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Some Thoughts on "Patriotism" Written on July 4

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posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 10:58 AM
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Some Thoughts on "Patriotism" Written on July 4


www.globalresearch.ca

Most important thought: I'm sick and tired of this thing called "patriotism".

The Japanese pilots who bombed Pearl Harbor were being patriotic. The German people who supported Hitler and his conquests were being patriotic, fighting for the Fatherland. All the Latin American military dictators who overthrew democratically-elected governments and routinely tortured people were being patriotic — saving their beloved country from "communism".
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:




posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 10:58 AM
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As a new ATS member I begin to get a bit sick and tired to only hear in most posts about how "great America is..."

I found this article in my beloved News & Information-Website, www.globalresearch.ca...

It seems very fitting and pretty much to the point of what the Rest of the World has as opinion for the USA.

It is nice to hear plenty of different opinions, but only dwelling in "prophecies" and "The war starts next week..." discussions becomes a bit boring.

That we face local as well global challenges of unbelievable proportions is obvious. However to have those challenges also means that we should have some real discussions as to how to implement solutions, be they local, provincial, state, national or on global scale.

Fear mongering and blaming all on "predictions and UFO's" is not the answer IMHO.

Just last night I read the thread on Castro "Reflections" and was shocked at the "Anti Castro" rhetoric by a substantial number of posters. It appears that the people of the USA are so self centered that they do not even want to take a 2nd look at some other people and countries how they solve their problem. Maybe taking a look at the health care system of Cuba and their most important "Export" - namely doctors to developing countries would be a start?

Or for example to ask the question as to why is it that the USA "Needs" 800+ Military Bases around the globe? Usually a country's military is to defend the "Borders" of the very same country, so that no invasion can happen.

For starters, read the article and think ....

www.globalresearch.ca
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 11:22 AM
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Just curious, by chance, do you live in the states? I ask, because now adays, I see people on here putting the states down, even though they live there.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by FiatLux]



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

This article misses the point of what it means to be a patriot. Patriotism isn't what you do for your government it is what you do for your people and country. It is protecting the principles which forged our nation today.

Maybe this person should expand his view of what patriotism actually means.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by FiatLux
 


No I am from Europe live in Canada for close to 30 years now. I have worked quite for some time in the States in my capacity as a commercial pilot.

I do not put the States "down" just for the fun of "USA-Bashing". I simply see in them a "New Rome". And even as a kid in class I never saw anything "Great" in the "Great Roman Empire".



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 11:43 AM
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It's not popular to look at your country logically and objectively and heaven forbid criticize it in certain circles. You get called unpatriotic and usually get told to leave if you don't like it. I think these people might be confusing patriotism with jingoism. In addition, they stop any real debate or discussion with their brand of labeling and vilifying.

To me, it's the utmost of patriotism to see things as they are and not as you wish them to be and to try to improve your country because you care about its people and yes even world opinion. Vigilance and speaking out takes guts. Doing it properly without responding to the jingoists in kind is even harder. It's not always the easy thing to do, but it's the right thing to do.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that NO nation with troubles at home should practice interventionalist foreign policies, should be out colonizing or even "helping" any other country. It is not theirs to judge others when they have not taken a good hard look at themselves.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by ~Lucidity]



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


I could not have said it better. This is practically the reason why I posted this thread. I bitch about Canada as much as I bitch about the USA. In the next few days I will post my links to my blog. I am just working on some articles as we speak. My philosophy as well understanding how humans should interact are quite different from the common "Nation & State" thinking.



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by Guenter

... I do not put the States "down" just for the fun of "USA-Bashing". I simply see in them a "New Rome". And even as a kid in class I never saw anything "Great" in the "Great Roman Empire".


I respectfully ask that you consider one additional facet of that perception: Please take into account that what you see and hear of the US is usually brought to you by people who only 'claim' to represent the US, or companies that have a motive to make the claims they do. Their behavior is usually far from patriotic if you look closely enough.

For me, patriotism is about the 'us' in U.S. For others it is a catch phrase, a buzz word, or an attention getter to 'sell' something to their audiences (or victims - depending upon your perspective).

The "New Rome" model is not really American, it is global. The patriarchs of old have reinvented themselves into robber barons, career politicians, and glamorous celebrity moguls, to ensure their 'station' is not disturbed and that they can always rely on the complacent acceptance of those who live by the adage "this is the way it has always been, and it will never change' or 'you must be a superior person to be in charge.' Patriotism becomes a lame disguise to conceal what is truly behind the veil.

