in the moment to determine who can be accepted and who cannot be accepted as an immigrant to the states.

Thanks for your participation in the thread.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 09:36 PM
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The Peace of God to all that belong to the Light,

Netwarrior,

There is a curious point that I would want to share with my readers here, specially with the ones that see this possible migratory reform with extreme skepticism, as it is your case, about its hypothetical benefits for the nation.

This point is that in the middle of this deep economical crisis there are, however, other developed countries, that are promoting migration like Canada, New zealand or Australia, and that look to think that it is not really bad in this times, but even benefitial to be able to overcome the crisis.

Canada, New Zealand and Australia are treating the immigrants as a source of work force, investment but also as source of professional skills in areas in which they have that need.

So are they correct or wrong in their appreciation of the migration factor?

There is something that is unique of the migrants in all the epochs and countries, that is, that they want to do what ever job somebody offer them, even the ones that usually are rejeted by the rest of the population.

In good times this is not really significant, since there are abundance of any kind of jobs, but it seems that in times of crisis, when the good jobs are very rare, it is common that the entrepreuners that are trying to survive in the market find that they are only able to hire migrants, and this happens even in countries in which they are not in illegal status as it happens in many cases in America in our days.

As it was stated in the opening of this thread, the possibility that the migration reform be approved would not means necesarily that these migrants will displace the citizens of the country, but that they could be hired by them as a cheap way to continue moving small or medium size businesses under the administration of the natives.

I am wondering if Perhaps, somebody in some where in some time in the not so far future in the world of politics will promote the idea of a packet of financial aid from the government for small companies, that look to be the ones that can move with less expenses in this so complicate recession.

One thing is sure, the students of business careers in many Universities might be in trouble to think what they are going to do if they graduate before this recession ends, It is logical to think that many new professionals, specially the young ones would prefer to try to impulse a microentreprises than to remain unemployed for years.

The worst point of this crisis is that there are millions looking for jobs and so it seems plausible to support the idea to help the people to be selfemployed.

thanks for your attention,

The Angel of Lightness

[edit on 7/19/2010 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by The angel of light

This point is that in the middle of this deep economical crisis there are, however, other developed countries, that are promoting migration like Canada, New zealand or Australia, and that look to think that it is not really bad in this times, but even benefitial to be able to overcome the crisis.


That is great, for those countries, they still have many of their older companies that they may add new jobs to. Did you forget, most of our old companies have been shipped to other countries, along with some of the newer ones. There is very little incentive left for small companies to grow, due to the government and large corporations having their hands in it. How are the small companies here, going to compete with large corporations that exist outside of this country? We have been reduced from a once mighty industrialize nation, to nothing but a consumer nation. A nation of spenders, not builders or makers. The one time little companies are now falling because they can not compete with over seas corporations, putting many out of work, along with the mom and pop buisnesses that catered to those workers.

So, how is allowing the illegals to work here, going to help those who are legal and out of work? What the government wants to do, will not happen over night. So in the mean time, there will still be a great number of legal citizens without a job. Why not help those who are following the law first? Those that are illegal, put themselves into that mess by not following the law. Should we also do this with anyone who breaks any law? Should we give amnesty to all law breakers? Or, is it just those who are illegal that deserve any amnesty?



Canada, New Zealand and Australia are treating the immigrants as a source of work force, investment but also as source of professional skills in areas in which they have that need.


We already have a source of work force here, they are called unemployed citizens, and a very big number of them in fact.



So are they correct or wrong in their appreciation of the migration factor?


As I stated above, sure, they can be. In this country, not so much.


There is something that is unique of the migrants in all the epochs and countries, that is, that they want to do what ever job somebody offer them, even the ones that usually are rejeted by the rest of the population.


Ah, but there is a difference. A migrant can be called either legal, or illegal. But, that is where it seperates. One lives in the country legally, and the other does not.



