What should be done about the violence at our borders? Please vote.

reply to post by EYEOFEAGLE

If you think this is a good idea, let me know. An idea that would put people on the border and and force the action of law enforcement to patrol the area just to make sure the peace is maintained.

It is a good idea in theory. However, my concern is that the government would NOT patrol the area, and in fact, would HOPE that those peaceful Americans there would be hurt or killed. Then they and the lame stream media could claim that "those tea party nuts" got what they deserved. I truly mean that. The politicians look upon people who want this mess ended, as an enemy of their attempt to profit from the illegal alien situation.
Take, for instance the wealth of Boxer, Pelosi and Feingstein, gained from the hiring of illegal immigrants as workers"

As Peter Schweizer notes in his best-selling expose of liberal hypocrisy, “Do As I Say (Not As I Do),” part of the fortune of this defender of the working man is a Napa Valley vineyard worth $25 million that she owns with her husband. The vineyard produces expensive grapes for high-end wines. Napa grapes bring up to $4,000 a ton compared with $300 a ton for, say, San Joaquin grapes.

But Pelosi, winner of the 2003 Cesar Chavez award from the United Farm Workers, hires only nonunion workers and sells these grapes to nonunion wineries. [....]

Which makes Pelosi’s steadfast opposition to any attempts to enhance border security and stem the flow of illegal immigration into the U.S. all the more interesting since she seems to be among those rich employers who financially benefit from a steady supply of cheap foreign labor. [....]

Nor has Pelosi been a fan of employer sanctions against the hiring of illegal aliens. In 2003, she accused immigration officers of conducting “terrorizing raids” on Wal-Mart stores that led to the arrest of more than 300 illegal aliens.

Loraine Stewart, a farmworker advocate with Napa Valley Community Housing, in a 2004 San Francisco Chronicle article estimated that half of the migrant labor force in the valley consisted of undocumented workers, without whom “not one bottle of wine would get made here.

hotair.com...

reply to post by sdcigarpig

Your suggestions make too much sense. They will never happen.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by CREAM

 

As for immigration, I dont buy into the idea that I deserve to live here more than other people, so I think they just need to make it easier for people to LEGALLY immigrate, if your a legal immigrant you pay taxes and what not, sounds fair to me.

Actually, becoming a LEGAL immigrant has rules in place that are necessary. For instance, if you are bringing someone into your family from another country, you must SHOW that they will not become a burden financially on the government. In addition, they must provide evidence of their past, criminal checks are done, etc. These rules are in place to prevent what unfortunately is happening now because of illegal immigration. If you merely allow people in, in an uncontrolled and unchecked way, chaos ensues. The chaos that we see now is a result of these checks and balances being bypassed.

Not really, our borders used to be open. Keep in mind that most americans are a burden on the government financially, even tax payers, tax receipts are not anywhere close to what the government is spending, this means the government should spend less, NOT that we should hold new immigrants to standards we dont even hold ourselves to.

reply to post by CREAM

Not really, our borders used to be open.

Yes, they were. HOWEVER, at that time in our history, we didn't have all of the welfare and social programs that we have now. People HAD TO support themselves, or they would starve. Today, however, they can just be lazy and live off the work of others. Thus, either get rid of the social programs or close the borders. You CANNOT have both.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus

Yes, they were. HOWEVER, at that time in our history, we didn't have all of the welfare and social programs that we have now. People HAD TO support themselves, or they would starve. Today, however, they can just be lazy and live off the work of others. Thus, either get rid of the social programs or close the borders. You CANNOT have both.

Sir please.

Eliminate social welfare programs?

People would be dying in the streets. Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria.

The nation would devolve in to a post-apocalyptic waste land where leather clad biker gangs raped and pillaged the ignorant masses for scraps of food and fuel.

Men would drive homemade armored vehicles with machine guns as they dueled each other for access to clean drinking water, because the earth as we know it would turn into a desert waste land.

I personally can't wipe my own butt without calling a government hotline that provides me step-by-step instructions along with subsidized toilet paper.




