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The Bible and Slavery - Condoned?

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posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 10:53 PM
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I know we don't need anymore damn Bible quotes on here, but I thought I would take a different approach to them.

I am not a Bible beater... I do not identify with any religion. I am agnostic.

I found this little gem in my Bible, and it seems to condone slavery.


It is from Leviticus, part of the "Sermon on the Mount," or Moses' conversation with God after he led the Jews out of Egypt.


Leviticus 25:44-46

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you buy them from among the neighboring nations. You may also buy them from among the aliens that reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves you may own as chatels, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, making them perpetual slaves."


What do you all think of it?




posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 11:00 PM
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I look forward to the humor of reading the usual "bible twisting" posts that will come in defense of that man-made, heaping pile of garbage called the bible which is jammed packed with contradictions and absurdities that is even MUCH worst then this verse which is AWFUL enough.



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 11:05 PM
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Has anyone know there are cycles on ATS, about religion?
It stays quiet for awhile, not that many debates. Then all of a sudden 2 threads pop up then 3 then 4 then eventualy 10



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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It's verses like these that will never allow me to be become part of these religions.



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 11:32 PM
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The Original Ten Commandments are full of references to slavery, and how to treat your slaves. They also make reference to strict laws and very harsh punishments, excessive taxation, and war as a way of life.

All in all it's a State creating a system of governence based on those forms of commerce, expansion, tyranny, taxation and slavery.

How anyone thought that was a being of love and light talking and saying those things is just bizarre if you ask me!




posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by SubPop79
 


But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.-Heb8.6

set free from sin and have become slaves to God-Rom6.22(OMG)

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God-Rom3

The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."-Gal5.14(OMG)

I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."-Luke7.28

He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.-Eph2.17(mommy... mommy)



posted on Jul, 5 2010 @ 11:53 PM
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Thread Sub-Topic

Same Verse - Different Translation

Leviticus 25:44-46 (Young's Literal Translation)

44`And thy man-servant and thy handmaid whom thou hast [are] of the nations who [are] round about you; of them ye buy man-servant and handmaid,

45and also of the sons of the settlers who are sojourning with you, of them ye buy, and of their families who [are] with you, which they have begotten in your land, and they have been to you for a possession;

46and ye have taken them for inheritance to your sons after you, to occupy [for] a possession; to the age ye lay service upon them, but upon your brethren, the sons of Israel, one with another, thou dost not rule over him with rigour.

Point: How can you trust a Religious text when it's translations are done with those of agendas pertaining to that religion, in such a way that makes each copy unrecognizable from each other even though it is supposed to be the same message and book?


[edit on 5-7-2010 by SubPop79]



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 12:19 AM
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IMO the old testament does condone slavery. It's sets rules about how to treat your slaves. Some justify this with the fact the bible says if you find a runaway slave you don't return him to his owner. Or that if a slave owner killed one of his slaves in punishment that he would be put to death.

Should they of known this was wrong? Or did they know this was wrong. I think that is answered in the part that says they can not have other hebrews for slaves. That Hebrews could be bond servants but not slaves.

It was also not voluntary slavery for many of the slaves were captives of wars the Hebrews had with neighbors.

Irony is Moses lead them out of Egypt because they were slaves. Apparently they didn't care for being slaves but they had no qualms about having other humans as their slaves.

Which is one of the reasons I believe the old testament was about custodial gods not the true God which Jesus speaks about in the new testament.

Another point is name changes. Changing names was also a sign of new ownership over someone. Ever notice Abram and Sari had their names changed in the bible. Also Jacob had his name changed to Israel.



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 01:10 AM
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You have to remember to read the verses in the context of the time they were written. It was one to two thousand BC. Slavery was the norm. You were the rich landowner or farmer or you were one of the slaves. Everybody else was a minority at the time.

And slavery really wasn't the chains and whips type of forced slavery aka the 1800's.
It was more of a group effort of putting food on the table and doing the work that needed to be done on a large farm. It was closer to serfdom. He gets you started on a acreage and in return he gets a percentage of the produce.

It was just the system back then.



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 01:22 AM
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yea christians are under the new testament, leviticus laws do not pertain to us, and especially gentiles, since in context the leviticus laws were for jews.

in the old testament gentiles were compared with dogs anyhow.

If you want to look at laws pertaining to christians, read book of romans, it reiterates the 10 commandments, but removes all old testament laws since as the book of romans explains we are under a new covenant.

but yea only reason to argue old testament laws would be with a jew since they do not believe in the new testament and jews/muslims still follow old testament to some extent. Hell most sharia law comes from leviticus. And the leviticus laws were not meant for gentile at the time of the old testament.

Check Romans for your questions on christian laws. And before someone says "but old testament" Read my previous statement, 10 commandments are reiterated in Romans



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 01:54 AM
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Personally i have always thought this pertained to slavery and was considered very much the normal way of doing things in the world back then. Yep correck the jews didnt care much for being slaves but this was mostly because of the fact that they were treated so poorly.

Exodus 1:14, And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage, in mortar, and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field: all their service, wherein they made them serve, was with rigor.

The laws created for the jews by god according to the bible were meant not to put a stop to slavery because it was essential to the way of life but rather to show how to treat those who were your servants.

This still never sits well with me but it does show that even religious law is the same as regular laws because after a time certain laws no longer apply because of changes that have occured in society. Yet they are still on the books so to speak.



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 02:38 AM
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Let me suggest an analogy.

In Matthew ch 19, Jesus insists that God objects to divorce (which, in a society where unattached women have no good way of supporting themselves, was an act of cruelty to women).
The Pharisees object that permission to divorce is in the Law of Moses.
Jesus replies that the permission was only put there "for your hardness of heart". In other words, the men were so determined to have their way on this point that it was not practically possible to abolish it. So, for the time being, Moses contented himself with accepting it and regulating it.
But the acceptance of divorce, according to Jesus, was not part of God's real will on the matter.

I would say that slavery is in the Old Testament for very similar reasons.
The Israelites took slavery for granted because everybody else in the ancient world was doing it. It could not be abolished immediately because of their "hardness of heart". So it was regulated.
But slavery was not part of God's real will on the matter, as the people who abolished slavery understood.



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 04:40 AM
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Originally posted by ntech
You have to remember to read the verses in the context of the time they were written. It was one to two thousand BC. Slavery was the norm. You were the rich landowner or farmer or you were one of the slaves. Everybody else was a minority at the time.


I am glad i decided to read further down LOL and saw the response I would have posted.

Yeah slavery was condoned in those days. However, we still have slavery today - what are we doing about it? Because it isn't in a book it is ok?

Let's focus on what is happening in the world today and focus energy on that rather than on old news huh...

There are still "slaves" suffering. Some of them children and i can tell you that they are probably being treated as badly if not worse!!

[edit on 6/7/2010 by shearder]



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 04:47 AM
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What's wrong with slavery?

I'm just trying to follow the bible like a good, slave owning christian. Our founding fathers owned slaves, too.



posted on Jul, 6 2010 @ 04:58 AM
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It’s all about perspective... Some people will read that one line and Scream "evil religion"

Others will read the whole book and therefore put that one line (and others like it) into perspective.




[edit on 6-7-2010 by Muckster]



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