In good times this is not really significant, since there are abundance of any kind of jobs, but it seems that in times of crisis, when the good jobs are very rare, it is common that the entrepreuners that are trying to survive in the market find that they are only able to hire migrants, and this happens even in countries in which they are not in illegal status as it happens in many cases in America in our days.


So, which migrants are those companies using? Legal, or illegal? If they are using legal migrants, more power to them, if they are illegal, they need to be before a judge.


As it was stated in the opening of this thread, the possibility that the migration reform be approved would not means necesarily that these migrants will displace the citizens of the country, but that they could be hired by them as a cheap way to continue moving small or medium size businesses under the administration of the natives.


So, while they are waiting for that job, do they draw off the already broke system? Or, do we add more taxes to already over taxed people to pay for this? Is this called spreading the wealth?


I am wondering if Perhaps, somebody in some where in some time in the not so far future in the world of politics will promote the idea of a packet of financial aid from the government for small companies, that look to be the ones that can move with less expenses in this so complicate recession.


When you say government, don`t you mean the people? Because, it will be the people who will end up paying for this, not the government.


One thing is sure, the students of business careers in many Universities might be in trouble to think what they are going to do if they graduate before this recession ends, It is logical to think that many new professionals, specially the young ones would prefer to try to impulse a microentreprises than to remain unemployed for years.


That is fine thinking, but, how many years would it take for something like that to have any kind of effect on the unemployed stats overall?


The worst point of this crisis is that there are millions looking for jobs and so it seems plausible to support the idea to help the people to be selfemployed.


Very much so, but, how does migratory reform help that, or make it better?

[edit on 21-7-2010 by FiatLux]



posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by FiatLux

That is fine thinking, but, how many years would it take for something like that to have any kind of effect on the unemployed stats overall?


The worst point of this crisis is that there are millions looking for jobs and so it seems plausible to support the idea to help the people to be selfemployed.



Very much so, but, how does migratory reform help that, or make it better?



 


Well FiatLux,

What I am perceiving here is that there are two models of hypothesis of solution of the high rate employment in the country; the One I am trying to explore deeply, to legalize the so called illegal immigrants, and the one you propose to expulse them, but it is good to dont forget that in the long term what is really important is to stop this recession, and to do so it is vital to improve the demand of goods and services in the market.

One is the hypothesis that it is necessary to maintain the functioning expenses for the entrepreuners the lower that they can afford, in that one the idea is that the goverment must develope a very aggressive policy of promotion of creation or expansion of small and middle size companies. In that model looks to be more attractive to have low cost of work force than expensive one.

Other hypothesis is to promote a policy of stimulation of the employment, that is, to help the big corporations to hire more unemployed people, in that one of course you are thinking in the nationals and legal residents of the country as the primary source of work in the Laboral market.

The point is that when a country is severly attacked by recession, as is the present case in the USA, it is crucial to don't bid all to only one way to activate the economy, and check carefully not only the appearant benefit of a decission but also the risk that it is behind it.

My impression is that the so called illegals are now more employed by the informal economy, by very small entrepreuners than by big ones, so in the long term their expulsion of the country will not open new vacancies in the great corporations, but possibly will impact them indirectly due to the contraint in the demand of their goods in the market, laterly I will explain you that point too.

Now, for the mid size and mini or microentrepreuners is extremly difficult to hire with better salaries, for those businesses is not question of patriotism, but question of survival in a market, that you have pointed is now extremly competed thanks to the importation of many goods.

A casual observer could say that one way to do so, is to reduce the number of vacancies, that is, to hire with the same money that now is paid some number of illegals a smaller number of native workers.

Well that sounds interesting in appearance, from the point of view of the unemployed people, but from the point of view of the market it can mean a reduction of the demand of goods and services since all that mass of so called illegal workers and their families are comsuming a lot of what is currently sold, as for instance food, clothes, shoes, house items, etc etc.

A drastic reduction of the effective workers in the micro and mini entreprises would represent probably the collapse of medium size or even big size other companies that depend of their comsumption.

The point my friend is what is more effective to push America away of this crisis?