It may go far to explain why the more outspoken robber barons are so hell bent on eliminating the meme of 'national sovereignty' and 'human' rights. Hence the campaign on globalization and corporate citizenship.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by Maxmars]



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by Maxmars

I respectfully ask that you consider one additional facet of that perception: Please take into account that what you see and hear of the US is usually brought to you by people who only 'claim' to represent the US, or companies that have a motive to make the claims they do. Their behavior is usually far from patriotic if you look closely enough.

For me, patriotism is about the 'us' in U.S. For others it is a catch phrase, a buzz word, or an attention getter to 'sell' something to their audiences (or victims - depending upon your perspective).


[edit on 6-7-2010 by Maxmars]


In many political speeches from your president and others in the main stream media - which unfortunately some 90% of voters get their INFO from, I always hear the term: "Protecting American interests Abroad..."
I have already as a HS student claimed that the "interests of a nation" stop at the very line in the sand of its international borders. Past that line any military presence is an "attack". So please tell me then what are your troops doing in some 800+ bases around the globe? Why are missiles based now in Poland? Why do you need bases in Columbia? Why are you still present in Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Germany, Italy, former Yugoslavia etc. ?



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by Guenter

Originally posted by Maxmars

I respectfully ask that you consider one additional facet of that perception: Please take into account that what you see and hear of the US is usually brought to you by people who only 'claim' to represent the US, or companies that have a motive to make the claims they do. Their behavior is usually far from patriotic if you look closely enough.

For me, patriotism is about the 'us' in U.S. For others it is a catch phrase, a buzz word, or an attention getter to 'sell' something to their audiences (or victims - depending upon your perspective).


[edit on 6-7-2010 by Maxmars]


In many political speeches from your president and others in the main stream media - which unfortunately some 90% of voters get their INFO from, I always hear the term: "Protecting American interests Abroad..."
I have already as a HS student claimed that the "interests of a nation" stop at the very line in the sand of its international borders. Past that line any military presence is an "attack". So please tell me then what are your troops doing in some 800+ bases around the globe? Why are missiles based now in Poland? Why do you need bases in Columbia? Why are you still present in Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Germany, Italy, former Yugoslavia etc. ?


Ask them why they sent troops to Germany in WW2, or even Korea. Those were "over the line", so that makes it an attack, right? When another country calls on their help like that, would it be better if they just set it out? They can if it happens again, and if it bothers people that much.



[edit on 6-7-2010 by FiatLux]



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 11:04 PM
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Here would be my thought on patriotism in America.

No; Not the soldiers that did everything they could to shoot at the Japanese as they bombed pearl harbors, or Fire Fighters (general public safety) that helped get people out of the TWC and then remained after to excavate and rescue the trapped survivors..

But rather the word. It's just a word used to unite people under a feel good; often propaganda banner. Look at Bill O'Reilly, and his pin heads and patriots.. half those time I ask "What makes them a pinhead or a patriot? I see nothing other than an opinion. A bad one."

Or Sean Hannity with his GREAT AMERICAN panel.. Glen Beck with his fake tears, semi-believable conspiracy theories about the "evil" socialists (I have friends in socialist countries, they are good people!)..

I'm sorry to use mainly fox news refferences, but it's all I can imagine at the moment since they do use a false sense of patriotism to buy viewership in my opinion.

But Im sure MSNBC and CNN does it too.

Patriotism is just a propaganda tool in my opinion, usually no matter who uses it. How many people on the board claim to be "real patriots"?

A lot of people, and few agree with eachother.



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by Miraj
Here would be my thought on patriotism in America.

No; Not the soldiers that did everything they could to shoot at the Japanese as they bombed pearl harbors, or Fire Fighters (general public safety) that helped get people out of the TWC and then remained after to excavate and rescue the trapped survivors..

But rather the word. It's just a word used to unite people under a feel good; often propaganda banner. Look at Bill O'Reilly, and his pin heads and patriots.. half those time I ask "What makes them a pinhead or a patriot? I see nothing other than an opinion. A bad one."

Or Sean Hannity with his GREAT AMERICAN panel.. Glen Beck with his fake tears, semi-believable conspiracy theories about the "evil" socialists (I have friends in socialist countries, they are good people!)..

I'm sorry to use mainly fox news refferences, but it's all I can imagine at the moment since they do use a false sense of patriotism to buy viewership in my opinion.