[edit on 6-7-2010 by mnemeth1]

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Thanks for posting this, it's getting bad down there, and the White House does not care, that much is painfully obvious. Just this morning I heard Eric Holder saying he was filing suit....
Justice Department Files Suit Against Arizona Immigration Law

I don't see how this could be, because the Arizona law is the Federal law, Arizona is just enforcing the Federal law. Holder is filing suit against his own laws! What an idiot. As a matter of FACT, let me make it clear...our leaders are idiots, concerned only with lining their own pockets. They are all, almost to a man, Attorneys at Law....

(Original)
Amendment XIII
If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive, or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them.

and...

The Missing 13th Amendment
"TITLES OF NOBILITY" AND "HONOR"

In the winter of 1983, archival research expert David Dodge, and former Baltimore police investigator Tom Dunn, were searching for evidence of government corruption in public records stored in the Belfast Library on the coast of Maine. By chance, they discovered the library's oldest authentic copy of the Constitution of the United States (printed in 1825). Both men were stunned to see this document included a 13th Amendment that no longer appears on current copies of the Constitution. Moreover, after studying the Amendment's language and historical context, they realized the principle intent of this "missing" 13th Amendment was to prohibit lawyers from serving in government.

So began a seven-year, nationwide search for the truth surrounding the most bizarre Constitutional puzzle in American history -- the unlawful removal of a ratified Amendment from the Constitution of the United States. Since 1983, Dodge and Dunn have uncovered additional copies of the Constitution with the "missing" 13th Amendment printed in at least eighteen separate publications by ten different states and territories over four decades from 1822 to 1860.

In June of this year, Dodge uncovered the evidence that this missing 13th Amendment had indeed been lawfully ratified by the state of Virginia and was therefore an authentic Amendment to the American Constitution. If the evidence is correct and no logical errors have been made, a 13th Amendment restricting lawyers from serving in government was ratified in 1819 and removed from our Constitution during the tumult of the Civil War.

Since the Amendment was never lawfully repealed, it is still the Law today. The implications are enormous.

source

Further...
The History and Ratification of the Original 13th amendment

Let's take this at plain face value. No lawyers in Public Office. there, that wasn't hard, was it. now, make it so. Demand it.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

What do YOU think should be done?

Deploy the national guard and call up militia. Notify Mexico that in 30 days deadly force will be used to secure the border. Signs will be placed every 50' on the border warning that deadly force will be used if they proceed.

Should Texas threaten to secede from the US?

Yes as well as others!

Should Obama be impeached for failure to protect our borders?

Absolutly, and for other crimes as well.

Should we bring out troops home, and place them on the border, with orders to shoot?

The troops should come home but this is really a job for national guard and Militia.

Or, do you have any other ideas?

Well not that I would discuss on here...

Legalize Marijuana first, it wont stop the coke mules but it'll stop SOME of the drug cartels as there will be no money to make.

Secure the borders, ramp them up with thousands of national guard troops and give them the OK to shoot anyone who is either possession of weapons, drugs, or attempts to cross the border.......intimidation will help, if they know we will kill them it'll once again slow down some of those trying to enter

Land Mines. Demand Mexico allow us to plant mines anywhere we want within 1 mile of our border, post signs, make Mexico get the news out, that if they do attempt to come within this area, they face certain death.

Not the most friendly approach but something must be done

[edit on 6-7-2010 by Hulk Hogan]

Legalize and tax marajuana. Stop spending money putting our children in prison. Stop supporting the drug cartels. If marajuana is legal, most people would not use other drugs. Why go to prison for a rock of coc aine when you can smoke a joint and relax on your front porch. We could possibly pay off some of the national debt and possibly save the U.S. dollar. We are paying for rehab anyway use the taxes collected to pay for it. Talk about a CASH crop, what a break for the American farmers. The United States is about to crash economically. We could save ourselves from ruin. It's not like everyone who wants to smoke pot isn't already doing it. Quit sending our money to criminals and support the USA. Trust me, if they cannot sell their drugs the borders will be safer.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by MeganMcclees]

Originally posted by Tholidor
How about this (taken from recent news articles):

First we carpet bomb the Mexican border towns (theirs, not ours). Toss in some white phospherous for good measure - surely we must have learned SOMETHING from the Israelis. All those bombs and inhumane weapons that we currently send to the Kosher Nostra could be put to use right here.