To try to open some number of very bad paid jobs or to try to boost the entrepreunal activity?

To make more Americans able to own their own businesses?

or to maintain an army of workers that are in general every day trying to win the battle of the unemployment?


Remember that Unemployment = lack of sources of jobs = lack of successful entreprises.

As I said in my previous replies, this is just a mere Hypothesis of how to move an economy in the very hard situation of the crisis, it is not a debate of legality versus illegality, after all I am sure everybody is wanted to legalize all this reality as soon as possible, in one or in other direction, either incorporated more people to the legality or to the contrary.


Of course you have explained another very different point of view, and I respect that, but I remain still dubious that after the massive deportation of illegals (that by the way are very well trained in many activities after years living here) America will gain so much, perhaps Canada or other destinations could profit a lot of that situation, since they need that qualified work force by now.

That is another interesting point of the discussion, that we are talking about qualified work force, and is something few analysts that are promotinig the deportation have carefully checked, in fact the public in general is observing them as a mass of parasits that live at our expense and that is not really true.

Other interesting ponit is what will be the impact of the repentine incorporation on such same tasks of some portion of the unemployed native people, I mean in the productivity of those economical sectors?, remember that many of those new workers would not be accostumed at all to that life or do not have any previous experience in those activities, since they are basically middle class people that now is just so disparate that are able to take any possible job?

it seems to me that many of the Illegal workers that are currently in America could move away so easy to our northern neighbor even improving their possibilities, after all in that country there is abundance of resident visas by now and with only four years of residence citizenships.

thanks for your attention, and of course we are here to listen more opinions.

The Angel of Lightness



[edit on 7/21/2010 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 09:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by The angel of light
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread590923/pg1#pid9263492]post by FiatLux


Well FiatLux,

What I am perceiving here is that there are two models of hypothesis of solution of the high rate employment in the country; the One I am trying to explore deeply, to legalize the so called illegal immigrants, and the one you propose to expulse them, but it is good to dont forget that in the long term what is really important is to stop this recession, and to do so it is vital to improve the demand of goods and services in the market.

One is the hypothesis that it is necessary to maintain the functioning expenses for the entrepreuners the lower that they can afford, in that one the idea is that the goverment must develope a very aggressive policy of promotion of creation or expansion of small and middle size companies. In that model looks to be more attractive to have low cost of work force than expensive one.

Other hypothesis is to promote a policy of stimulation of the employment, that is, to help the big corporations to hire more unemployed people, in that one of course you are thinking in the nationals and legal residents of the country as the primary source of work in the Laboral market.

The point is that when a country is severly attacked by recession, as is the present case in the USA, it is crucial to don't bid all to only one way to activate the economy, and check carefully not only the appearant benefit of a decission but also the risk that it is behind it.

My impression is that the so called illegals are now more employed by the informal economy, by very small entrepreuners than by big ones, so in the long term their expulsion of the country will not open new vacancies in the great corporations, but possibly will impact them indirectly due to the contraint in the demand of their goods in the market, laterly I will explain you that point too.

Now, for the mid size and mini or microentrepreuners is extremly difficult to hire with better salaries, for those businesses is not question of patriotism, but question of survival in a market, that you have pointed is now extremly competed thanks to the importation of many goods.

A casual observer could say that one way to do so, is to reduce the number of vacancies, that is, to hire with the same money that now is paid some number of illegals a smaller number of native workers.

Well that sounds interesting in appearance, from the point of view of the unemployed people, but from the point of view of the market it can mean a reduction of the demand of goods and services since all that mass of so called illegal workers and their families are comsuming a lot of what is currently sold, as for instance food, clothes, shoes, house items, etc etc.

A drastic reduction of the effective workers in the micro and mini entreprises would represent probably the collapse of medium size or even big size other companies that depend of their comsumption.

The point my friend is what is more effective to push America away of this crisis?

To try to open some number of very bad paid jobs or to try to boost the entrepreunal activity?