But Im sure MSNBC and CNN does it too.

Patriotism is just a propaganda tool in my opinion, usually no matter who uses it. How many people on the board claim to be "real patriots"?

A lot of people, and few agree with eachother.


Well here is how the dictionary defines it.

Main Entry: pa·tri·ot
Pronunciation: \ˈpā-trē-ət, -ˌät, chiefly British ˈpa-trē-ət\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French patriote compatriot, from Late Latin patriota, from Greek patriōtēs, from patria lineage, from patr-, patēr father
Date: 1605
: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests


And also patriotism.

Main Entry: pa·tri·ot·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈpā-trē-ə-ˌti-zəm, chiefly British ˈpa-\
Function: noun
Date: circa 1726
: love for or devotion to one's country


Does that mean, by your definition of patriotism, that they are not suppose to love their country? Because it may just be a ploy? Maybe they don`t need a ploy to love their country.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 12:40 AM
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reply to post by Guenter
 


if i had to hazzard a guess as to why we have these bases(not trying to ruffle any ones feathers) is to make it so that 1 if a nation gets angry with us they will problay attack those bases first as there more likely then not closer then the shores of american soil and 2.we have for a VERY long time enjoyed being for lack of a better term far away from most armed conflicts point of origin and like the idea of being able to counter any possible threat(real or made up by our governments)from reaching our shores not saying its right or wrong just trying to offer an opinion



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by FiatLux
 


Hardly what I mean. I just think patriotism is used as a propaganda tool.

And that it's rubbed off on a certain political spectrum who thinks that its a good thing..



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 02:19 AM
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reply to post by Guenter
 


Patriotism to the constitution is a helluva lot better than patriotism to Hitler.

Don't fool yourself.

The whole world is in a steaming pile of crap. The US is the least filthy, and therefor the best.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 04:43 AM
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Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by FiatLux
 


Hardly what I mean. I just think patriotism is used as a propaganda tool.

And that it's rubbed off on a certain political spectrum who thinks that its a good thing..


I love my country, and it didnt come from any political spectrum. I would much rather love my country, than hate it. Why hate the country you live in? The country doesn`t do anything to hurt you. It`s the people, not the country that does the hurting.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by FiatLux

Ask them why they sent troops to Germany in WW2, or even Korea. Those were "over the line", so that makes it an attack, right? When another country calls on their help like that, would it be better if they just set it out? They can if it happens again, and if it bothers people that much.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by FiatLux]


My take on this sending troops to Germany in WW2, Korea and other places has one simple answer: MONEY for the Military Industrial complex. If someone somewhere wouldn't have had made one hell of a profit from it, Hitler's guys still would be happily living and ruling. The US Military does not defend a country as per say the actual USA land mass, but the interests of a few Corporations.
And this is the reason when the ROW begins shaking their heads seeing Americans waving their flags and be happy about "what a great country..." they are.



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Guenter
 


The whole world is in a steaming pile of crap. The US is the least filthy, and therefor the best.


I wonder who got the ROW into this crap? Couldn't be those big corporations, now could it?



posted on Jul, 7 2010 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by Guenter

Originally posted by FiatLux

Ask them why they sent troops to Germany in WW2, or even Korea. Those were "over the line", so that makes it an attack, right? When another country calls on their help like that, would it be better if they just set it out? They can if it happens again, and if it bothers people that much.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by FiatLux]


My take on this sending troops to Germany in WW2, Korea and other places has one simple answer: MONEY for the Military Industrial complex. If someone somewhere wouldn't have had made one hell of a profit from it, Hitler's guys still would be happily living and ruling. The US Military does not defend a country as per say the actual USA land mass, but the interests of a few Corporations.
And this is the reason when the ROW begins shaking their heads seeing Americans waving their flags and be happy about "what a great country..." they are.


Ok then, if that is the case, was it just America that fought over there? No, they weren`t. When they say it`s a great country, their not talking about the government, or a corporation, but the people themselves. Any war, no matter were it`s fought, and by who it`s fought, is fought for profite. Would it be better that there was no being happy about anything in this world? People can find happiness in just about anything, be it a country, a flag, a new born baby, or even the twelve eyed horses back side. What does it matter, and how does it matter? With the very few things left in this world to be happy about, why refuse them happiness of any kind? The world is in sad enough shape the way it is, and it`s only going to get worse, so why add to it?



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