THEN we build a wall (maybe some Israeli construction outfits could be contracted - after all they know how to build a wall!).

Then, every time a round comes north over the border, we can cry "VICTIM" and establish a "security zone" about, say, 25 miles wide on the Mexican side, plant mines and above all - shoot anything that moves on the northern boarder of the exclusion zone.

Did I leave anything out? Oh yeah! We bulldoze all the houses in the new exclusion zone and build American settlements to insure our safety and security! Let's call it the "South Bank"! What a brilliant idea, if I do say so myself!!!

/heavy sarcasm off

[edit on 5-7-2010 by Tholidor]

That is such an accurate and relevant comparison!
/heavy sarcasm off

Keep your hatred of Israel out of this thread and stick to the topic.

1. Bring our troops home and put them on the border. Why we have troops stationed all over the world is beyond me. If we really want to reach out and touch someone we can - we don't need to be spread all over the place, we need them here at home.

2. End the prohibition on cannabis. The war on drugs has failed. We know you cannot legislate morality and making it illegal just funnels BILLIONS to the cartels and smugglers by driving the value up.

3. Quit pandering to the apologist and "victims" that are playing the race card at every turn and actually enforce our immigration laws without all this political correctness. Punish the people that employ these illegals or aid them in any way.

Shoot to kill. Or build a nice block of ICE prison cells every 5 miles across the entire border. Sorry, but I'm pretty fed up. Actually, I'm all for deporting them all back to where they came from. Anchor babies and all. We'll deal with the "dire consequences." They can always try again the right way.

reply to post by autowrench

I don't see how this could be, because the Arizona law is the Federal law, Arizona is just enforcing the Federal law.

You're right. Maybe someone should tell Holder that he is essentially suing himself. Then again, doing that would mean he would have to be SMART enough to understand what you're telling him, and I don't think you need all your fingers to display his IQ. He's another dumb Chicago-style politician who merely takes orders from his "Masser".

reply to post by ~Lucidity

Shoot to kill. Or build a nice block of ICE prison cells every 5 miles across the entire border. Sorry, but I'm pretty fed up. Actually, I'm all for deporting them all back to where they came from. Anchor babies and all. We'll deal with the "dire consequences.

I'm fed up also. Our Founding Fathers are probably turning over in their graves over this. What other nation on Earth allows foreign invaders to cross their border, steal jobs, collect welfare, free medical, and free education, and then allows them to demonstrate on the streets asking for "more rights"? What leader, other than Obama, then apologizes to them and every other criminal enterprise, and pushes to give them our country outright? It is outright disgusting!

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


What other leader? Well, I am not falling into the partisan labeling trap, but a few come to mind...Reagan, Bush-41, Clinton, Bush-43...

reply to post by mnemeth1

People would be dying in the streets. Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria.

The nation would devolve in to a post-apocalyptic waste land where leather clad biker gangs raped and pillaged the ignorant masses for scraps of food and fuel.

Men would drive homemade armored vehicles with machine guns as they dueled each other for access to clean drinking water, because the earth as we know it would turn into a desert waste land.

I personally can't wipe my own butt without calling a government hotline that provides me step-by-step instructions along with subsidized toilet paper.

So, in other words, nothing would change from the present situation?

Funny how many of you are so concerned about the violence that the US helped to create. Violence that the US government knew would spread to the border. Violence that has been ongoing for sometime. This violence didn't start with OBama., nor did this immigration problem.

I mean look at the problems detailed in the article below.

Unfortunately, the violence that is attendant to the drug trade in Mexico is spilling over the border into U.S. towns, like San Diego, California and Eagle Pass, Texas. Last summer, ranchers along the Texas/Mexico Border reported they were besieged by drug organizations smuggling coc aine and marijuana across their property--fences were torn down, livestock butchered and shots were fired at the ranchers' homes at night. Ranchers reported seeing armed patrols in Mexico with night vision equipment, hand-held radios and assault rifles that protected a steady stream of smugglers back packing marijuana and coc aine into the United States. The problem became so acute that the State of Texas and the Federal government sent support in the form of additional U.S. Border Patrol Agents, DEA Special Agents, Officers from the Texas Department of Public Safety and the Texas National Guard.

www.justice.gov...