To make more Americans able to own their own businesses?

or to maintain an army of workers that are in general every day trying to win the battle of the unemployment?


Remember that Unemployment = lack of sources of jobs = lack of successful entreprises.

As I said in my previous replies, this is just a mere Hypothesis of how to move an economy in the very hard situation of the crisis, it is not a debate of legality versus illegality, after all I am sure everybody is wanted to legalize all this reality as soon as possible, in one or in other direction, either incorporated more people to the legality or to the contrary.


Of course you have explained another very different point of view, and I respect that, but I remain still dubious that after the massive deportation of illegals (that by the way are very well trained in many activities after years living here) America will gain so much, perhaps Canada or other destinations could profit a lot of that situation, since they need that qualified work force by now.

That is another interesting point of the discussion, that we are talking about qualified work force, and is something few analysts that are promotinig the deportation have carefully checked, in fact the public in general is observing them as a mass of parasits that live at our expense and that is not really true.

Other interesting ponit is what will be the impact of the repentine incorporation on such same tasks of some portion of the unemployed native people, I mean in the productivity of those economical sectors?, remember that many of those new workers would not be accostumed at all to that life or do not have any previous experience in those activities, since they are basically middle class people that now is just so disparate that are able to take any possible job?

it seems to me that many of the Illegal workers that are currently in America could move away so easy to our northern neighbor even improving their possibilities, after all in that country there is abundance of resident visas by now and with only four years of residence citizenships.

thanks for your attention, and of course we are here to listen more opinions.

The Angel of Lightness



[edit on 7/21/2010 by The angel of light]


You call them "so called illegals". What is hard to understand, that if you are from another country, and are in this country without a green card, a visa, a passport or any other documentation, that makes you illegal. There is no "so called" about it.

And as for your plan. Why is it up to this country to give them a job? Why not give your plan to the Mexican government, and let them work on it with their own citizens? And during the process, those that still want to come back here, can do it by the law. Why have any laws if you don`t believe people should follow them? As for the small buisness owner that has illegals? I`m sorry, but if it takes breaking laws to turn a profit, then you are not doing something right.

Let this country get it`s own problems in order, before taking on the burdens of other countries. We need to stop giving our jobs away to other countries. It`s bad enough, our companies move to other countries and leave many here without jobs(didn`t we already send many jobs down to Mexico?), and an economy that totally reeks, and has forced many small buisness owners to give up, putting many more people out of work, now we have people from other countries here illegally to take what few new jobs that do open up.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by FiatLux
 


Well FiatLux,

I think the adjective illegal depends of many aspects, one consideration is the one you mention that they are illegally living here, but many of them entered also with visas in their passports, possibly they remained after the expiration of them, also for the ones didn't enter with such visas, it is interesting to inspect how unbalanced is the migratory policies among certain countries, and with Mexico is certainly perhaps the critical case:

- If a Mexican or any Latin American wants to migrate to the USA he is under the Quota system, something that never happen for migrants of countries like India, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Mauritio and other very exotic countries.

- What is the origin of that visible discrimination in the assigment of visas, well the idea that we must promote diversity in the USA, that is, to make this country a sort of Microcosmos of the entire planet, the project sounds interesting but why that is so needed?

- why a person that is in Asia, living in a country that have nothing to do with the USA History have more right to migrate, even to get a resident visa through the greencard lotto, than a citizen of country that for instance gave one fourth of the land in which now is built America, as is the case of Mexico, or that suffered the drastic secession of its territorial integrity or suffered civil wars, coup de etats or even Dictatorships to favored the USA interests in the hemisphere, as was the case of Columbia, El salvador, Chile or Guatemala for instance?

- Those are some of the factors that didn't allow the LatinAmericans to think that the so called legality in migration is really fair, and unfortunately it is very well known that justice not always match with legality, although ideally must be in that way.

- From other side, there are more than 2 million Americans living in Mexico, and perhaps other similar amount living spread along the rest of Latin America.

