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Originally posted by sm0k3
Hate to burst your bubble there, but where does that leave the millions of workers aged 16-25? most of us get the short end of the stick as far as jobs go as it is, how will this help us?!
Originally posted by The angel of light
This point is that in the middle of this deep economical crisis there are, however, other developed countries, that are promoting migration like Canada, New zealand or Australia, and that look to think that it is not really bad in this times, but even benefitial to be able to overcome the crisis.
Canada, New Zealand and Australia are treating the immigrants as a source of work force, investment but also as source of professional skills in areas in which they have that need.
So are they correct or wrong in their appreciation of the migration factor?
There is something that is unique of the migrants in all the epochs and countries, that is, that they want to do what ever job somebody offer them, even the ones that usually are rejeted by the rest of the population.
In good times this is not really significant, since there are abundance of any kind of jobs, but it seems that in times of crisis, when the good jobs are very rare, it is common that the entrepreuners that are trying to survive in the market find that they are only able to hire migrants, and this happens even in countries in which they are not in illegal status as it happens in many cases in America in our days.
As it was stated in the opening of this thread, the possibility that the migration reform be approved would not means necesarily that these migrants will displace the citizens of the country, but that they could be hired by them as a cheap way to continue moving small or medium size businesses under the administration of the natives.
I am wondering if Perhaps, somebody in some where in some time in the not so far future in the world of politics will promote the idea of a packet of financial aid from the government for small companies, that look to be the ones that can move with less expenses in this so complicate recession.
One thing is sure, the students of business careers in many Universities might be in trouble to think what they are going to do if they graduate before this recession ends, It is logical to think that many new professionals, specially the young ones would prefer to try to impulse a microentreprises than to remain unemployed for years.
The worst point of this crisis is that there are millions looking for jobs and so it seems plausible to support the idea to help the people to be selfemployed.
Originally posted by The angel of light
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread590923/pg1#pid9263492]post by FiatLux
What I am perceiving here is that there are two models of hypothesis of solution of the high rate employment in the country; the One I am trying to explore deeply, to legalize the so called illegal immigrants, and the one you propose to expulse them, but it is good to dont forget that in the long term what is really important is to stop this recession, and to do so it is vital to improve the demand of goods and services in the market.
One is the hypothesis that it is necessary to maintain the functioning expenses for the entrepreuners the lower that they can afford, in that one the idea is that the goverment must develope a very aggressive policy of promotion of creation or expansion of small and middle size companies. In that model looks to be more attractive to have low cost of work force than expensive one.
Other hypothesis is to promote a policy of stimulation of the employment, that is, to help the big corporations to hire more unemployed people, in that one of course you are thinking in the nationals and legal residents of the country as the primary source of work in the Laboral market.
The point is that when a country is severly attacked by recession, as is the present case in the USA, it is crucial to don't bid all to only one way to activate the economy, and check carefully not only the appearant benefit of a decission but also the risk that it is behind it.
My impression is that the so called illegals are now more employed by the informal economy, by very small entrepreuners than by big ones, so in the long term their expulsion of the country will not open new vacancies in the great corporations, but possibly will impact them indirectly due to the contraint in the demand of their goods in the market, laterly I will explain you that point too.
Now, for the mid size and mini or microentrepreuners is extremly difficult to hire with better salaries, for those businesses is not question of patriotism, but question of survival in a market, that you have pointed is now extremly competed thanks to the importation of many goods.
A casual observer could say that one way to do so, is to reduce the number of vacancies, that is, to hire with the same money that now is paid some number of illegals a smaller number of native workers.
Well that sounds interesting in appearance, from the point of view of the unemployed people, but from the point of view of the market it can mean a reduction of the demand of goods and services since all that mass of so called illegal workers and their families are comsuming a lot of what is currently sold, as for instance food, clothes, shoes, house items, etc etc.
A drastic reduction of the effective workers in the micro and mini entreprises would represent probably the collapse of medium size or even big size other companies that depend of their comsumption.
The point my friend is what is more effective to push America away of this crisis?
To try to open some number of very bad paid jobs or to try to boost the entrepreunal activity?
To make more Americans able to own their own businesses?
or to maintain an army of workers that are in general every day trying to win the battle of the unemployment?
Remember that Unemployment = lack of sources of jobs = lack of successful entreprises.
As I said in my previous replies, this is just a mere Hypothesis of how to move an economy in the very hard situation of the crisis, it is not a debate of legality versus illegality, after all I am sure everybody is wanted to legalize all this reality as soon as possible, in one or in other direction, either incorporated more people to the legality or to the contrary.
Of course you have explained another very different point of view, and I respect that, but I remain still dubious that after the massive deportation of illegals (that by the way are very well trained in many activities after years living here) America will gain so much, perhaps Canada or other destinations could profit a lot of that situation, since they need that qualified work force by now.
That is another interesting point of the discussion, that we are talking about qualified work force, and is something few analysts that are promotinig the deportation have carefully checked, in fact the public in general is observing them as a mass of parasits that live at our expense and that is not really true.
Other interesting ponit is what will be the impact of the repentine incorporation on such same tasks of some portion of the unemployed native people, I mean in the productivity of those economical sectors?, remember that many of those new workers would not be accostumed at all to that life or do not have any previous experience in those activities, since they are basically middle class people that now is just so disparate that are able to take any possible job?
it seems to me that many of the Illegal workers that are currently in America could move away so easy to our northern neighbor even improving their possibilities, after all in that country there is abundance of resident visas by now and with only four years of residence citizenships.
thanks for your attention, and of course we are here to listen more opinions.
The Angel of Lightness
[edit on 7/21/2010 by The angel of light]