100% PRO WAR = 0% INTELLIGENT

Lets just say US and UK does nothing Then Something happened, like Saddam has a bomb and throws it at someone , then the UN word say why didn't do something either way is US and UK between to Fronts. What they are doing now is the right thing.

Originally posted by apsaps184
Lets just say US and UK does nothing Then Something happened, like Saddam has a bomb and throws it at someone , then the UN word say why didn't do something either way is US and UK between to Fronts. What they are doing now is the right thing.

Hey thats also a good point.

But i have to say once again, they can do it other ways, use special forces, dont kill the good-ish people on the ground, i mean when (and this does not count Russia)Something in one of our countries is put under threat like say parliament buildings were taken by terrorist forces, they would not just fly a big plane over and bomb the whole building, no they would send in the boys to do it right, making sure the good guys came out and the bad guys are carried out (and I would support such an action).

Unless your from Russia and then you all get gassed

If you want to have a discussion with only certin people than go find a facist site cause this isn't one. Here ATS we don't single out others as unworthy or even unsavory to our company. We welcome anyone who chooses to post as long as they obey the rules. So the question you must ask yourself is are you obeying the rules???????

This is pathetic, the mod who warned me in this thread is standing by the warning, I know I will be doing just what they want be I am leaving this site and this forum.

Freedom of speech is not alive on this forum, its like 1940�s Germany here and I am sick of it, and at this rate you wont be able to carry a good conversation on this forum because everyone will just be talking the one line OR afraid to talk at all. It�s a joke.

This reminds me of the secret police = the mods on this forum.

PD, you have to realize that in a war people die. And what you said about removing the USA's weapons. That will never happen, the USA is the only country in the world best suited to have these weapons and basicly run the show. Like I said before if you hate the site please do us all a favor and leave.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.-edmund burke

saddam is evil, now i'm sure alot of people are gonna criticize me for implying that GWB and TB are good men, so all you pro-bush people help me out

I do think he is mind controlled by evil people. If you knew how important Baghdad is to Satanists, then maybe you might think the same things too. The problem with Bush is he is a religious radical and a crusader. Now that maybe be a honorable and rightous thing in his mind or your's maybe, but me personally, I resent such civil dispute. This war in Iraq is not about freedom for Iraqi's or freedom for American's from weapons of mass destruction. It is a little more personal. I mean look at North Korea. They are and have been for many years now violators of international law with their so-called illegal weapons production and black market trading.(like we don't do that too!!!!!!) Not to mention the oppression of it's own people, which mind you has been going on now for over 50 years, as oppossed to Saddam's 25 years oppression of his peoples. Yes these are regimes that need to go, but all I'm saying is why NOW!!!!

Why not 50 and 25 or 30 years ago????? Well, that's simple. MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY, MONEY!!!!
That's why. Everyone profitted off of the people's oppressions throught their defense companies and arms dealers. The whole episode was exposed, from our stand point when the Iran-Contra Affair hit the fan. Some people today act like that never happened. Well that adds up, considering the fact that Oliver(baby killer) North has his own news program on Fox News. By the way, that Agency completely sold out. Fox is fake. Just like all the rest. So my opinion on Bush is that he is a great warrior and a devout man, but he is a man who has been manipulated into manipulating his own people.....mmmm.................just like Saddam. You See?

Abraham Virtue, you are completely out of your mind, in no way possible can you compare Bush to Sad'am. The reason we are acting NOW, is because Sad'am Hussein and his regime pose a huge threat to the Middle East. If we don't act now, Sad'am will be launching SCUDS into Israel while Kofi and the UN fiddle their thumbs, much like what happened in Sudan and few years back. Personally I think we, the US, wont give France the chance to even veto the new resolution and will drop out of the UN possibly and be at war any time form next Tue-Thru. Tomorrow Bush heads over to the Azores for the summit, this just shows that he is trying to go that extra mile to avoid war, but right now, war looks pretty imminent. Only time will tell what is to occur....