These American residents in Latin countries didn't follow such an unfriendly quota policy to enter to those countries, many of them are living there very different lives than the onew they might be following here, better in all aspects.

Everybody knows that English native American teachers monopolize great part of the bilingual education in all the hemisphere and with a pension of the states you live in here with dignity but not with luxury, but in Mexico a USA citizen can even live as a very wealthy person and with very low taxes with that same income.

- By the other side many Latinamericans, from countries like Mexico that has free trade agreement with the states are suffering the consequences of the triangulation of products directly from China to their markets, that enter their borders just only because they are relabeled in the States.

- Those very cheap chinese-American products that everybody can buy in the Walmarts are practically sending to bankrupty thousands of well stablished companies that previously offered millions of good jobs in those countries.

- Now, with the so polemic use of agriculture subsides in the States, countries like Mexico, that in other times had enough jobs for their peasants are not in condition to offer even a minimum level of subsistence for them, and that is not the end of that sad Story, since with the genetically manipulated new meals, in many cases the dependency of the food market in those countries with respect to USA is assured for decades.

So, this is really a very complex issue, there are to many vessels communicating the two subcontinents that it is practically impossible to say which one is invading the yard of the other one, or causing more problems to the other, well if we decide to analize these topics with the zoom of the most negative attitude, don't you think so my friend?

thanks for your comments and interesting replies,

The Angel of Lightness



posted on May, 20 2013 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by The angel of light
 

The peace of God to all that belong to the Light,
Dear Readers,

2 years and 10 months after I started this thread, and in spite of all the terrible attacks that were directed against this idea, finaly my prediction is gradually taking form, and we are seeing that a migratory reform is in discussion in the Congress, and mis closer than ever to ge a reality, for the good of America.

Finally more and more people among entrepreuners, economists, investors have arrived to the conclusion that what I was saying in 2010 make sense: The only way that exist at present in America to open new business, that have the chance to be competitive with the terrible asian monsters, is by employing in some areas immigrants, this to assure the lowest possible operative expenses.

Many Americans that are looking exhaustively for the way to open small businesses have understood that the immigrants are not an obstacle but to the contrary a valuable resource that used in an intelligent way can give life to many ideas that now are absolutely stuck, due to the high prices of the labor work.

Pls read:

www.huffingtonpost.com...

www.foxnews.com...

www.cbsnews.com...

So beyond all the xenophobic reactions of the most radical anti immigrant sectors, the migratory reform is emerginig as the great solution to create new entreprises in this country. Only with immigrants laboring, many Americans will have the real chance to be small entrepreuners, and in that way to escape from the unemployment.

Thanks for your attention,

The Angel of Lightness .



posted on Nov, 21 2014 @ 10:57 AM
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a reply to: The angel of light

The Peace of God to all that belong to the Light,
Dear Readers,

Yesterday November 20th 2014 at 8pm President Barack Obama through an executive action made reality the most important migratory reform since the time of President Ronald Reagan, shielding of deportation risk to about 5 million of illegal immigrants to this country.

This so history Presidential decision , in spite of all the criticism and skepticism of many that believed this was going to be my failed Prophecy, turned in to full achievement what I foresaw since the year 2010, showing that my forecasts are not a toss of coin in the air, but actual glances of what the future is keeping for us.


Here the news:

www.cnn.com...

CNN has described the Obama migratory Action as the most sweeping overhaul of the migratory system in decades, by the way.

Here other media reporting the same transcendental announcement:

abcnews.go.com...

www.cbsnews.com...

I never predicted that it was going to be easy or that might not cause a huge confrontation in between the congress or the President, what I predicted is that it was going to occur, and that is what we have now, Obama has acted defying all the opposition of the Republican party, making reality a change that many believed it was impossible to see, when I opened this thread in 2010.

Thanks for your attention, and especially thanks to the devoted readers that didn't lose their confidence in my accuracy as a seer with this so complex and controversial Prophecy.

sincerely,

The Angel of Lightness



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