Does the US really need this kind of violence along its border?

Hell NO. But is sealing up the border really going to solve this problem?











BTW, the article is from 1997.




Let's be realistic and honest.

The border is more secure today than at any prior time.

Prove Napolitano wrong

"Over the past 18 months, this administration has devoted more resources—including manpower, technology and infrastructure—to the Southwest border than at any point in America's history," said Secretary Napolitano. "We are committed to further bolstering our cooperation with our state, local and tribal law enforcement partners as we continue to implement strong, smart and effective enforcement strategies along our borders and throughout the nation."

www.dhs.gov...

DHS factsheet

We currently have about 18,000 Border Patrol agents, just about every alphabet agency represented, tons of law enforcement who are well aware of what is going on at the border, and a government that is sponsoring the Mexican war on drugs.

So to say that the US is doing nothing about the Southern Border is BS.

They are doing something. Many people may not like the progress or feel they are not doing a good enough job, but that still doesn't add up to the US doing nothing.

So,what will it take to have a secure border and by whose definiton of secure do we go by?

But border security is in the eye of the beholder. There's no agreed-on definition of what constitutes a secure border and no budget for how much more to spend to achieve it.

Is it when the entire southern border of nearly 2,000 miles is fenced, or double-fenced? Is it when illegal immigration arrests are at zero or close to it? Is it when everyone who crosses the border can be identified? Is it when Army troops are sent to the border, as they were after Mexican revolutionary Pancho Villa raided a New Mexico border town in 1916, or when the number of Border Patrol agents has quintupled?

www.chron.com...

How much money are you willing to invest and what measurements, objectives, or goals will we use to gauge success?

I agree on border security but my border security entails all the ways that one can enter the US, not just the Southern Border.

Should we really throw everything into the Southern Border while leaving our other borders basically unguarded?

Is this really about protecting America from bad guys or just about keeping illegals out? IMO, it is the latter.

And if it is the latter, I think it would be a lot easier and less costly for the US to address this issue by denying job opportunity to illegals.

E-verify has already seen a huge jump in business and I'm sure you guys won't mind that National ID anyway in order to take care of this illegal immigrant issue.

As far as the violence on our border, I suggest 3 things to ease the problem.

1) Get cartels to make peace. The conspiracy side of me says the US is playing them against each other.

2) Get US to change mind about war on drugs. Seriously, despite the money, time, and lives wasted in Colombia, Mexico, Afghanistan, etc.... drugs are still flowing.

3) Take over Mexico. Now you will have about 110 million Mexicans waiting for their US citizenship.



I leave you all with this quote about Border Security.

There is no "correct" definition of border security. It depends on what price the U.S. as a country is willing to pay for incremental gains in apprehensions and deterrence. But unless we begin a sensible debate on what a secure border means, and how to get there, badly needed immigration legislation will forever be hostage to an elusive goal.

www.cfr.org...

reply to post by jam321

This violence didn't start with OBama., nor did this immigration problem.

No, it did not. However, it needs to end. The minuscule efforts by the last several administrations are truly a joke. It is time to take serious action. If it means placing machine gun nests every 500 feet or so, then let it be done. This is now a full scale two pronged invasion- illegals stealing jobs and drug lords transporting drugs and crime.
We CANNOT continue to allow 20 million illegals to stretch our infrastructure, jails, prisons and economy to the limit.

These illegals are breaking laws, laws which administration after administration have FAILED to enforce.

How can the government expect citizens to obey laws when THE GOVERNMENT ITSELF fails to obey and enforce them?

You know with all the suggestions to lay mines on the border and issuing shoot to kill...why not just support nuking Mexico?

As if those saying these things already would even disagree with that proposal.

reply to post by SpectreDC

You know with all the suggestions to lay mines on the border and issuing shoot to kill...why not just support nuking Mexico?

Machine guns on the border would be used on criminals trying to illegally cross the border, after being warned by signs that use of deadly force is authorized, unlike nuclear weapons which are indiscriminate.