I'm not saying Bush is the equivalent to Saddam. I am saying that they are no different when it comes to the fact that they were both mind manipulated. That doesn't mean they act or think the same. Nor does it mean that they work together. All I am saying is someone else is controlling them. That's all. That doesn't mean I don't like Bush, or Saddam for that matter. Personally, I could careless what they do with their own time, as long as it doesn't interfere with the lives of others. That is why I would like to see them both put in jail. They both are criminals and there should be no exception for these men, especially George Bush. He is complicant in the deaths of millions opon millions. My personal estimates are 30-50 million people, but who knows I'm probably not even near the amount that it really is. Just think about the sanctions, on countries like Iraq, North Korea, Somalia, and even Pakistan. That is enough right their to make at least 10 million deaths, probably even 90 million. North Korea has suffered many years, so has Iraq. When their suffering is supposedly lifted from the country by the United States, it all of the sudden becomes the country learders themselves who were responsible for the food shortages. It is the Americans and their puppet New World Order wanna be the UN who said this and that can't go here and there. If you look all this up, you will see that some of our actions were outragous acts of complicant deprivation and starvation among other nations, who were a THREAT TO US. IT"S NOT BECUASE THE PEOPLE DESERVE ANYTHING THERE, FOR IF THAT WERE THE CASE THEN WE WOULDN'T HAVE STARVED THOSE PEOPLE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Please understand that I am not angry with Bush or am I angry with those who support him. I just realize that the Bush Agenda is no different then the Brotherhood Agenda, the Brotherhood of Babylon. Now if you would research the Iran-Iraq wars a little more, and if you would reseach the rules and regulations of the sanctions we imposed on other countries and you could tell me how our government wasn't guilty of war crimes and genocide in those instances, than I will change my position on Bush. But until I see that he isn't in harmony with God's plan for unity and humanity then I will continue to believe he is on the Dark Side. Yes, star wars stuff, that what this world is. I think the Dark Side is pulling us into it's traps, and it is only a matter of time until the Clone Wars begin. You See????????????

100% PRO WAR

All these anti war protestors say, yes lets get rid of sadam, but not by war! That all very well and good but how else do you wanna get rid of him, walk up to him in his palace and say, oh sadam old chum, would you mind stepping into our bullet proof riot truck and let us take you back to the US for a public murder? There's a good chap! Who's with me!!??

============================


I like it!!! It's just crazy enough, it might just work!!!

I say we get Sean Connery to act as spokesman on behalf of us all, and he would sound oh, so cool offering up that very dialog to old Sodamn Insame himself, don't you agree old man?

Jiggly good!!



[Edited on 16-3-2003 by USMC Harrier]

I read an interview yesterday with Scott Ritter, one of the original UN inspectors team. He was responsible for investigating Iraqi concealment in relation to all 3 branches of WMD. Uneasy2k, Gazrok, I suggest you read it.

He basically says that Iraq has been disarmed, any anthrax, VX, sarin, etc. that he may have hidden will have degraded by now and be totally useless, not only that but the 1998 'crisis' when Iraq kicked out the inspectors was manufactured to allow justification for operation Desert Fox. I was impressed by his knowledge about the situation, and am inclined to believe what he says.

In which case, this war cannot be about WMD, and it's not about terrorism, and it's definitely not about humanitarian worries. Which means this war is about US influence in the Middle East... pure and simple.

I hope Bush and Blair do end up in front of war crime commissions over this. It's certainly the end of Blair's political career. The only thing that could change this is the finding of a massive WMD production capability after the war in Iraq... and I seriously doubt that's going to happen. Will the Bush apologists round on him if that's the case? I doubt it.

Originally posted by dom
I read an interview yesterday with Scott Ritter, one of the original UN inspectors team. He was responsible for investigating Iraqi concealment in relation to all 3 branches of WMD. Uneasy2k, Gazrok, I suggest you read it.
He basically says that Iraq has been disarmed, any anthrax, VX, sarin, etc. that he may have hidden will have degraded by now and be totally useless,

I wish when you ask somebody to read something, you could provide a link. Anyway, I found the interview and first of all he never mentions VX or Sarin. Second, he said that liquid bulk anthrax deteriorates after three years and to his knowledge there were no facilities producing it when he left in '98, but that it would only take six months to rebuild such facilities. To quote the interviewer: ASMAN: "1998. You yourself said it would take six months to rebuild those facilities. So they could have built that. They could have built that four, six times over. RITTER: They could have. "ASMAN: I gotta stop you Scott. You just said we don't know that, we don't know that they didn't produce powdered form of anthrax. How do you know? How?
RITTER: No, we do know that they didn't produce powdered form of anthrax. Because we inspected the facility, we did the testing on the facility.
ASMAN: It could not have been a facility you didn't know about?
RITTER: Well, now you're going off the map."

I'm not very convinced, it's just my opinion that if people don't think that he has hidden weapons and are still producing them, they're kidding themself. He definitely has the capability and the money, and he did it before? What do you think has changed in this man's brain? He is insane, and he must be stopped.

www.foxnews.com...

Sorry, I have been trying to find a link, but the interview I read was published in a book entitled something like "Iraq, the facts the Bush administration doesn't want you to know."

I'll keep searching for a link, but the one you provide is not the interview I was reading. In fact, that interview seems to be aggressively anti-Scott Ritter. The one I read was a more balanced interview, although some of the points are similar.

Anyway, even if they could reconstitute the weapons programs, it's not really concievable that weapons inspectors would not be able to find evidence of this. I haven't seen any yet, and they haven't suggested there is any.

The interesting thing about Scott Ritter, is he says that inspections work, even though Saddam was actively getting in the way...

An article from Scott Ritter where he talks about the war in a major UK newspaper...

www.guardian.co.uk...

And the full title of the book is...
"War on Iraq : What team Bush doesn't want you to know."

I can't find a transcript on the internet, but the book is only 75 pages long, so pop down to your nearest library...

I realize just how far Ritter has gone for his country and for the rest of the world. The man is a hero. He should be given the Noble Peace Prize not Carter. Anyway's no matter what Ritter says, inspections can never work, because we could never fully search all places possible to hide such weapons and capability. If the production is stopped then the evidence and the bloody hands both absorb into the system and the produced weapons can be hidden. For those of you that think they can't then just think about this: Iraq is the size of California, more or less. So the inspectors have to cover that much land mass in order to clear the country of weapons of mass destruction, right??? Well, just imagine the Death Valley region of California for a moment. This area of desert is so vast, that it blows one's mind. Now just think about the Yosemite National Forrest. I heard you could roam Yosemite for your whole life and still miss some parts of it. So that means that NO ONE could verify if anything is or isn't in a region that large. So to me, Ritter saying they have nothing is stupid, but It doesn't make him a traitor in my eyes, and I still regard him as one of the most trust worthy sources for infromation regarding Iraq and it's compliance. So the debate goes on, even though the war is within hours of begining. Can I ask a favor........can we move on now???????

Let's talk post war issues, like for example:
1--possible geocide on both sides.
2--Kurdish and Shia independence
3--tribal warfare among the various tribes
4--puppet governments
5--Turkish backlash on the Kurdish uprising
6--Iran and other neighboring states reactions

Just anything that isn't going to be useless to talk about in a few days. Can we do that??? Can we start planning for the next move??? Please stop the madness, let's get real and move on and keep moving with the pace of the rest of the world.

I think it's important to say that inspections can work. The point Ritter makes is that Iraq doesn't have the ability to produce powdered anthrax, so the only thing they can hide is liquid anthrax which will degrade. That means that if they wanted to keep the availability of weaponised anthrax over a period of years they would have to have a hidden anthrax production facility.

You just can't hide that amount of infrastructure.

Anyway, post-war discussions may be the next thing to talk about for all of you Americans, but in Britain democracy still stands a minimal but noticeable chance of stopping British involvement over the next few days. Here's hoping.

You live in Britian? Well, those who do know that Iraq was carved up by Britian, and oppressed by Britian.(who wasn't) So I would have to disagree. This war will happen, and will be over soon. Maybe not sweetly soon, more like suddenly death.

One reason why the British will always have a stake there: The Intelligence Agencies. MONEY.
Another reason: Business tycoons. MONEY. You See????

Iraq was not carved up by Britain. Iraq was created by Britain using an astounding lack of knowledge about the local populations.

As for Britain oppressing the area, sue me. Britain also created Israel, created the first government of Iraq (with a King at it's head) and has been involved in the Middle East ever since. The British Empire did a lot of bad things too, but we've learned our lesson. It's difficult to sit back and watch the US make the same mistakes. That said, doesn't look like Blair learned that lesson very well...

By the way, I'm not attacking you or British people. I am attacking your governments policy. That's all. One more thing, you didn't really explain why they didn't carve it up?????

By the way, I'm not attacking you or British people. I am attacking your government's policy. That's all. One more thing, you didn't really explain why they didn't carve it up?????